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Old 04-03-2020, 12:30 PM
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A government that is afraid to ask people to stay home is not going to impose martial law.
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:14 PM
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So basically what we have now is "Martial Law Light". i see a LOT of local Governments violating Constitutional law. Fannin County GA is refusing to allow people who OWN property there and pay property taxes there to enter the county from outside if you were in a shelter in place location.New Hampshire is going door to door. The question is how far will they go? how hard will they push?
No, that’s not the question. Not at all. That question is answered by basic common sense. The real question is what are you (and you and you and you) going to do about it?
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:16 PM
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A government that is afraid to ask people to stay home is not going to impose martial law.
One of the “it can’t happen here” people.

Why are you even on a survivalist/prepper website at all?
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Old 04-03-2020, 01:21 PM
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One of the “it can’t happen here” people.
I'm not saying it CAN'T happen here. I'm saying that it won't over the present crisis.

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Why are you even on a survivalist/prepper website at all?
I came here to get ideas on how to deal with power and water outages caused by snow and storms... I stay for the sparkling conversation.
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Old 04-03-2020, 03:26 PM
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I'm not saying it CAN'T happen here. I'm saying that it won't over the present crisis.



I came here to get ideas on how to deal with power and water outages caused by snow and storms... I stay to be *** MOD EDIT***

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Old 04-03-2020, 03:59 PM
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I have been under martial law and trust me......this is not even close. I remember (hurricane katrina) military being out at every intersection, weapons drawn, with shoot on site orders if curfew was broken. Thant being said, it would not surprise me if we end up under martial law. There are some people that simply just wont listen and self-isolate or stay at home
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Old 04-03-2020, 05:40 PM
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I have been under martial law and trust me......this is not even close. I remember (hurricane katrina) military being out at every intersection, weapons drawn, with shoot on site orders if curfew was broken. Thant being said, it would not surprise me if we end up under martial law. There are some people that simply just wont listen and self-isolate or stay at home
That was one city. They don't have enough resources for most major cities.
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:17 PM
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all your life you have heard "it can't happen here" and here we are watching it happen
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Old 04-03-2020, 06:33 PM
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A government that is afraid to ask people to stay home is not going to impose martial law.
Down here in AZ-land, our dear Gov. Douchey extended the stay-at-home order through the end of April. There is rumor police will start stopping people to ask them their reason for being out or if they are part of the essential groups. If not, could be looking at a Class 1 misdemeanor and a $2500 fine.

I am part of the essential category. My company badge stays with me at all times.

Mrs. AZ_HighCountry is part of the essential category. She has company letter on company letterhead signed by a company officer.
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:24 PM
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Down here in AZ-land, our dear Gov. Douchey extended the stay-at-home order through the end of April. There is rumor police will start stopping people to ask them their reason for being out or if they are part of the essential groups. If not, could be looking at a Class 1 misdemeanor and a $2500 fine.

I am part of the essential category. My company badge stays with me at all times.

Mrs. AZ_HighCountry is part of the essential category. She has company letter on company letterhead signed by a company officer.
I understand you feel your liberties restricted. And they are being restricted, no doubt.

But martial law is a completely different matter.

In the US the only realistic example in the last half century has been in NOLA during Katrina.

Outside of that you would have needed to be in Baghdad to get some idea.

When martial law comes you can forget about police and Miranda being your intermediaries. Police and courts are civil authorities. With martial law the military officer on the spot is your judge, jury, and executioner.


I'm seeing enough comments on various posts to think that simply curtailing civil liberties is being equated to martial law. These assertions are false because martial law is so extreme. If you need a better description of what we are seeing build up is better termed as a police state. If you want to grumble about the changes happening then complaining about the growing police state is a legit gripe.

Increased police action, mild oppression, curtailed civil liberties, stronger civil punishments, this is police state action, not martial law.
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Old 04-03-2020, 08:28 PM
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So basically what we have now is "Martial Law Light". i see a LOT of local Governments violating Constitutional law. Fannin County GA is refusing to allow people who OWN property there and pay property taxes there to enter the county from outside if you were in a shelter in place location.New Hampshire is going door to door. The question is how far will they go? how hard will they push?
So NONRESIDENTS (carpetbaggers). Voting eligibility/citizenship is based on residence not an income/property ownership test.
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Old 04-03-2020, 10:31 PM
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Old moldy topic.

This "lite" version is about all they can truly do and get full civilian cooperation.

If they tighten the screws more they reveal their limitation. Manpower.

It would take every service member and every federal man issued a gun just to lock down the East Coast without crossing Appalachia. The idea they could extend a true lockdown to the area east of the Mississippi would take them a decade of recruiting an army the size of the PLA. Local LE is own by the local voters, not the feds.

They could start in Boston and start putting one armed vehicle at every state or national highway intersection going south, and run out of vehicles once they reached Florida, much less try to invest to the west or control surface streets.

America is really huge.

It took almost the entirety of the US military to poorly control a nation about the size of Texas, during the Iraq War. And the military had easier ROEs there than they would have here.

Fact is the military still has no good plan yet for military control of Megacities (those over 10 million). We have two already and two on the cusp. The military has no clue how to control that much dense packed space without killing people by busload every minute.

https://api.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/351235.pdf


On a large scale, this emergency rule is the best they can do for the nation as a whole. More pressure will be limited to zip code style sections to keep insurrection from getting out of hand and infecting other areas.
And? Martial Law is about striking fear in the hearts of the populace. It doesnt matter that the people know that the government has only 10% of the personnel they would need to implement martial law; the only thing that matters is that each individual be afraid that he would be individually imperiled by his disobedience.

It is always the case that the oppressors are the ones in a precarious position. Think of the ancient Spartans, who kept 10 times their own number of subject people as helots, or of the terrorized businesses under the "protection" of the Mafia, or of the blacks in South Africa under Apartheid, or of the slave owners on large plantations in the Antebellum South. In all of those cases, had the subjugated rebelled en masse, they would have prevailed, but they were kept subjugated by the fear of being the only one who rebelled.

Worse yet, many slaves come to love their chains. They enjoy being spared the burden of being self-responsible. Just look at the millennial and Gen-Z Bernie Bros, voting themselves into slavery.

Martial Law is a psychological oppression, not a military one.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:01 PM
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And? Martial Law is about striking fear in the hearts of the populace. It doesnt matter that the people know that the government has only 10% of the personnel they would need to implement martial law; the only thing that matters is that each individual be afraid that he would be individually imperiled by his disobedience.

It is always the case that the oppressors are the ones in a precarious position. Think of the ancient Spartans, who kept 10 times their own number of subject people as helots, or of the terrorized businesses under the "protection" of the Mafia, or of the blacks in South Africa under Apartheid, or of the slave owners on large plantations in the Antebellum South. In all of those cases, had the subjugated rebelled en masse, they would have prevailed, but they were kept subjugated by the fear of being the only one who rebelled.

Worse yet, many slaves come to love their chains. They enjoy being spared the burden of being self-responsible. Just look at the millennial and Gen-Z Bernie Bros, voting themselves into slavery.

Martial Law is a psychological oppression, not a military one.
In reading your response you have a lot of very good and valid points. Especially when you point out how these millenials, Gen-Z are jumping for joy with Bernie. They would sell their rights cheaply and not bat an eye because someone offered them a few scraps for "Free" They have never really had to fight for anything at least as the generations before them knew what real struggles meant. Each day I try and thank God for those people who were not willing to simply subjugate themselves. Our founding fathers knew this well and had some amazing God given vision into our future.

One thing is for sure we are going to see a lot of changes come about as a result of all of this. Some may be good as a return to stronger family values. More and more people are now having to sit together at the dinner table vs. going out to eat. They are having to work a little harder as it's not so easy to press a button on the internet and get instant services. One of the main things I find absolutely fascinating is all of these huge sports stars and worthless over paid entertainers are becoming a whole lot less important. The people that are becoming increasingly important are those lower wage earners, the grocery clerks, the trash collectors, power/water technicians etc. Prior to this they were just a face in the crowd most of these self indulgent fools never bothered to give the time of day to. Watching Rome burn certainly has some good things that can certainly come out as a result.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:17 PM
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The sheriff says you are under quarantine and can not leave your house !

Ask him to show you a court order .

If he says there is not a court order, tell him to step aside.

Without a court order, you are not under a legal quarantine .

Unless martial law is enacted by either the State government or the federal government, the governor or the President can not enforce any order.

Now , what should you as a good citizen do?

That is an entirely different question !
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:27 PM
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Martial Law is a psychological oppression, not a military one.
Only because you let it be that way.

The civil authorities do not have the authority to impose military grade control.

You still have Miranda. Probable cause is still necessary. You have the right to a lawyer before you speak to authorities. You have the right to face your accusers in a court of law. You get none of those with martial law.

You are using the same mechanism to inflate the perception of oppression that you claim the government is doing.

If you yell it loud enough you generate the same kind of fear that you claim the government is causing.

The difference is only the agenda behind who is doing it. In this case, who's motives are more self serving?


The realities aside, only you are responsible for your fears and your willingness to inflame others.

The only oppression I see is an increased civil oppression.

Clearly, you have never been under full blown martial law where the rifles are real. The street corner judgments of life or death are too.
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:47 PM
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The sheriff says you are under quarantine and can not leave your house !

Ask him to show you a court order .

If he says there is not a court order, tell him to step aside.

Without a court order, you are not under a legal quarantine .

Unless martial law is enacted by either the State government or the federal government, the governor or the President can not enforce any order.

Now , what should you as a good citizen do?

That is an entirely different question !
That is not true. If a state of emergency has been declared all sorts of other laws get enacted. They are enforceable with legal standing and you certainly can be fined or charged with a crime. You might not like it and can argue against it all you want but as of right now it's legal standing. The better course of action would to be where they are not. Use good common sense and don't fall on your sword to prove you can be out in public. Worry about that later. Posting things like you did might give some uninformed folks bad ideas which would lead to worse outcomes. Of course they could always say in their trial "BillM" from the internet said you had no authority unless you had a warrant....
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Old 04-03-2020, 11:51 PM
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Only because you let it be that way.

The civil authorities do not have the authority to impose military grade control.

You still have Miranda. Probable cause is still necessary. You have the right to a lawyer before you speak to authorities. You have the right to face your accusers in a court of law. You get none of those with martial law.

You are using the same mechanism to inflate the perception of oppression that you claim the government is doing.

If you yell it loud enough you generate the same kind of fear that you claim the government is causing.

The difference is only the agenda behind who is doing it. In this case, who's motives are more self serving?


The realities aside, only you are responsible for your fears and your willingness to inflame others.

The only oppression I see is an increased civil oppression.

Clearly, you have never been under full blown martial law where the rifles are real. The street corner judgments of life or death are too.
Believe it or not, I think both of you have the same thing in mind but are just arriving at that using different paths.
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Old 04-04-2020, 12:02 AM
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hate to say it but if it goes too far, a lot of NG members will earn that combat action ribbon...
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Old 04-04-2020, 12:05 AM
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People who have never served in the military have little clue what military grade control is.

Imagine visiting the beach one weekend, getting a little sunburned, and be less eager to do strenuous movement. No biggie, right? If while shying away from stretching on Monday you get caught and you get prosecuted for destruction of government property. If the commanding officer has a bad day you could end up in the stockade for a month.

Don't like your job? Don't like where you live? Don't like your boss? Don't like what's for dinner? Don't like that they didn't even bother feeding you? Forgot to pay you. Worked you all day and then made you stand watching a door all night?

Just tough luck. Even being mad about it can have real repercussions.

This is a job where the command DIE IN PLACE is a legitimate order. Rear guard action is military speak for a few of you stay here to fight and die while the rest of us run like hell and get away. Thank you for your service.....

Did I mention not liking your boss? Everyone who outranks you can be your boss if they choose. Get mad at that lazy jerk who refuses to fix the gear your regular boss tells you to get using and if that jerk outranks you and doesn't like your attitude then you are in deep trouble. He'll tell your boss and you get in trouble twice. First for disrespecting someone who outranks you and also for not getting the equipment fixed.

Double jeopardy? Triple jeopardy? Quadruple? No such thing.

Constitutional rights? Nope. You signed them away on day one.

And remember that you face all of this for years on end because they have a contract. There is no time out or safe space. No breathers. No bad hair days. No changing of the mind. And definitely no pity.


So don't presume you actually understand the daily relentless grind of martial law unless you've stood in an AFEES (USMEPCOM now) and raised your right hand to swear your oath -or- you've been actually in it. Only US civvies with a clue were in NOLA.
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Old 04-04-2020, 03:27 AM
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Only because you let it be that way.

The civil authorities do not have the authority to impose military grade control.

You still have Miranda. Probable cause is still necessary. You have the right to a lawyer before you speak to authorities. You have the right to face your accusers in a court of law. You get none of those with martial law.

You are using the same mechanism to inflate the perception of oppression that you claim the government is doing.

If you yell it loud enough you generate the same kind of fear that you claim the government is causing.

The difference is only the agenda behind who is doing it. In this case, who's motives are more self serving?


The realities aside, only you are responsible for your fears and your willingness to inflame others.

The only oppression I see is an increased civil oppression.

Clearly, you have never been under full blown martial law where the rifles are real. The street corner judgments of life or death are too.
I know that you are using the second person singular "you" to mean the third person singular "one," but I am 'that guy' who makes it a regular pastime to try to be a test case for this kind of crap. Sadly, they never take the bait, preferring, instead, to harass more compliant people.
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