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Old 03-02-2020, 12:01 PM
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I'm not expert on faith and I probably don't have enough of it but I think God requires faith for at least two reasons:


1) If He made Himself obvious then our belief in Him would no longer be based on faith but on hardcore, undeniable fact. Now my personal faith IS strong enough to believe that God's existence is factual but I would have a hard time convincing a non-believer.


2) I believe God wants us to willingly choose Him based on faith out of our own free will. He knows who believes in Him vs. them who reject Him. He doesn't want to force our acceptance of Him.


Faith is "belief" in that which isn't seen with the naked eye. But, for me, God declares Himself in nature, science, space, and in the eyes and actions of human beings.


But even non-believers have faith in something. They have faith that they can drive down the freeway without getting hit by someone. They have faith that the food they're eating at the local restaurant isn't poisoned. They have faith that the sun will shine each morning. Etc.
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Old 03-06-2020, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by OhioMan View Post
.

thoughts??
Consider how many humans even atheists have faith in every time they board an airplane...regulators, engineers, managers, mechanics, pilots, fuelers, air traffic controllers, baggage loaders, and security staff.

These are people they have never met, will not meet, and know nothing about. Most recently with the 737 MAX, how misplaced was that faith proven to be?

Faith is the operative function of human life. Without it we can do nothing.
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Old 03-06-2020, 08:44 AM
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Consider how many humans even atheists have faith in every time they board an airplane...

Faith is the operative function of human life. Without it we can do nothing.
Woah! Religious people often confound religious faith with evidence-based assumptions necessary to live productively. Religious faith is the exact opposite; having faith in the absence of evidence.

This is why religious faith is such a challenge; it requires us to overcome our natural, evidence-based decision-making. The natural mind sees, then acts. The religious mind acts on faith without evidence, then sees.

BTW, I have been watching a Netflix show on Killers. The worst murderer yet, one who killed in prison because he wanted the luxuries afforded him on death row was later contacted by a distant cousin, a man of faith. This man of faith softened the heart of the cold hearted murderer. He did this with a godly weapon, love.

So, while evidence-based decision-making, including assumptions based on the available evidence is the operative function of human life in the natural world, religious faith is holy, something set apart. Not at all the same.

Repaying evil for evil is the way of the natural world. Only those with religious faith take evil and return good. And this miracle of divine morality changes the world. Why we get on airplanes is not it.
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Old 03-07-2020, 12:32 PM
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Woah! Religious people often confound religious faith with evidence-based assumptions necessary to live productively. Religious faith is the exact opposite; having faith in the absence of evidence.
I stand by the original assertion. 99% people who buy an ticket to fly somewhere do so based on blind faith. They know nothing evidenced-based regarding aircraft design, manufacturing, repair, navigation, weather, or flight training. The same thing goes for patients as they interact with the medical system.

You can perhaps generalize it to say that they have faith in society to ensure that these specific systems work as they are intended...but it's still blind, or next to blind, faith.
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Old 03-07-2020, 12:52 PM
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I stand by the original assertion. 99% people who buy an ticket to fly somewhere do so based on blind faith. They know nothing evidenced-based regarding aircraft design, manufacturing, repair, navigation, weather, or flight training.
It's not blind faith and they do not need to know the details of what you mentioned. It is common knowledge that flying is the safest way to travel. This is evidenced based decision-making; the precise opposite of blind faith.

"Blind faith" is a pejorative.

People of faith usually are ready to witness or give testimony of the power of God in their lives. This is evidence but the lowest level of evidence; the proverbial "eye witness" with little to no corroborating evidence. It is a little like "he said, she said" but there it is.
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Old 03-07-2020, 01:12 PM
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I stand by the original assertion. 99% people who buy an ticket to fly somewhere do so based on blind faith. They know nothing evidenced-based regarding aircraft design, manufacturing, repair, navigation, weather, or flight training. The same thing goes for patients as they interact with the medical system.

You can perhaps generalize it to say that they have faith in society to ensure that these specific systems work as they are intended...but it's still blind, or next to blind, faith.
The “faith” that a specific action, i.e. an airplane flight, will occur is based on repetitive similar successful actions already seen. To use your analogy, Wilbur and Orville required faith...not so much the guy on his business trip.

God has a different relationship with us, as we need faith to even believe He exists, and then we need faith that He will keep His word to us on Judgment Day. There are many examples where God allows the supernatural to come through to us, and conversions have abounded because of them. Yet He always leaves room for those who want to willfully disbelieve. And since there are painfully few visible examples of the successful fruition of our faith, we are always closer to Wilbur.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:46 PM
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Hawgy, it has been my experience if God puts you in a wheelchair you are staying there.

PK, dont sell God short or put Him in a box. He heals who He heals, and I agree that it seems He seldom does. I remember 30 years ago we were going into a Revival week. One of our members was afflicted and in a chair most of his life. Myself and a couple others decided we would Pray and Fast for God's mercy on this man. 4 days of praying, fasting, and believing, this young man didnt walk out. I didnt take away from this the thought that we did this for nothing. Yes, I was disappointed. And yes, the young man in the chair was also. But, I also dont blame God for him being unable to walk. We must understand that life comes with Joy, Happiness, Pain, Suffering, Peace and Chaos. God told Paul when he asked for a healing "No, but my Grace is sufficient". In this life, I firmly believe that "Things Happen". Some die young, some suffer more than others, some are born into rich families, some live to 100, etc. God sees all and knows all, about every one of us. But I do not believe He interferes in the daily sequences of life. Dont get me wrong, He can, and He has, but He also allows life to happen. He isnt up there saying, OK Joe, your gonna have a crippled kid, Julie, you will die in a car wreck at 14, Sam, you will inherit millions at age 21 (et al). Life is what you do with what you have. It rains on the just and the unjust.

All we can do is try to stay close to Him, ask Him to give us wisdom and forgive us when we fail. If He heals you, fantastic. If He doesnt, thats OK too. I hurt most of the time with multiple disc problems in back/neck. I broke 6 different bones in sports growing up (all different times). I have asked for healing, He has chosen so far not to, but my plight could be so much worse. One day I will get to live without hurting, and I still havent suffered as bad as Jesus did on the cross.
I say all this to just let others know who God is to me, and to try in my limited understanding and intelligence, to further the cause of Christ and let folks know that God is not mean, unfair, or uncaring. Death is part of life, and for a Christian, the beginning of Reality, Joy, Peace, and ETERNITY !
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:40 AM
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Go to war and you will know what faith is. Blind faith is where I live.

If it were not for God keeping me safe for some still unknown reason.

I should have died decades ago.
Same here, living in South Africa, oppression,unemployment, land grabs, murders, rapes, other violent crimes and theft......Then you realise what God's protection really means....

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Old 03-13-2020, 03:05 AM
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Same here, living in South Africa, oppression,unemployment, land grabs, murders, rapes, other violent crimes and theft......Then you realise what God's protection really means....

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After reading your post it's obvious gods protection means absolutely nothing.
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:08 AM
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After reading your post it's obvious gods protection means absolutely nothing.
Your are confusing Gods punishment with Gods protection....this country is FULL OF EVILS, its punishment because we moved away from God, humans always think they are clever, smarter than God, and then they dont need Him....this is punishment

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Old 03-13-2020, 03:10 AM
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After reading your post it's obvious gods protection means absolutely nothing.
And yes everyone has this "We dindu nuffin" belief or attitude thats why WE DESERVE EVERYTHING

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Old 03-13-2020, 03:13 AM
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Your are confusing Gods punishment with Gods protection....this country is FULL OF EVILS, its punishment because we moved away from God, humans always think they are clever, smarter than God, and then they dont need Him....this is punishment

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To be murdered is quite the punishment

God creates evil, it's stated in the bible. God is responsible for all evil.
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:17 AM
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To be murdered is quite the punishment



God creates evil, it's stated in the bible. God is responsible for all evil.
Yes and thats why WE CAN CHOOSE to be evil or good.....dont tell me we dont have a choice....because I am not stealing from anyone, nor raping or murdering anyone....ITS FREE WILL ITS A CHOICE.

Lets face it not everyone on deserve an eternal life, some are inherently evil so humanity must be tested and sifted, some my not see the reality nor want to accepted but its written that many are called and few are chosen

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Old 03-13-2020, 03:33 AM
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Yes and thats why WE CAN CHOOSE to be evil or good.....dont tell me we dont have a choice....because I am not stealing from anyone, nor raping or murdering anyone....ITS FREE WILL ITS A CHOICE.

Lets face it not everyone on deserve an eternal life, some are inherently evil so humanity must be tested and sifted, some my not see the reality nor want to accepted but its written that many are called and few are chosen

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Only an idiot god would create evil.
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:35 AM
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Only an idiot god would create evil.
Only a GENUIS would....thats to make sure the correct people deserve an afterlife. Good thing about evil though....it sometimes rids us of other evils too.

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Old 03-13-2020, 04:02 AM
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Only a GENUIS would....thats to make sure the correct people deserve an afterlife.
Are you really suggesting your god created evil ( murder, torture, rape, etc etc ) so the survivors of the carnage could deserve an afterlife ? That makes no sense.

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Good thing about evil though....it sometimes rids us of other evils too.

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Yes I fully understand... The good thing about evil that god created is that it sometimes rids us of other evils that god created.

Have you had your bumps felt recently ?
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:10 AM
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Are you really suggesting your god created evil ( murder, torture, rape, etc etc ) so the survivors of the carnage could deserve an afterlife ? That makes no sense.







Yes I fully understand... The good thing about evil that god created is that it sometimes rids us of other evils that god created.



Have you had your bumps felt recently ?
No arguing against an atheist....but i will tell you this...you believe in nothing created nothing and the nothing happened then there after something appeared......I believe in God and his only begotten Son....

I will rather live my life believing in a God and to die and find out there isnt one....than live my life believing there isnt one, only to die and find out there IS ONE!!!

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Old 03-13-2020, 04:30 AM
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No arguing against an atheist....but i will tell you this...you believe in nothing created nothing and the nothing happened then there after something appeared
I don't believe ( THINK ) any such thing. I think life as we know it was created by father evolution and mother nature.

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I believe in God and his only begotten Son

Belief is only possible in the absence of knowledge, in other words you can only believe when you don't know.. And if you don't know then what's the point ?



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Originally Posted by Karoobow View Post
I will rather live my life believing in a God and to die and find out there isnt one....than live my life believing there isnt one, only to die and find out there IS ONE!!!

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Have you ever asked yourself why it is that only dead people go to heaven ?
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Explosive View Post
I don't believe ( THINK ) any such thing. I think life as we know it was created by father evolution and mother nature.




Belief is only possible in the absence of knowledge, in other words you can only believe when you don't know.. And if you don't know then what's the point ?





Have you ever asked yourself why it is that only dead people go to heaven ?
Dead people dont go to heaven, when you die you are in a coma like state, until either you get resurrected as one of the first fruits when Jesus/Yeshua returns OR you only get resurrected for the white throne judgement.

Bible clearly states that no human is in heaven. What most people dont know is that they will not go to heaven either. The Bible explicitly says that A NEW JERUSALEM will descend from heaven to earth, Jesus/Yeshua will be King and reign for all eternity. We will be here on EARTH with our SAVIOUR AND KING for all eternity.

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Old 03-13-2020, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Karoobow View Post
Dead people dont go to heaven, when you die you are in a coma like state, until either you get resurrected as one of the first fruits when Jesus/Yeshua returns OR you only get resurrected for the white throne judgement.

Bible clearly states that no human is in heaven. What most people dont know is that they will not go to heaven either. The Bible explicitly says that A NEW JERUSALEM will descend from heaven to earth, Jesus/Yeshua will be King and reign for all eternity. We will be here on EARTH with our SAVIOUR AND KING for all eternity.

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That's a new one to me ! …. What bible are you talking about ?
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