Crossing The Line. Martial Arts Creating More Danger - Survivalist Forum
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SurvivalistBoard Survivor Game (Season 1: Lucy's Hammer) KeyserSoSay Books, Movies & Stories 1945 09-12-2018 09:49 PM
Buying a compass roof_top_eagle Disaster Preparedness General Discussion 42 12-14-2016 08:24 PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2019, 02:26 PM
SeaBeeDaddy's Avatar
SeaBeeDaddy SeaBeeDaddy is online now
For Conversation's Sake.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,831
Thanks: 12,549
Thanked 17,169 Times in 5,286 Posts
Default Crossing The Line. Martial Arts Creating More Danger



Advertise Here

A bit of a dramatic headline but since you are here would like your input. Especially if you are a martial artist or trainer.

My daughter has been in Kung Fu, Striking, Grappling, and Weapons Sparring/Training for almost 4 years. It has been great for her and she does well, but it has greatly skewed her concept of realty. Since she is tall and strong for her age she attends the adult classes were she does fairly well against people 4+ years older than her.

This has created somewhat of an ego and skewed view of her capabilities in a real World situation. I like her confidence and her feeling capable but it has crossed the line into a false sense of security.

I would like to bring her back down to Earth without squashing her confidence and eagerness to train.

Any thoughts?
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SeaBeeDaddy For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 02:39 PM
TRyan's Avatar
TRyan TRyan is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: California
Posts: 8,268
Thanks: 6,258
Thanked 28,188 Times in 6,648 Posts
Default

I train by myself these days just to keep in shape. But in my younger days (early 20's) when I was tournament fighting I developed a bit of a ego myself. My instructor noticed this so one day during sparring he paired me with a little girl. I told him I couldn't fight her and I was afraid I would hurt her. He told me just to do it and take it easy on her. I said ok and we began. She picked me apart. I was bigger and stronger but, even though unassuming, she was more skilled than me.

I learned never to take my opponent for granted or underestimate them. Maybe your daughter needs a lesson like that.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Quick reply to this message
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to TRyan For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 02:42 PM
ajole ajole is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,766
Thanks: 7,741
Thanked 22,107 Times in 7,002 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
A bit of a dramatic headline but since you are here would like your input. Especially if you are a martial artist or trainer.

My daughter has been in Kung Fu, Striking, Grappling, and Weapons Sparring/Training for almost 4 years. It has been great for her and she does well, but it has greatly skewed her concept of realty. Since she is tall and strong for her age she attends the adult classes were she does fairly well against people 4+ years older than her.

This has created somewhat of an ego and skewed view of her capabilities in a real World situation. I like her confidence and her feeling capable but it has crossed the line into a false sense of security.

I would like to bring her back down to Earth without squashing her confidence and eagerness to train.

Any thoughts?
Find a partner that can beat her without hurting her.

Put her in a harder class.

Take her to the range or hunting; shoot some targets of wood or cans or bottles that demonstrate the impact and power; so she understands you can't kick a bullet out of the air, nor choke it out, and remind her, bad guys don't fight fair, and tapping out isn't an option.

Do they do any 2 on 1 work beyond kata? That changes any martial art.


We have this issue often with our school teams, we can destroy the region, but we get to state and the level changes; even though we CAN compete and do well, it's far harder and if we haven't got their heads on right, it can be a disaster.

Kudos for staying ahead of the curve with your daughter.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ajole For This Useful Post:
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-20-2019, 02:53 PM
sonya1's Avatar
sonya1 sonya1 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,860
Thanks: 4,164
Thanked 9,352 Times in 3,554 Posts
Default

Oh man, I think maybe our daughters must be kindred spirits!

She got her black belt in Karate at 16, started at age 4 ( I have done some form of martial arts until I was in my mid 40s and got too old to spar and get injuries all the time ....)

She is now i26 and just joined the Navy ( currently at boot camp), and yes, she thinks she is invincible...
Her idea of fun is jumping out of a plane with a parachute

My thoughts on yours: teach her to shoot. A bullet stops a martial artists most of the time. Even if she was the best fighter ever, if someone shoots her from a distance it won't do her any good. Make this clear to her. Martial arts is ok for self defense if she learns it from a good sensei. If it is strictly for sports, and all about fighting with rules, it's useless for self defense. She needs to learn from someone that teaches real fighting and self defense. Hope this helps
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sonya1 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 03:00 PM
ajole ajole is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,766
Thanks: 7,741
Thanked 22,107 Times in 7,002 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonya1 View Post
it's useless for self defense.
Not useless, just limited. The bad guy chooses the place and time, as well as the weapons. If they choose wrong, she has a chance.

But there are SO many ways they can choose that negate hand to hand abilities.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to ajole For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 03:07 PM
sonya1's Avatar
sonya1 sonya1 is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,860
Thanks: 4,164
Thanked 9,352 Times in 3,554 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Not useless, just limited. The bad guy chooses the place and time, as well as the weapons. If they choose wrong, she has a chance.

But there are SO many ways they can choose that negate hand to hand abilities.
You didn't read my comment right. I said it is useless IF YOU LEARN IT AS A SPORT. There is a big difference in learning something like Taek Won Do for sports, where you fight to score points, and learning basically how to hurt someone that attacks you. I learned from someone in law enforcement that did this on the side. We did things like spar in street clothes in the parking lot no pads, no head gear. The women and girls had to fight the big guys and put them on the ground, because that is what they might come up against in real life. And the guys were NOT allowed to "take it easy" on the girls, if they did, they got their butts kicked by sensei
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sonya1 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 05:53 PM
dontbuypotteryfromme's Avatar
dontbuypotteryfromme dontbuypotteryfromme is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far north queensland Australia
Posts: 20,233
Thanks: 4,427
Thanked 15,831 Times in 8,399 Posts
Default

MMA fight.

If you don't learn martial arts as a sport it is basically useless for self defense.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to dontbuypotteryfromme For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 06:17 PM
Lost Woods Survival's Avatar
Lost Woods Survival Lost Woods Survival is offline
Trapper
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: South-east NC
Posts: 924
Thanks: 22
Thanked 977 Times in 499 Posts
Default

I agree that kids can get a big ego from the classes and then leads them to problems later in life when they figure out that classroom martial arts are not the same as real-world fighting. I don't care much for it in a classroom. I did do MMA for a while but basically to learn how to punch and kick and grapple.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Lost Woods Survival For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 06:54 PM
Sinthor's Avatar
Sinthor Sinthor is offline
Cat and parrot whisperer
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 1,122
Thanks: 963
Thanked 1,914 Times in 756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
A bit of a dramatic headline but since you are here would like your input. Especially if you are a martial artist or trainer.

My daughter has been in Kung Fu, Striking, Grappling, and Weapons Sparring/Training for almost 4 years. It has been great for her and she does well, but it has greatly skewed her concept of realty. Since she is tall and strong for her age she attends the adult classes were she does fairly well against people 4+ years older than her.

This has created somewhat of an ego and skewed view of her capabilities in a real World situation. I like her confidence and her feeling capable but it has crossed the line into a false sense of security.

I would like to bring her back down to Earth without squashing her confidence and eagerness to train.

Any thoughts?
I saw you said she's done grappling as well so I assume she trains in a school or schools that do actual one on one sparring/training rather than just kata? Put her in a more advanced class or have her work out with some males who you can trust. Confidence is great, but if it expands to cockiness it can be dangerous. I liked a lot of the other suggestions here as well. Maybe talk to her instructor if there's not another good option. When I was training, especially children or teens sometimes I had to take a hand and help educate the students when they got a little too above themselves.
__________________
All you have to decide is what to do with the time given to you...
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Sinthor For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 07:35 PM
SeaBeeDaddy's Avatar
SeaBeeDaddy SeaBeeDaddy is online now
For Conversation's Sake.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,831
Thanks: 12,549
Thanked 17,169 Times in 5,286 Posts
Default

Thanks for the great insights! For clarification, she is a 12yo that is the size of most 18 year old females.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinthor View Post
I saw you said she's done grappling as well so I assume she trains in a school or schools that do actual one on one sparring/training rather than just kata? Put her in a more advanced class or have her work out with some males who you can trust. Confidence is great, but if it expands to cockiness it can be dangerous. I liked a lot of the other suggestions here as well. Maybe talk to her instructor if there's not another good option. When I was training, especially children or teens sometimes I had to take a hand and help educate the students when they got a little too above themselves.
Thanks. Yes, the school is Kung Fu as the discipline/art but 5 nights of the week she is in grappling, sparring, weapon sparring, and weapons training so there is lots of mixed sparring and it is mixed gender so she gets a bit of hands on experience with different opponents.

My main concern is that she thinks she can fight adults or put herself in situations where she should run instead of fight.

For example. Answering the door without checking who is there is a big no-no in our house. I have caught her doing it a few times and her answer is "Well I will just choke them out" etc..

Not the end of the World but a somewhat dangerous mindset to have at such a young age.
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SeaBeeDaddy For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 08:14 PM
swamppapa swamppapa is offline
Survivor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: N. central Ok.
Posts: 10,166
Thanks: 2,523
Thanked 16,581 Times in 6,364 Posts
Default

it is not just the martial arts students my daughter that I taught to shoot then was raised by her liberal mother. would spout the "I'm a strong independent woman and if a man tries to hurt me I'll kick him in the balls" bull**** camp.

she married a guy on his way to Schofield barracks. once there they had a domestic , he beat her bad enough that she wound up in the hospital. then put on the plane home with an escort
(I heard this 2 years after the fact through a third party)

when she was young I wondered the same thing "how do you show them it's not true without maiming or crushing them?"
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to swamppapa For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 08:20 PM
SeaBeeDaddy's Avatar
SeaBeeDaddy SeaBeeDaddy is online now
For Conversation's Sake.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,831
Thanks: 12,549
Thanked 17,169 Times in 5,286 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamppapa View Post
it is not just the martial arts students my daughter that I taught to shoot then was raised by her liberal mother. would spout the "I'm a strong independent woman and if a man tries to hurt me I'll kick him in the balls" bull**** camp.

she married a guy on his way to Schofield barracks. once there they had a domestic , he beat her bad enough that she wound up in the hospital. then put on the plane home with an escort
(I heard this 2 years after the fact through a third party)

when she was young I wondered the same thing "how do you show them it's not true without maiming or crushing them?"
Great example. I think it can be applied throughout the self-defense realm male and female, young and old.
Quick reply to this message
Old 05-20-2019, 08:25 PM
ForgedInTheFlame's Avatar
ForgedInTheFlame ForgedInTheFlame is online now
Fix Bayonets!
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 5,032
Thanks: 18,724
Thanked 7,530 Times in 3,324 Posts
Default

Boxing, and MMA, and maybe some Muay Thai will have legit sparring.

She needs to actually fight, at an amateur level, to get a taste of actual combat in combat sports.

Other than that, it's hard to know if someone knows / thinks their self defense abilities are for real until they are in a situation where they need them, and no one wants that for a loved one.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
Quick reply to this message
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ForgedInTheFlame For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 08:44 PM
Sinthor's Avatar
Sinthor Sinthor is offline
Cat and parrot whisperer
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Posts: 1,122
Thanks: 963
Thanked 1,914 Times in 756 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
Thanks for the great insights! For clarification, she is a 12yo that is the size of most 18 year old females.



Thanks. Yes, the school is Kung Fu as the discipline/art but 5 nights of the week she is in grappling, sparring, weapon sparring, and weapons training so there is lots of mixed sparring and it is mixed gender so she gets a bit of hands on experience with different opponents.

My main concern is that she thinks she can fight adults or put herself in situations where she should run instead of fight.

For example. Answering the door without checking who is there is a big no-no in our house. I have caught her doing it a few times and her answer is "Well I will just choke them out" etc..

Not the end of the World but a somewhat dangerous mindset to have at such a young age.
Ah, I see. Size and strength definitely help in martial arts. The only problem is (obviously), she still won't compare to the average man in strength. I'd talk things over with the instructor then. Some of this..you'll likely have to wait on and have her learn thru experience, unfortunately. There should be an adult womens class she could join though that might help. Teenagers! Hmmmphf! Good luck, sir!
__________________
All you have to decide is what to do with the time given to you...
Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sinthor For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 09:26 PM
dontbuypotteryfromme's Avatar
dontbuypotteryfromme dontbuypotteryfromme is online now
Survivor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far north queensland Australia
Posts: 20,233
Thanks: 4,427
Thanked 15,831 Times in 8,399 Posts
Default

If she is 12 wouldn't you just discipline her the same way you would for anything else?

You catch her. She gets the consequences.

It is not like a 12year old should be exposed to an assault if it can be avoided.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to dontbuypotteryfromme For This Useful Post:
Old 05-20-2019, 09:28 PM
SeaBeeDaddy's Avatar
SeaBeeDaddy SeaBeeDaddy is online now
For Conversation's Sake.
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,831
Thanks: 12,549
Thanked 17,169 Times in 5,286 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
If she is 12 wouldn't you just discipline her the same way you would for anything else?

You catch her. She gets the consequences.

It is not like a 12year old should be exposed to an assault if it can be avoided.
In this situation which way would you discipline your 12yo?
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to SeaBeeDaddy For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2019, 12:19 AM
Hal3134 Hal3134 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 45
Thanks: 13
Thanked 28 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Has she tried BJJ? I know you say she’s done some grappling, but BJJ is often at another level. Unless she is an exceptional grappler, chances are good it would be a humbling experience. And the great thing about BJJ is that you can spar at 100% without hurting your partner (or vice versa), and she can go up against all sizes of partners.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Hal3134 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2019, 12:37 AM
DisgruntledPatriot's Avatar
DisgruntledPatriot DisgruntledPatriot is offline
Hail to the King, Baby
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,229
Thanks: 2,494
Thanked 3,356 Times in 922 Posts
Default

See if you know any corrections officers that can show her what a real fight looks like without hurting her badly.

CO's have a master's degree in reality of fights, they often have to do it for a living, and for keeps.
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to DisgruntledPatriot For This Useful Post:
Old 05-24-2019, 12:41 AM
DisgruntledPatriot's Avatar
DisgruntledPatriot DisgruntledPatriot is offline
Hail to the King, Baby
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,229
Thanks: 2,494
Thanked 3,356 Times in 922 Posts
Default

I think something like this is what you guys are talking about:

Quick reply to this message
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DisgruntledPatriot For This Useful Post:
Old 05-25-2019, 07:56 PM
Jerry D Young's Avatar
Jerry D Young Jerry D Young is offline
www.jerrydyoung.com

 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Age: 66
Posts: 12,059
Thanks: 15,103
Thanked 62,602 Times in 8,963 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Take her out of the dojo environment and find someone near her age or younger that has some experience. Enough not to get hurt by her.

No uniforms. Street clothing, including dresses and skirts (some type of shorts underneath for modesty), Sunday-go-to-meetin' shoes (even low heels). A purse on her arm, hair done up. Heavy winter jackets. Winter boots. Possibly armor on under the street clothes for safety. Out on the grass in a park or your back yard. And the other person does the same, but with the instructions to 'cheat'. In other words, do not go by dojo rules. Nothing lethal, of course, but other than that, dirty tricks, trips, hair pulling, below the belt strikes, etc.

Have a few well-padded sparring weapons that would be applicable in a street encounter. Baseball bat, knives, nun-chucks, staff, rocks/bricks/piece of concrete, dirt to throw in the face (clean stuff you take with you). Might want to have a few others as agitators to egg the fight on, toss a few foam rocks to distract her. Some flour or chalk to throw out. Basically anything and everything that is not allowed in a dojo.

If you can get a blue gun or make one, if her opponent can get it out and simply say 'bang, you're dead, I win' then a very compelling lesson will be taught. Especially if it happens over and over, no matter what she tries to prevent it.

Do be careful not to turn her off the martial arts for what she does get out of it, or discourage her from taking actual combat fighting classes where the deadly arts are taught and not the competition and metaphysical arts that most martial arts are today.

Just my opinion.
__________________
Jerry D Young
Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Jerry D Young For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks



Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net