I tend to take the stopping power debate with a grain of salt. All commonly used self defense handguns/calibers have the necessary power to stop.
The genuine measure of stopping power is nowhere to be found in handgun/caliber debates, stats or anecdotal comparisons. True stopping power is directly related (in proportion) to the skill and ability of the person wielding the handgun.
If you want to possess true stopping power, then push yourself away from the keyboard go to the range and work on your skills and abilities.
I agree. I have always argued against bigger is better for every gun owner.
If ability and execution are equal what else makes a difference? That I thought was the purpose of the discussion.
This was the post that started the argument:
No.
A handgun projectile doesn't cause more damage if it doesn't exit. "Energy" is a meaningless term in that respect.
Handgun bullets don't radiate death and destruction as they pass through. They poke a hole. That's it.
My argument was damage is a function of “mass” meaning size of the round. As one goes from .22 up the mass of the bullet increases. The other item damage is a function of is “velocity”.
We all know the ammo velocity for a given ammo is a function of barrel length. No one argued differently. Rifles have more velocity for a given ammo than a handgun. No on argued differently. Shorter handgun barrels result in less velocity than longer ones given the same ammo. No one argued differently.
The article says, “Kinetic energy does not wound.” That is a lie! “Kinetic energy does not wound.” If not what does?
“Penetration less than 12 inches is too little…” How does a bullet get any penetration or 12 inches of penetration without “kinetic energy”? “Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet.” What two factors are necessary for a sizeable bullet to penetrate far enough? Kinetic energy, which is one half the “bullet size”, times “the velocity of that bullet squared.” That is the scientific formula for kinetic energy.
From what I can find out the average 5’9” man has a torso thickness of 9.5”. I am short and over weight 5’7” and my torso thickness is about 14”. So based on this article to do major damage a bullet must penetrate 70 to 100% through a human body. I do not think so. A chest shot is likely to hit part of the following: chest includes the chest wall, ribs, spine, spinal cord, intercostal neurovascular bundles, lungs, bronchi, heart, aorta, major vessels, esophagus, thoracic duct, and diaphragm. An abdominal shot is likely to hit part of the following: “stomach, small bowel, colon, liver, spleen, pancreas, kidneys, spine, diaphragm, descending aorta, and other abdominal vessels and nerves.
Medical experts report “gunshots to the chest can thus cause severe bleeding (hemothorax), respiratory compromise (pneumothorax, hemothorax, pulmonary contusion, tracheobronchial injury), cardiac injury (pericardial tamponade), esophageal injury, and nervous system injury.” “Gunshots to the abdomen can thus cause severe bleeding, release of bowel contents, peritonitis, organ rupture, respiratory compromise, and neurological deficits.”
Yet the article says: “It is essential to bear in mind that the single most critical factor remains penetration. While penetration up to 18 inches is preferable, a handgun bullet MUST reliably penetrate 12 inches of soft body tissue at a minimum, regardless of whether it expands or not. If the bullet does not reliably penetrate to these depths, it is not an effective bullet for law enforcement use.” This is pure BS!
In fact the energy of a bullet is similar to getting hit by a baseball, yet baseballs rarely kill.
I have already proven (see post above) that your statement is a lie.
To make matters worse you are misusing the article. The article states “Goddard amply proves the fallacy of "knock-down power" by calculating the heights (and resultant velocities) from which a one pound weight and a ten pound weight must be dropped to equal the momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles at muzzle velocities, respectively. The results are revealing. In order to equal the impact of a 9mm bullet at its muzzle velocity, a one pound weight must be dropped from a height of 5.96 feet, achieving a velocity of 19.6 fps. To equal the impact of a .45ACP bullet, the one pound weight needs a velocity of 27.1 fps and must be dropped from a height of 11.4 feet. A ten pound weight equals the impact of a 9mm bullet when dropped from a height of 0.72 inches (velocity attained is 1.96 fps), and equals the impact of a .45 when dropped from 1.37 inches (achieving a velocity of 2.71 fps).”
“A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.31 The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball.32 Tissue damage is the only physical link to incapacitation within the desired time frame, i.e., instantaneously.”
I do not think I ever addressed “knock-down power”. Neither example is the equivalent of a 9mm or .45ACP round hitting a human.
Here is the physics: “A light object traveling fast is more damaging than a heavy object with the same momentum traveling slowly because it carries more energy.”
Plus even the kinetic energy of a baseball without penetration can cause internal tissue damage to the torso resulting in death. When I was a boy, I was at a Pony League baseball game. A brother of a boy I was in Little League with was catching. He was hit in the chest, while wearing a proper chest protector, and died. He died right there on the field. That is a fact.
The FBI author of this article was attempting to warn LEO against myths. The result was an article cloaked in ignorance.
Human tissue does have a lot of elasticity. But, kinetic energy increases with mass, which the article admits, increases the damage at and around the path of penetration. Kinetic energy increases with increases in velocity, which increases the length of penetration of the mass.
Yea I read the article and most of it is wrong. A bullet cannot penetrate at all without kinetic energy. For a bullet to lose its kinetic energy it must transfer that energy to either to the air in the form of fraction or in a body in the form of damage. The fact that human body tissue is somewhat elastic does not mean as the kinetic energy of a bullet increases as a result of increases in mass or velocity or both does not increase the wound.
The author is an idiot and the article is a half-truth lie.