Why this virus is so serious. - Page 6 - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-23-2020, 09:39 PM
txprep txprep is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,531
Thanks: 3,274
Thanked 13,121 Times in 4,597 Posts
Default



Advertise Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Italy has had somewhere between 500-800 deaths daily for a week now, growing exponentially. This just started 1 month ago. No natural or logical end in sight.

I'm not the smartest person, but 500-800 deaths daily for a year, low to high:
Low: 500x365=182,500
High: 800x365=292,000

So just at this rate, if they maintain it, this will kill ~3-5 times more than the flu in Italy. And the rate is accelerating, there and in most of the world.

Doubling. Tripling. Quadrupling.

They had no deaths from this a month ago. Now they are on pace to triple or more flu deaths at the current, rapidly growing, rate.

Are people really this slow or am I living in some fantasy world where folks can no longer do math?
Well the math is easy, sometimes the interpretation and assumptions are hard. I happen to agree with you on this one.

Without measures it would infect virtually the entire population. At a 1% death rate, that is upwards of 600K for italy, in a year. It likely would be higher since the hospitals would be swamped and people would be dying at home.


suffocating to death over 10 days seems like a really bad way to die.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to txprep For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 09:41 PM
txprep txprep is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,531
Thanks: 3,274
Thanked 13,121 Times in 4,597 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Ashley View Post
I was going to post a length reply but I'll summarize it here.

People are going to die, but the instability caused by the economic situation could create even more global instability.

The effects are "massive" while a short term shutdown is doable, we still need to look to the future and express a concrete plan for movin forward a month from now 3 months from now 6 months from now. Most information is blind information, panicked emergency responses, and reactionary measures by public health authorities.

We are stil seeing a wind down into a quarentine phase that that person mention the OMS was going to do. Y
Again you can watch what is happening or you can respond to what will happen.
What is happening today doesn't really matter anymore, prudent people will plan for the wost and hope for the best.

The world has to go into a lockdown. The sooner a full lockdown happens and a system for people getting emergency food and water or accessing medical care such as using a 911 for emergency or 112 ect.. some dedicated number for covid specific emergencies health care requests... as well as deploying emergency medication for those ill with covid.

We already know chlroquin causes blindness if dosed too much and can effect eyesight. IT isn't a new drug.

People need a way of volunteering for clinical trials if they are positive for covid. Likewise the new covid treatment equipment and facilities need to be seperate from hospitals where people with prexisting conditions are cared for. Exposing all medical personnel at a site to it is just nonsensical as well providing for transmission to the ill is also nonsensical.

Supplies need to be aquired for gov facilities like prisons and they need to lock them down for a couple months.

Essentially they are letting this grow to facilitate for more restrictions but more restrictions would have stopped the growth.

Govs need to come together and agree to a lockdown. National borders are all closing airports are all closing but the next effect on that is massive damage to the global system.

I still think the best solution is to power through this and cut our losses, the instability will be far worse in the long run due to loss of innovation and development a loss of a year or two to save 10 million lives will probably be the worse of two evils.

Admiralty law is very simple sacrifice the few to save the many.

I could be one of dead my family could be the dead, but if the plan is herd immunity then we all have to get it anyway, and it would make sense to rotate in people by their birth year for exposure for those who wanted quarentine to end instead of being a 3 month lock down they would be exposed to a viral innoculation low dose exposure to build immnity and given antivirals if required to manage itthen once they have antibodies they are allowed to resume normal activities. Anyone with the antibodies present would be given mdical clearance to resume activities unless they became infected again.
this is my preferred method as well. It is completely politically inviable. The UK started to go down this path and were lambasted by the international media. No one has the leadership and cojones to do it.
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2020, 09:47 PM
txprep txprep is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,531
Thanks: 3,274
Thanked 13,121 Times in 4,597 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonya1 View Post
I don't usually agree with you on much, but that's actually a good idea. I was just talking with husband about antibodies, and the need to test people after the recover from the virus , to see if they have them
there is a 100% chance this will be done. Everyone will want to know if they are immune so they can go back into public.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to txprep For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 09:56 PM
txprep txprep is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,531
Thanks: 3,274
Thanked 13,121 Times in 4,597 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCbuckeye22 View Post
Exactly!

IMO some of the greatest freedoms as Americans will eventually be the seed that killed us. Such as overeating (diabetes, heart disease, etc), and also folks not listening to experts on social distancing and still going out. I also see a chunk of the population lying about having a sick on at home or them being sick in order to keep working, therefore spreading the virus. We as Americans aren't disciplined like other countries where the government will take them out and put a bullet in their head for lying to superiors.
I will take my freedom. There is an alternate path which is 1% of the Us population dies in 1-2 years. That is 3.3 million people die.

Mostly people with comorbidities. I think the US will easily recover from that. I think we will not easily recover from the govt overreach and loss of freedom that has already happened. People are welcoming our govt overlords with open arms. The thing is anyone that is scared can just stay home and they will be safe. Anyone else that is foolish or not scared should be able to go out and take the risk.

The thing that everyone seems to be missing is that if you are scared, you have the option to stay home and isolate. You cannot be infected by the foolish person if you stay home and isolate. The media/govt scenario where the foolish person infects the elderly person wont happen, unless they are living in the same home or the elderly person is also out in public.

I disagree strongly with tryan about the seriousness of the infection, but I disagree with most other people about what we should be willing to do to reduce the death from the disease.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to txprep For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 10:43 PM
IC_Rafe IC_Rafe is offline
Perspective provider.
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,182
Thanks: 16,409
Thanked 8,270 Times in 3,371 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by txprep View Post
I will take my freedom. There is an alternate path which is 1% of the Us population dies in 1-2 years. That is 3.3 million people die.

Mostly people with comorbidities. I think the US will easily recover from that. I think we will not easily recover from the govt overreach and loss of freedom that has already happened. People are welcoming our govt overlords with open arms. The thing is anyone that is scared can just stay home and they will be safe. Anyone else that is foolish or not scared should be able to go out and take the risk.

The thing that everyone seems to be missing is that if you are scared, you have the option to stay home and isolate. You cannot be infected by the foolish person if you stay home and isolate. The media/govt scenario where the foolish person infects the elderly person wont happen, unless they are living in the same home or the elderly person is also out in public.

I disagree strongly with tryan about the seriousness of the infection, but I disagree with most other people about what we should be willing to do to reduce the death from the disease.
I see, so if you stay inside for the rest of your life, you're safe? If you live under strict quarantine procedures that is. Otherwise you have the right to have a foolish person knowingly infect you with a potentially deadly disease. Funny interpretation of "your rights end where mine begin, and vice versa".

Now true, that'll happen anyway. The mortality rate will be what it is (without a cure or vaccine anyway). The problem is the exponential growth. Every person infects several others. Will mean that it really starts going up fast once it gets going. It hasn't gotten going yet in the US. That means a lot of cases at one time, instead of over the 1-2 years you think it'll take, leading to overwhelmed hospitals, more sick nurses/doctors, less hospital care available still, unable to care for those who are needing hospitalization causing that 1% you hope for, to suddenly be a lot more.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to IC_Rafe For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 10:50 PM
MtnGal MtnGal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 43
Thanks: 10
Thanked 171 Times in 42 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by txprep View Post
I will take my freedom. There is an alternate path which is 1% of the Us population dies in 1-2 years. That is 3.3 million people die.

Mostly people with comorbidities. I think the US will easily recover from that. I think we will not easily recover from the govt overreach and loss of freedom that has already happened. People are welcoming our govt overlords with open arms. The thing is anyone that is scared can just stay home and they will be safe. Anyone else that is foolish or not scared should be able to go out and take the risk.

The thing that everyone seems to be missing is that if you are scared, you have the option to stay home and isolate. You cannot be infected by the foolish person if you stay home and isolate. The media/govt scenario where the foolish person infects the elderly person wont happen, unless they are living in the same home or the elderly person is also out in public.

I disagree strongly with tryan about the seriousness of the infection, but I disagree with most other people about what we should be willing to do to reduce the death from the disease.
Most people actually can’t do this. People are only doing it now because they can get unemployment if their place of employment closes. Even now, some places are falsely deeming themselves “essential” and so people that cannot afford to lose their jobs are forced in no matter how scared or at risk they are. Or maybe these people aren’t at risk but their husband, wife or child is..but still they cannot stay home.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MtnGal For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 11:02 PM
BCseacow83 BCseacow83 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 262
Thanks: 526
Thanked 896 Times in 216 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_Rafe View Post
I see, so if you stay inside for the rest of your life, you're safe? If you live under strict quarantine procedures that is. Otherwise you have the right to have a foolish person knowingly infect you with a potentially deadly disease. Funny interpretation of "your rights end where mine begin, and vice versa".

Now true, that'll happen anyway. The mortality rate will be what it is (without a cure or vaccine anyway). The problem is the exponential growth. Every person infects several others. Will mean that it really starts going up fast once it gets going. It hasn't gotten going yet in the US. That means a lot of cases at one time, instead of over the 1-2 years you think it'll take, leading to overwhelmed hospitals, more sick nurses/doctors, less hospital care available still, unable to care for those who are needing hospitalization causing that 1% you hope for, to suddenly be a lot more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGal View Post
Most people actually can’t do this. People are only doing it now because they can get unemployment if their place of employment closes. Even now, some places are falsely deeming themselves “essential” and so people that cannot afford to lose their jobs are forced in no matter how scared or at risk they are. Or maybe these people aren’t at risk but their husband, wife or child is..but still they cannot stay home.
There is no doubt in my mind many people who are of the, "Let's just get it over with, pull off the bandaid and oh well survival of the fittest," mindset would be singing a different tune if one thing changed.

If this thing killed primarily kids NO ONE would be arguing, absolutely no one. This should not matter one bit but it really seems it does.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to BCseacow83 For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 11:28 PM
IC_Rafe IC_Rafe is offline
Perspective provider.
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,182
Thanks: 16,409
Thanked 8,270 Times in 3,371 Posts
Default

Since my post was quoted, i'll post my edit seperately:

txprep: Just using your numbers: 3,3 mil dead, lets take that as the maximum amount of people needing hospitalization. From what i found, the US has 2770 hospital beds per million, so that's about 1 million for your entire population. You could handle that once if it's spread out over 3 months and geographically across the US probably. With the occupancy rate without the virus, you have 64% of all beds normally occupied. So suddenly you only have half the beds (if being optimistic) -> 6 months and spread out evenly. Can't spread it out over that period, and you get more deaths which could have been saved. If just 1% more than those who die need hospitalization, you need to get it spread out over a year, or you'll have more deaths. 1% more up to 3%: 10,8 million beds needed, so at 500000 beds free you need to spread it out over 2 years. Now, we're pretty sure the hospitalization rate will be higher than that. You see howmuch you need to spread it out to actually stop the hospitals from getting overwhelmed? If the rate of infection rises the way it's doing at the moment, you won't be able to stop it from spreading slowly enough. Remember that everyone who is hospitalized now has gotten sick 2 weeks ago. many were walking around till just a few days ago, possibly infecting other people, not even knowing they're sick. Many are doing the same now. If everyone infects 4-6 people as is believed at the moment, without measures, the world has a disaster in the making. It'll be more than the deaths directly from the virus. It'll be the deaths of many which could have been prevented under more normal circumstances.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to IC_Rafe For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 11:34 PM
Aceoky's Avatar
Aceoky Aceoky is offline
Outside the box
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: W. KY
Age: 57
Posts: 3,065
Thanks: 33,880
Thanked 7,698 Times in 2,163 Posts
Default

That is not accounting for the folks who will die from other causes if the system is pushed well over capacity ; that would have lived otherwise.
__________________
Read AND Follow the rules.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Aceoky For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 11:44 PM
BCseacow83 BCseacow83 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 262
Thanks: 526
Thanked 896 Times in 216 Posts
Default

The shortage of beds and equipment is only half the issue. Staff will be the real shortage. Even if no vents were needed and we had all our beds filled most hospitals are staffed lean, lean, lean. Fill the house and it would push the limits of the available staff.

Now start to eliminate staff due to illness and you will have major issues. Also the only ones who are trained, at least in my area, to run vents are RT's, MD's and Anesthesia/CRNA's. RT staff is run extra lean in my area. I hope to God this spreads itself out.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to BCseacow83 For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 11:47 PM
IC_Rafe IC_Rafe is offline
Perspective provider.
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,182
Thanks: 16,409
Thanked 8,270 Times in 3,371 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
That is not accounting for the folks who will die from other causes if the system is pushed well over capacity ; that would have lived otherwise.
Depending on the causes, yes. It's kinda accounted for in the 50% occupancy (also optimistically because 64% is the actual number).

If violence happens, it would cause even more stress on the system and add to the other numbers even more. Didn't even think of these factors till i read your post.

Of course something like that would be extremely hard to calculate. Wouldn't even know how to start that .

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCseacow83 View Post
The shortage of beds and equipment is only half the issue. Staff will be the real shortage. Even if no vents were needed and we had all our beds filled most hospitals are staffed lean, lean, lean. Fill the house and it would push the limits of the available staff.

Now start to eliminate staff due to illness and you will have major issues. Also the only ones who are trained, at least in my area, to run vents are RT's, MD's and Anesthesia/CRNA's. RT staff is run extra lean in my area. I hope to God this spreads itself out.
And another factor i had forgotten: 110000 ventilators in the US.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to IC_Rafe For This Useful Post:
Old 03-23-2020, 11:48 PM
DRH.1979's Avatar
DRH.1979 DRH.1979 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 258
Thanks: 4
Thanked 588 Times in 193 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by txprep View Post
I will take my freedom. There is an alternate path which is 1% of the Us population dies in 1-2 years. That is 3.3 million people die.

Mostly people with comorbidities. I think the US will easily recover from that. I think we will not easily recover from the govt overreach and loss of freedom that has already happened. People are welcoming our govt overlords with open arms. The thing is anyone that is scared can just stay home and they will be safe. Anyone else that is foolish or not scared should be able to go out and take the risk.

The thing that everyone seems to be missing is that if you are scared, you have the option to stay home and isolate. You cannot be infected by the foolish person if you stay home and isolate. The media/govt scenario where the foolish person infects the elderly person wont happen, unless they are living in the same home or the elderly person is also out in public.

I disagree strongly with tryan about the seriousness of the infection, but I disagree with most other people about what we should be willing to do to reduce the death from the disease.
Most people actually can’t do this. People are only doing it now because they can get unemployment if their place of employment closes. Even now, some places are falsely deeming themselves “essential” and so people that cannot afford to lose their jobs are forced in no matter how scared or at risk they are. Or maybe these people aren’t at risk but their husband, wife or child is..but still they cannot stay home.
You do realize that the number one goal of a species is survival, and to quote a famous song, the children are our future. Old people aren't.
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2020, 12:14 AM
ingyow's Avatar
ingyow ingyow is offline
Cross-eyed Target Shooter
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,094
Thanks: 6,713
Thanked 3,926 Times in 878 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost863 View Post
I hate to tell you but they were talking about just that this morning. It said Doctors were devising a plan on who they would and who they would not treat if they came into the hospitals with this virus, So it is you that is wrong in this particular case.
Yeppers! It's called TRIAGE. It's where you make the decision to save the "saveable" ones, not necessarily the worse ones. Those are left to sink or swim (usually die) on their own because resources, services or medications are limited or scarce.

It was devised by the military to salvage people off of the battlefield in a mass casualty situation.

Sometimes one has to make tough decisions. This is essentially what is going on in Italy, what went on in China and what WILL go on in the other affected areas as this thing progresses. We can try the best we can to prep for this and that is it.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ingyow For This Useful Post:
Old 03-24-2020, 01:59 AM
TRyan's Avatar
TRyan TRyan is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: California
Posts: 8,486
Thanks: 6,405
Thanked 29,189 Times in 6,823 Posts
Default

For a group that has been running around for the last few months saying the MSM lies and calling everything Fake News there sure are a lot of you who have quickly fallen in lock, stock and barrel quoting the very same fake news outlets as "experts".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost863 View Post
I hate to tell you but they were talking about just that this morning. It said Doctors were devising a plan on who they would and who they would not treat if they came into the hospitals with this virus, So it is you that is wrong in this particular case.
I can't really speak to your post because you have no links but I can say it is quite possible they were talking about IF or WHEN it reaches a point where the hospitals are overwhelmed. Anyone that has done triage before knows there becomes a point where you only save the savable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elek View Post
The article literally says he got an infection when he visited Cuba and when he came back to Italy almost recovered he got infected with COVID19 and now he's dead at 32 years old. Is it that difficult for you to use google translate? you know they've invented an integrated app for your browser for google translate.

You keep spewing fake numbers around without any backing, who told you any of these statistic? You been watching the news for your sources? Italy does not have the highest number of elderly in the world, again, I don't know where you got that information from but here's a quick check: Japan wins according to this, with Italy as second. Maybe your wording was incorrect, I'll give you that.
He got an infection in Cuba then got COVID19 while recovering at home in Italy. So he had a preexisting condition didn't he. Which is what I stated before. As for my "fake numbers" go back and look at my post. They are linked with the sources from the CDC. So believe what you want.

As for the oldest population in the world, I admit, I stand corrected. Italy is second not first. But take a look into why China and Italy are so closely connected because of the fashion industry and you'll see there are many factories that have been setup in Italy run by Chinese and they travel back and forth. Meaning Italy had a lot more exposure than Japan. Not to mention, depending on the source you use and how they figure their numbers Japan and Italy are not even top 10. But that's another rabbit hole for another time.

Quote:
Japan, Italy, and Germany top the list of the world’s oldest countries—if the data are based on the share of the population ages 65 and older. [1] But redefine “old” as the share of the population expected to live 15 years or less and Bulgaria, Latvia, and Ukraine top the list. Japan and Italy don’t even make the top 10 (see table).
https://www.prb.org/which-country-ha...st-population/

As for this entire conversation I am washing my hands of it (pun intended). I've decided to take a leave of this website because, honestly, the paranoia has become absurd. I'll come back around in a few months and we'll see who was right. I wish you all the best of luck.
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2020, 02:09 AM
TRyan's Avatar
TRyan TRyan is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: California
Posts: 8,486
Thanks: 6,405
Thanked 29,189 Times in 6,823 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zumhug View Post
Then shame on you, you should know better. But you know being a voly in a 2 horse town, you get all the action, right?



Again, wrong. They can and do turn people away. Legal or not, it happens and with a pandemic, NOT THE FLU, happening, it will be going on more.


They are 5th, so once again, you show how little you know.



I'm sorry, I'm not the one with the "nurse" wife and a "first responder" telling people this is just like the flu. When, we know, it is not.

The flu doesn't hit like this.



Yep, I'm the sheep, who's witnessing this personally. This is not the flu and you aren't smart enough to give advice.

So stop.


Hospitals "can and do turn people away". There are a miniscule amount of reasons they can or do turn people away. You saying it doesn't make it true. Back up your claim.

As I admitted in another post Japan does have the oldest population, but Italy is second. At least I can admit when I am wrong, even though first or second is not that far off.

I'm sorry you're not the one with a nurse wife because if you were you might have a better understanding of what the real story is rather than just the News giving you the hot spots to further their narrative. Remember "if it bleeds it leads".

Last edited by Aceoky; 03-24-2020 at 09:21 PM.. Reason: rm off topic/trolling
Quick reply to this message
Old 03-24-2020, 07:48 PM
SoJ_51's Avatar
SoJ_51 SoJ_51 is offline
SoJer
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Lost Angeles
Posts: 2,222
Thanks: 57,412
Thanked 5,872 Times in 1,851 Posts
Default ..In case you 'think again' / come back..

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
Hate to tell you but the MSM are the ones trying to freak everyone out ...
..a) Indeed, they Do play both sides of the fiddle, but.. it's not so much 'Fake news', as it is Shaped News.. Can you understand Why it is So critical for You / Your situ to distill-out that Difference right now? b) ie: Do you consider 'boots on the ground' Twitter-video / blog accounts, et al from the 'front lines' to be "MSM"? I sure don't.. and,

c) I didn't Point you to an 'MSM source', Mr. Ryan...

Quote:
Get back to me in 3 months when this is all over and we'll see why you're wrong.
..Sorry, but by then, we'll be in our Woods, hopefully inside of 2-3 more weeks, tops.. After that, my bet is it's gonna be Full On Hells Bells everywhere, m8... Hope ya'll can make it, especially with yer 'high risk situ', there... Wish ya the best..

.03
jd
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SoJ_51 For This Useful Post:
Old 03-25-2020, 06:15 AM
zumhug's Avatar
zumhug zumhug is offline
Paramedic and ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 3,053
Thanks: 7,845
Thanked 5,956 Times in 2,019 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by txprep View Post
suffocating to death over 10 days seems like a really bad way to die.
I don' think truer words have ever been spoken on the internet.

Add to that, you do it alone in seclusion because no one can be by you when you are on your death bed and quarantined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
I'm sorry you're not the one with a nurse wife because if you were you might have a better understanding of what the real story is rather than just the News giving you the hot spots to further their narrative. Remember "if it bleeds it leads".
Then the nurse's wife is steering you in the wrong direction. But again, working in a 2 horse town with nothing happening, perception is reality.

Where I'm at, things go on and bad happens. Our PD had 250 Quarantined and 2 deaths of 30/40 somethings today alone. That's the real situation.


As for the "fake news" angle and buying into it, this is an educated forum. There are enough people who are really responding and seeing the effect, watching the numbers rise and dealing with the sick to know that sometimes, the news is right. Whether you want to believe it or not, this is happening.
The Presidents's own people, military doctors and video posts around the world of doctors who are facing it undersand this isn't leading and bleeding or fake news.

I get it now, you like to argue no matter what the purpose of the argument is. But just know, you and your stance aren't coming out in the best light. I will thank you, you have been polite and tried to show why you think you have a grasp on this.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to zumhug For This Useful Post:
Old 03-25-2020, 01:50 PM
leadcounsel's Avatar
leadcounsel leadcounsel is offline
Comic, not your lawyer!
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 12,320
Thanks: 30,083
Thanked 40,636 Times in 9,406 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
That is not accounting for the folks who will die from other causes if the system is pushed well over capacity ; that would have lived otherwise.
Without urgent medical care, I'd have probably died 2 times and could have died 2 other times in the last 3 or 4 years. And I did need a surgery that was highly recommended for my long-term survival.

Yes, overrun healthcare is a serious concern.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to leadcounsel For This Useful Post:
Old 03-25-2020, 02:32 PM
hzuiel hzuiel is offline
Hiker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 749
Thanks: 133
Thanked 980 Times in 408 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
For a group that has been running around for the last few months saying the MSM lies and calling everything Fake News there sure are a lot of you who have quickly fallen in lock, stock and barrel quoting the very same fake news outlets as "experts".
I don't know about others but I've been getting my information from a variety of sources, not just or even primarily MSM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRyan View Post
As for this entire conversation I am washing my hands of it (pun intended). I've decided to take a leave of this website because, honestly, the paranoia has become absurd.
I am not encouraging paranoia, or panic, I am encouraging rational decision making based on data. If we can't survive a short shutdown economically it might say something about where we are at as a society, but the idea is to slow the rate of infection to keep the medical system from becoming overwhelmed. As well as to give time to test treatments, give some time to tool up manufacturing capability for medical supplies and equipment. It looks like we may need to make our own masks, ventilators, pharmaceuticals, etc. With enough good information companies can come up with strategies to space people apart, keep them from infecting one another, keep personnel who can work from home, at home.

The good version of how this goes is we avert the worst effects by reducing the infection rate, some anti-viral medications further help lower rates of icu care and survival rates, speed recovery from hospital to free up more beds, we get anti-body testing and find out who has had it and has some degree of immunity to it, so those people can go back to work, and in a year to 18 months we probably have a vaccine ready to be administered and hopefully shortly after we can expect things to begin to return to normal. Hopefully this is how things go.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to hzuiel For This Useful Post:
Old 03-25-2020, 02:45 PM
soocom1's Avatar
soocom1 soocom1 is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 965
Thanks: 17
Thanked 2,099 Times in 637 Posts
Default

Im going to weigh in on this but tread carefully.

First. On the stay at home orders. This is not entirely unprecedented, nor unusual.
Quarantines are not new and were employed in even more draconian means in times past, including the Spanish Flu of 1918.

The issue I have had with them is the selective aspect of "essential" argument. But that is something based on the application of law, that to whit, and unfortunately, most governors of states and various provinces have almost unilateral dictatorial controls, BUT with a time constraint. I am NOT happy about this, and nor do I believe that the extreme measures were entirely necessary, but that's MY OPINION ONLY!

2: The problem with the virus is on many different levels. From the long incubation and non-detection period to the fact that one may not show ANY symptoms and be a Typhoid Mary walking around. Imagine 50,000 Typhoid Marys in LA alone! THAT brings you pause. I have twice been through pneumonia and have stage 1-2 Hypertension. I am over 50 and despite my general health, am in a higher risk situation. So I have reason to worry, but don't.

The stark reality is that the virus is also expressing certain aspects that do in fact make it more than a little unusual.
Primarily that is is SUSPECTED (emphases added) that it came from bats. OK, but why have we not detected it before? Or is it a new mutation? Irregardless its shows many aspects of a virulent strain similar to viruses and behaviour of viruses including one that is nearly 2000 years old, that being the plague of Justinian. Though possible Black Plague itself, the plague was so quick to spread and despite certain actions by various powers of the day, killed millions. The comparison though WWWWAAAYYYYY out of date, however does point to actions of a biological agent that holds a very aggressive component that pops up about every 150-250 years.

3: The social distancing aspect is good if one singular condition is met.
That there is a terminus process to the virus. Otherwise were delaying the inevitable. Ergo: the more social distancing, the virus simply waits for a new victim and right situations to continue on its merry way. If and I do mean IF the virus is susceptible to warm weather, or hase a very short lifespan outside of a vector point, AND if that vector point has little if any commutable behaviour (hand rails, toilets, etc) from a previous exposure, THEN the social distancing will work. Otherwise its all for naught.

For those overseas from the US or north of our border, please understand something that Americans understand far differently than you folks do.
We have Constitutional rights that say we have the right to assemble and freedom of speech. We have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to own firearms, that is being stripped from us constantly.

Consider this: That 50 years ago there were less than 5000 gun laws in the US, today over 40,000 exist that has done NOTHING to stop any "gun related deaths". All we see are our rights being stripped under the guise of "safety".

I point this out because the states that are on lockdown are almost universally held by Democrats. The ones who are trying to strip us of said rights. That being the case, the lockdowns are prime opportunity to deprive gun businesses to operate. To strip gun stores of revenue.
Now keep in mind this means also jewelry stores, camera stores, various "non essential retail" , real estate agents, surveyors, etc. are hurt by this, not just gun stores. THAT lends many to believe that the reason for the lockdowns in the US may have more to them than simply "public health" attached to them.

I think many here would agree that if the Gun Control movement wasn't as prevalent as it is, that the "lockdowns" would be less under suspension.

As I was writing this, I received a "EMERGENCY ALERT" from the State of New Mexico on my cell phone that locked the phone until I "confirmed it". This tells me they are tracking my movements and recording the location of my phone to ensure I am not "violating" their public orders.

THAT is suspicious in of itself. THAT is why I distrust government and THAT is why so many are dismissing the claims of government.
I know there are some who play the "zionist conspiracy" BS, or whatever the current conspiracy is, but their numbers are few. It's the behaviour of government in the past of crying wolf that has lead so many (especially Americans) to dis-distrust and dismiss their claims.

I do not dismiss the danger, I dismiss a government that has proven its untruthfulness for literally 100+ years.

That was a seed sowed by GOVERNMENT, not an uniformed public per se.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to soocom1 For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
coronavirus, doomsday survival, pandemic survival, plague survival, surviving doomsday



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net