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Old 06-13-2019, 08:58 PM
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Damnit! Ok wish I would have noticed who posted that before thinking it was actually news. We need a thank removal button!
Thanks IAR, no thanks to the troll wa
It's in the "thanks" dialogue box directly below where the "thanks" button lived before tapping it.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:29 PM
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It's in the "thanks" dialogue box directly below where the "thanks" button lived before tapping it.


Not there with Tapatalk.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamAshley View Post
You are making no sense. Can you explain this again.


https://www.businessinsider.com/us-c...s-anger-2019-6

So you are saying me quoting a news story, from major western news organization, as being fake news?

Not sure what you are saying?

Are you suggesting that the news ariticle isn't actually quoting someone from China who thinks that?



So are you saying Yahoo Finance is fake news?



Now I am not saying it is or it isn't. I am saying I am wondering if you think it is, and further why you consider Yahoo Finance fake news?

What in this news report is fake?

China threatening to ban rare earth minerals to the United States - YouTube


Don't say I didn't warn you...

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-c...s-anger-2019-6


With the additional 200Billion of trade penalties levied against China, I can only imagine that this situation is one of pouring salt on an open wound. A negative reaction seems to be the intended response.

Race for rare earth materials | 7.30 - YouTube

This becomes more contentious because the US is exporting war machines such as M1A1 that use the rare earths from China in production of the military equipment to be used against China.

Basically China is providing the raw materials to build advanced weapon systems that are intended to be used against them. This makes limiting supply of Rare earth metals more logical.

While China produces over 80% of the global supply of rare earths, it owns 97% of the production globaly.


Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides? Trap? - YouTube

To think about

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides

This from a little over a year ago.
Fortunately, China is not NEARLY the only source for "rare earth minerals" which by the way, aren't all that rare. Nor for other things. They definitely need the US more than we need them. At this point. Remember when everything was "made in Taiwan?" If China keeps being stupid and arrogant, that will be the most common branding, not "made in China." Manufacturing will shift to other asian and south american countries. Period. Yep, maybe we pay a bit more for things, but that would REALLY HURT China. They can't afford to be so stupid and the world can't afford to keep letting them lie, cheat and steal their way to economic success.

China is the worst pack of thieves out there at this point. Plus they are TERRIBLE on human rights. How many millions of their own citizens have they killed again? About a million citizens in "re-education camps" that are "totally voluntary" as well?

No, we shouldn't *****foot around with China and they deserve no special consideration. Move the manufacturing, etc. out of China and to other, better countries. A good dose of humility would do the Chinese wonders. If they actually decide to play like adults, then we can consider working with them more in the future. Until then, let them 'sit and spin.'
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Old 06-14-2019, 04:30 AM
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Funny , after the explosion of the tankers, the U.S. accused Iran and presented a "video proof" ,
dialogue on the RT website among users :

"Azim Akhmetov
I did not understand why to hang a mine above the waterline?
4 Likes
X BARS
If you hang below, the video will not see it
5 Likes"
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:40 AM
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Old 06-14-2019, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Sinthor View Post
Fortunately, China is not NEARLY the only source for "rare earth minerals"
In fact it is the only source able to fill demand.



Quote:
which by the way, aren't all that rare.
in fact they are so rare demand is not met by supply. (The precursors to their production are avaialable in various economically viable sources, but production is not possible due to environmental issues, and cost of production, and there being no infrastructure. China owns almost all those production sites globally.)


Quote:
Nor for other things. They definitely need the US more than we need them.
Not at all, China is a domestic based economy. Chinese have a trade surplus with the US because the US has more demand for Chinese products than the CHinese for US products.


Quote:
At this point. Remember when everything was "made in Taiwan?" If China keeps being stupid and arrogant, that will be the most common branding, not "made in China." Manufacturing will shift to other asian and south american countries. Period. Yep, maybe we pay a bit more for things, but that would REALLY HURT China. They can't afford to be so stupid and the world can't afford to keep letting them lie, cheat and steal their way to economic success.
There workers are slaves mate. They work them to death, that is why they are doing well.


Quote:
China is the worst pack of thieves out there at this point. Plus they are TERRIBLE on human rights. How many millions of their own citizens have they killed again? About a million citizens in "re-education camps" that are "totally voluntary" as well?

No, we shouldn't *****foot around with China and they deserve no special consideration. Move the manufacturing, etc. out of China and to other, better countries. A good dose of humility would do the Chinese wonders. If they actually decide to play like adults, then we can consider working with them more in the future. Until then, let them 'sit and spin.'
Yeah well that takes a decade to implement.

Fact is the US rare earth industries are owned by China, China has 95% of the the global industry ownership, and domestically produce over 80% of the global supply. China is able to produce them because their environmental regulations are relatively lax compared to other countries. The tailings are massive quantities of contaminated acids and radioactive wastes, as a byproduct of production.

Learn the facts.
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamAshley View Post
In fact it is the only source able to fill demand.



in fact they are so rare demand is not met by supply. (The precursors to their production are avaialable in various economically viable sources, but production is not possible due to environmental issues, and cost of production, and there being no infrastructure. China owns almost all those production sites globally.)


Not at all, China is a domestic based economy. Chinese have a trade surplus with the US because the US has more demand for Chinese products than the CHinese for US products.



There workers are slaves mate. They work them to death, that is why they are doing well.




Yeah well that takes a decade to implement.

Fact is the US rare earth industries are owned by China, China has 95% of the the global industry ownership, and domestically produce over 80% of the global supply. China is able to produce them because their environmental regulations are relatively lax compared to other countries. The tailings are massive quantities of contaminated acids and radioactive wastes, as a byproduct of production.

Learn the facts.
"In fact it is the only source able to fill demand."

Um...I'm pretty sure you understand what rare elements are, so I won't ask, but...really? This is so wrong. The US was actually the leading producer of rare earth minerals between the 50's and 80's. China took the lead in the 90's mostly due to the idiotic deals we give them. Here's a quick find from my Google-Fu that will help you see the other sources for this. China isn't even CLOSE to being the only source. In fact, US production has started up again.

https://investingnews.com/daily/reso...ing-countries/

"in fact they are so rare demand is not met by supply. (The precursors to their production are avaialable in various economically viable sources, but production is not possible due to environmental issues, and cost of production, and there being no infrastructure. China owns almost all those production sites globally.)"

Again..not that rare. Here's another article for you. My Google-Fu is apparently stronger.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/17/1...china-monopoly

(Nor for other things. They definitely need the US more than we need them.)

"Not at all, China is a domestic based economy. Chinese have a trade surplus with the US because the US has more demand for Chinese products than the CHinese for US products."

Exactly. The US has more demand for Chinese products. They NEED US to buy those products. We're their biggest customer. Again, they need us more than we need them. In other words, they are getting dollars for products that other countries used to get and will get again if China continues to be so arrogant and stupid, not to mention stunningly dishonest.

"There workers are slaves mate. They work them to death, that is why they are doing well."

No argument there. That's why they will lose in the end. Their workers simply aren't motivated. All they have is numbers.

"Yeah well that takes a decade to implement.

Fact is the US rare earth industries are owned by China, China has 95% of the the global industry ownership, and domestically produce over 80% of the global supply. China is able to produce them because their environmental regulations are relatively lax compared to other countries. The tailings are massive quantities of contaminated acids and radioactive wastes, as a byproduct of production.

Learn the facts."

Wow, seriously? If you're going to get all high and mighty with 'learn the facts,' you might want to get them straight yourself first, bro.

Yes, China dominates the market, but the US is already number 3 on the world production list for rare earth minerals, which I already show you in an earlier article link. And no, China doesn't own all the US rare earth industries. That's silly. There's only one mine and that is actually being considered for nationalization to ensure it stays protected. (see link below).

https://investingnews.com/daily/reso...-nationalized/

I don't get how so many people have China-gasms or whatever it is that makes them squawk from the highest peak that China rules all. They are still considerably behind us economically and much if not most of their success can be argued to be a result of their thievery and the stupidity of nations like the US in the past thinking that if we gave them all sorts of sweetheart deals and screwed over our own industries and workers in the process, that China would suddenly turn democratic.

Again, this is a country that has killed MILLIONS of its own and has a BRUTAL human right record, right up to this day. The time is now to hammer them.

As you admitted, they need us more than we need them. Sure there will be some short term/mid term pain as far as prices, but businesses will adapt.

I hope this helps you with your facts. Settle down, sparky!
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by [emoji295
ʕ❛ܫ❛ʔ ;19583378]Funny , after the explosion of the tankers, the U.S. accused Iran and presented a "video proof" ,

dialogue on the RT website among users :



"Azim Akhmetov

I did not understand why to hang a mine above the waterline?

4 Likes

X BARS

If you hang below, the video will not see it

5 Likes"
This hoax is painful to watch. Once again the US govt is either being duped by a so called ally, the Saudis ( remember 9/11) or is complicit in yet another false flag.

Even the Japanese disagree with the US.

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Old 06-15-2019, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
This hoax is painful to watch. Once again the US govt is either being duped by a so called ally, the Saudis ( remember 9/11) or is complicit in yet another false flag.

Even the Japanese disagree with the US.

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How did the Saudis dupe the US?

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Old 06-15-2019, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
This hoax is painful to watch. Once again the US govt is either being duped by a so called ally, the Saudis ( remember 9/11) or is complicit in yet another false flag.

Even the Japanese disagree with the US.
You find it difficult to believe , but this is an attack by the American army and the American media on all Americans (citizens of USA. ) . Bad news reduces the number of neurons in the brain and therefore you spend more money . It's just news , "a storm in a glass of water," if you take less credit and be more independent so you can respond to provocateurs from the corporations that steal your money every day.

In Ukraine, there is genocide (Nazis kill people with 10,000 years of history) and in Africa there is genocide (in Liberia, Ebola kills thousands of former Americans) and the media use it to genocide the brain of Americans . If you can beat the Corporation , you do not have to die for them , there is no other way .

What is the reason for the conflict with Iran ? Iran has nothing to do with it , it's all about oil , which corporations will receive for free and sell to You .

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ew+brain+cells

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Old 06-15-2019, 09:59 AM
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How did the Saudis dupe the US?

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Read the recently released , partially redacted 28 pages that were deleted from the official 9/11 report for starters. We should have attacked the Saudis not Iraq. They are hardly an ally given that and their more recent behavior.

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Old 06-15-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Sinthor View Post
"In fact it is the only source able to fill demand."

Um...I'm pretty sure you understand what rare elements are, so I won't ask, but...really? This is so wrong. The US was actually the leading producer of rare earth minerals between the 50's and 80's. China took the lead in the 90's mostly due to the idiotic deals we give them. Here's a quick find from my Google-Fu that will help you see the other sources for this. China isn't even CLOSE to being the only source. In fact, US production has started up again.

https://investingnews.com/daily/reso...ing-countries/
Oh my, no words. *sigh* You don't understand. Production and use of rare earths greatly expanded as their uses expanded with technological advancements. Production also ramped up. China developed the infrastructure to produce rare earths and the US was unable to compete so their operation shut down because the Chinese could produce for less. (The US corps actually shipped the feedstock ores to China to be processed) The Chinese then bought US production points as partners in overseas operations as part of their strategy to monopolize rare earth production ownership. Leading an industry 30 to 50 years ago is such a major joke. I won't go into that as I have to be nice.


Quote:
"in fact they are so rare demand is not met by supply. (The precursors to their production are available in various economically viable sources, but production is not possible due to environmental issues, and cost of production, and there is no infrastructure. China owns almost all those production sites globally.)"

Again..not that rare. Here's another article for you. My Google-Fu is apparently stronger.
They are rare - you are saying that the precursor ingredients to production are not that rare but the end product is rare. It is like saying gold ore isn't rare, but finding it in commercial quantities and refining it from tons of ore makes it rare, the same is applicable to rare earth. Its not like you can just pick up a handful of dirt and be like, so much rare earth here, what makes it useful is production into a material that is commercially usable and that take infrastructure and engineering processes that don't exist anywhere except China predominantly and at Chinese owned facilities around the world.

They need to build the billion-dollar infrastructure to produce it. You don't get that. People don't eat it and squat to produce it.

Quote:
(Nor for other things. They definitely need the US more than we need them.)

"Not at all, China is a domestic-based economy. Chinese have a trade surplus with the US because the US has more demand for Chinese products than the Chinese for US products."

Exactly. The US has more demand for Chinese products. They NEED US to buy those products. We're their biggest customer. Again, they need us more than we need them. In other words, they are getting dollars for products that other countries used to get and will get again if China continues to be so arrogant and stupid, not to mention stunningly dishonest.
You don't get that it is the buyer who has the need not the seller. China's export economy is about 10% of its economy. While it will impact China, the US will be impacted far more, for instance, companies like Walmart and the other retail sector businesses are asking for the trade war to end , as these largest employers in the US cannot remain viable without Chinese consumer goods. The US has a much greater need for cheap Chinese goods than China has for USD, they have over a trillion USD stockpiled.


Quote:
"There workers are slaves mate. They work them to death, that is why they are doing well."

No argument there. That's why they will lose in the end. Their workers simply aren't motivated. All they have is numbers.
that is why they overtook the US as #1 economy in the world.

Quote:
"Yeah well that takes a decade to implement.

Fact is the US rare earth industries are owned by China, China has 95% of the global industry ownership, and domestically produce over 80% of the global supply. China is able to produce them because their environmental regulations are relatively lax compared to other countries. The tailings are massive quantities of contaminated acids and radioactive wastes, as a byproduct of production.

Learn the facts."

Wow, seriously? If you're going to get all high and mighty with 'learn the facts,' you might want to get them straight yourself first, bro.

Yes, China dominates the market, but the US is already number 3 on the world production list for rare earth minerals, which I already show you in an earlier article link. And no, China doesn't own all the US rare earth industries. That's silly. There's only one mine and that is actually being considered for nationalization to ensure it stays protected. (see link below).

https://investingnews.com/daily/reso...-nationalized/

I don't get how so many people have China-gasms or whatever it is that makes them squawk from the highest peak that China rules all. They are still considerably behind us economically and much if not most of their success can be argued to be a result of their thievery and the stupidity of nations like the US in the past thinking that if we gave them all sorts of sweetheart deals and screwed over our own industries and workers in the process, that China would suddenly turn democratic.

Again, this is a country that has killed MILLIONS of its own and has a BRUTAL human right record, right up to this day. The time is now to hammer them.

As you admitted, they need us more than we need them. Sure there will be some short term/mid term pain as far as prices, but businesses will adapt.

I hope this helps you with your facts. Settle down, sparky!


US doesn't have enough production to meet its own domestic demand by a long shot, it would shudder US industry in the tech industries like cellphones. If combined with China shutting out Apple, Microsoft and others it would be many many billions lost.
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Old 06-15-2019, 11:41 AM
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Oh my, no words. *sigh*
Oh, how I wish if anything you wrote were true, this would be it. Yet, the wall of words shows it to be just one more thing you lied about...
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamAshley View Post
Oh my, no words. *sigh* You don't understand. Production and use of rare earths greatly expanded as their uses expanded with technological advancements. Production also ramped up. China developed the infrastructure to produce rare earths and the US was unable to compete so their operation shut down because the Chinese could produce for less. (The US corps actually shipped the feedstock ores to China to be processed) The Chinese then bought US production points as partners in overseas operations as part of their strategy to monopolize rare earth production ownership. Leading an industry 30 to 50 years ago is such a major joke. I won't go into that as I have to be nice.



They are rare - you are saying that the precursor ingredients to production are not that rare but the end product is rare. It is like saying gold ore isn't rare, but finding it in commercial quantities and refining it from tons of ore makes it rare, the same is applicable to rare earth. Its not like you can just pick up a handful of dirt and be like, so much rare earth here, what makes it useful is production into a material that is commercially usable and that take infrastructure and engineering processes that don't exist anywhere except China predominantly and at Chinese owned facilities around the world.



They need to build the billion-dollar infrastructure to produce it. You don't get that. People don't eat it and squat to produce it.



You don't get that it is the buyer who has the need not the seller. China's export economy is about 10% of its economy. While it will impact China, the US will be impacted far more, for instance, companies like Walmart and the other retail sector businesses are asking for the trade war to end , as these largest employers in the US cannot remain viable without Chinese consumer goods. The US has a much greater need for cheap Chinese goods than China has for USD, they have over a trillion USD stockpiled.


that is why they overtook the US as #1 economy in the world.





US doesn't have enough production to meet its own domestic demand by a long shot, it would shudder US industry in the tech industries like cellphones. If combined with China shutting out Apple, Microsoft and others it would be many many billions lost.
Oh my, I get it now. You just change what you're saying and claim you were saying it in the first place, right?

Let's go back to what you said. You said "In fact it is the only source able to fill demand." That is WRONG.

The US only bought $170 million worth of these metals in 2017. Hardly some huge thing. And as I provided, there are plenty of other countries besides China, INCLUDING the US where rare earth minerals are mined and refined. There's a refinery going by the same company that owns the operational US mine. There's more deposits in Montana that are being looked at for mining as well. Bottom line, what we bought from China, we can get from other sources. There are refineries in Europe and Japan as well. I only mentioned the US dominance from the 50's to the 80's to highlight how China took over from being granted so many stupid trade allowances, as you well know.

AGAIN you claim (switching your tack now) that only China has the processing facilities. WRONG AGAIN. The US has a refinery operating alongside it's mine and there are other facilities in Europe and Japan that can process the metals and refine them. Again, I used my awesome Google-Fu for you:
https://trib.com/business/energy/rar...cdb429424.html

And again you go with the chicken little argument that because we buy from China we are hurt more than they are. Just look at the tariffs. China can only tariff about $50 billion in goods bought from the US where we can tariff over $350 BILLION. So who loses more money if the other side stops buying as a result? Here's a clue- $350 billion is more money than $50 billion. China gets hurt more. Again, you've all but directly confirmed that in your earlier responses so I don't get it.

Let's put it in simpler terms. You have an apple tree in your back yard. I have a pear tree. Lots of people in our neighborhood have apple and other sorts of trees but we have a good relationship so we like to deal with each other. Now I buy $300 billion worth of apples from you each year because my wife runs a bakery that specializes in Apple pies and other pastries. You only buy $50 billion of pears from me because you only use them for yourself and your family. Not a big deal. But with all that money I'm giving you, you're making the payments on another house you mortgaged because you could afford it since you had all this extra income. With my $50 billion I pay my kid's rent at an apartment while she goes to college. Not enough to buy another house, unfortunately.

Now we get into a dispute over fencing and both say "@##! you!" to each other for whatever reason. I'm not going to buy one more apple from you...I'll get it from the neighbors. You can get pears from them as well. But who gets impacted more? You may have to sell that extra house you're making payments on! I'll have some pain too- I'll have to tell my kid she's going to have to get a job to pay for rent until or unless I can figure something else out. Probably sell my pears to multiple different neighbors. Make sense now? Sure, you can sell those apples to others, but it turns out that most of the neighborhood is in an HOA and guess who the President of the HOA is? That's right, it's me. So a LOT of those neighbors, maybe even all who are in the HOA are not going to buy from you because they want me to approve their decks and painting projects. You can find some outside, but you're gonna have to drive a ways. Hopefully that helps.

Bottom line, there will be pain, but nothing China produces is something that cannot be obtained elsewhere. And if China is stupid and keeps up their thievery, the markets for those goods will shift...some permanently. Do you think that if companies have to set up shop in Taiwan or other countries because of China's predatory practices that once China folds, they will be eager to spend millions just to get back to China? Nope.

That's the end of the story. China is NOT indispensable. And they won't just lose the US as customers, they will lose our allies and likely Europe. So again, we will win if we have the political will to keep punishing China until they decide to behave like honorable adults. If we give up and wimp out of course, all bets are off.

Anyways, not interested in having a rolling debate when you keep changing what you say you were saying. Facts are facts. Hope you have a good weekend!
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Old 06-15-2019, 04:23 PM
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Read the recently released , partially redacted 28 pages that were deleted from the official 9/11 report for starters. We should have attacked the Saudis not Iraq. They are hardly an ally given that and their more recent behavior.

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Or I can simply sum it up for ya...

Saudis are muzzies. So are Iraqis, Iranians, Somalis, etc....

All of them want to destroy us and all of them need to be kept in their own nations, not supported, and annihilated when they sneak off the reservation.
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I would happily unload my cache of old electronics into recycling if there were any concerted effort to recycle the rare earths. Hard drives are full of them as are old smartphones and computer monitors. It would seem simpler to extract them from electronics that to strip mine them and extract from ores.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:30 PM
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None of that video makes any sense. If they are retrieving a "dud" mine, why put 25 guys on a patrol boat and have them stand as close as possible to a flaky explosive. If you were on such a mission, wouldn't the back of the boat be a better place to be while the "volunteer" fiddles with the bomb?

Then it is the grainiest picture you can probably come up with from the US Military who has a bigger budget than all other countries combined. How do we even know this is the same ship? Or it could be some video from months ago.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:51 PM
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I know there are some really dangerous marine life in that gulf beyond a stupidly huge number and types of sharks. There's a certain sea snake ten times more deadly than a cobra. I'd have to imagine even the most hardened goat lover would avoid getting into the water, swim a distance, plant a mine and swim back. The easiest method for a bunch of low IQ wife beaters would be to place it on the ship just as pictured and they dearly to love to use their fast attack boats. Besides placing it in the water would negate it was a false flag U.S. missile.

Usually I'm the first guy to blame our devious gov but in this case I think the Iranians did exactly what they said they'd do back in April. And if they get an arse whooping I'd certainly celebrate harder on the 4th.
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Old 06-15-2019, 06:02 PM
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Recent news is the Iranians shot at a US drone...
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