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Old 08-30-2010, 05:38 PM
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lol you need a schooling in your battle drills

you keep there heads down while your other team flanks them then they assault through then your team assaults through kiling any one left alive
I don't know about everyone else with real world experience, but from first hand experience, I can tell you all the tactical field manual stuff goes out the window in a real firefight. Rarely would anyone actually "maneuver", "flank", or "leapfrog" or whateverthaheck you read in books and field manuals...outside of training or in the rare cases of guys actually wanting to fight an extended firefight, which don't really happen.

It's probably different for everyone, but I know that not too many guys got to chase baddies around all tactical style...even if you did, I bet they were gone before anything ever really happened...
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
I don't know about everyone else with real world experience, but from first hand experience, I can tell you all the tactical field manual stuff goes out the window in a real firefight. Rarely would anyone actually "maneuver", "flank", or "leapfrog" or whateverthaheck you read in books and field manuals...outside of training or in the rare cases of guys actually wanting to fight an extended firefight, which don't really happen.

It's probably different for everyone, but I know that not too many guys got to chase baddies around all tactical style...even if you did, I bet they were gone before anything ever really happened...
that and the tactic vary from unit to unit i just posted the by the book stuff because the poster was saying suppressing fire is pointless/ only to keep em there till arty get there and i have been in a few firefights that lasted 8-15 minuts wich i would consider a pretty long for iraq standards and they did get flanked by second platoon
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
lol you need a schooling in your battle drills

you keep there heads down while your other team flanks them then they assault through then your team assaults through kiling any one left alive
Again, great military tactic. But a great way to take losses in the civilian world. I'd think that if you can keep their heads down, it's time to deass the situation in bounds.

My strategy is avoidance if at all possible. If not, then engage at a distance. Luckily distance is something we have plenty of here in the flat desert.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
that and the tactic vary from unit to unit i just posted the by the book stuff because the poster was saying suppressing fire is pointless/ only to keep em there till arty get there and i have been in a few firefights that lasted 8-15 minuts wich i would consider a pretty long for iraq standards and they did get flanked by second platoon
Right. Back to military again. In the civilian world, where are you going to get a second platoon? Or the first one for that matter?

I see this a lot here. "Back in 'nam or the box, we did this or that". Unless your survival group consists of your old war buddies, things are going to be very different here. The skills and lessons you learned in combat are invaluable. But a lot of the tactics are going be different.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:51 PM
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Good post Sootch!

What's with all the negative nancy's around here lately?

It's like doing doughnuts in your car in the snow, not everything has to serve some higher purpose of preparedness... its ok to just have fun sometimes.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
that and the tactic vary from unit to unit i just posted the by the book stuff because the poster was saying suppressing fire is pointless/ only to keep em there till arty get there and i have been in a few firefights that lasted 8-15 minuts wich i would consider a pretty long for iraq standards and they did get flanked by second platoon
Yeah, Second Platoon always pulls your fat outta the fire, don't they?

"C-130 rollin' down the strip,
2nd Platoon gonna take a lil' trip!"

Ah, gotta miss the good old days, huh?
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:06 PM
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Right. Back to military again. In the civilian world, where are you going to get a second platoon? Or the first one for that matter?

I see this a lot here. "Back in 'nam or the box, we did this or that". Unless your survival group consists of your old war buddies, things are going to be very different here. The skills and lessons you learned in combat are invaluable. But a lot of the tactics are going be different.
my group consists of 10 of them+family thank you very much my neighbore down the street is a pa and also was sf medical sgt in the 70s so i think were pretty set
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
that and the tactic vary from unit to unit i just posted the by the book stuff because the poster was saying suppressing fire is pointless/ only to keep em there till arty get there and i have been in a few firefights that lasted 8-15 minuts wich i would consider a pretty long for iraq standards and they did get flanked by second platoon
Right...suppressing fire is never pointless. Totally agree with you. But you can suppress a unit in different ways... But if you're civilians with no GPMG, limited ammo, and you know air or arty is coming within 20-30 minutes then wasting a bullet is just wasting a bullet....

Nothing suppresses an enemy better than his buddy getting his head blown off....I heard that years ago, and it's kind of obvious. Snipers have used just one shot to suppress even entire companies...I think it holds true that a civilian force with semi-autos should worry about making a few shots count, and bailing out before the enemy realizes exactly what's going on and someone gets hit...
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
Right...suppressing fire is never pointless. Totally agree with you. But you can suppress a unit in different ways... But if you're civilians with no GPMG, limited ammo, and you know air or arty is coming within 20-30 minutes then wasting a bullet is just wasting a bullet....

Nothing suppresses an enemy better than his buddy getting his head blown off....I heard that years ago, and it's kind of obvious. Snipers have used just one shot to suppress even entire companies...I think it holds true that a civilian force with semi-autos should worry about making a few shots count, and bailing out before the enemy realizes exactly what's going on and someone gets hit...
I would agree but I like being able to have my options open to maximise whatever options are presented to me in the situation just trying to get people to think more than in just one train of thought
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:33 AM
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I would agree but I like being able to have my options open to maximise whatever options are presented to me in the situation just trying to get people to think more than in just one train of thought
Good...nothing wrong with that. Every situation is different, and despite whatever inclination we all may have as far as tactics and such, sometimes opportunity presents itself to do something else with more effectiveness....every "leader" needs to be able to discern the situation and adjust accordingly. For example, there have been cases of typical shoot n' scoot iraqis detonating an EFP, disabling a small detachment, and then trying to overrun them, take hostages, steal weapons, armor, uniforms....etc...this has happened, i.e. nasiriyah....even with just small arms, convoys have been disabled and overrun...this is a dark truth that people don't think happens to us...

I mean, how could 3rd world iraqis with ak47s win small fights vs well trained U.S. soldiers with state of the art gear, weapons, vehicles, etc...but it has happened...
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
Good...nothing wrong with that. Every situation is different, and despite whatever inclination we all may have as far as tactics and such, sometimes opportunity presents itself to do something else with more effectiveness....every "leader" needs to be able to discern the situation and adjust accordingly. For example, there have been cases of typical shoot n' scoot iraqis detonating an EFP, disabling a small detachment, and then trying to overrun them, take hostages, steal weapons, armor, uniforms....etc...this has happened, i.e. nasiriyah....even with just small arms, convoys have been disabled and overrun...this is a dark truth that people don't think happens to us...

I mean, how could 3rd world iraqis with ak47s win small fights vs well trained U.S. soldiers with state of the art gear, weapons, vehicles, etc...but it has happened...

I know while I agree with you I tend to want more standoff distance being that i was the designated marksman in my squad but lwts say you have the best bolt action with the most awsome optics that would make a brain surgon look like an amature what happens when you come across a determined enemy sniping you get one shot by the second they will be pretty certian where your location is what happens when they rush your hide four rounds max in the rifle slow firring and large group coming your way your screwed

My personal oppinion is that conflict avoidance is th best solution but if and when you have to fight id rather stack the deck in my favor as much as i can

another thing is what exactly will the SHTF be no one knows and once it starts everything will be very fast and fluid so if you only plan for one type of opion be it defencive, offencive, lone wolf, large group you might find that because of the situation unfolding your plans now have to be scrapped and you need a contingincy plan if you only entertain one train of thought in your preps/ plans you could be dissadvantaging yourself with disasterus results.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:28 AM
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I know while I agree with you I tend to want more standoff distance being that i was the designated marksman in my squad
Well, I'll be..... whuttdaya know!

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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
but lwts say you have the best bolt action with the most awsome optics that would make a brain surgon look like an amature what happens when you come across a determined enemy sniping you get one shot by the second they will be pretty certian where your location is what happens when they rush your hide four rounds max in the rifle slow firring and large group coming your way your screwed
Well, that's why
1.) I have a semi-automatic rifle (true mbr) with 20rd & 30rd magazines.
2.) I have family and friends
3.) I plan to use the terrain and distance to my advantage.
4.) I have a plan before I make the decision to fire
5.) Know my area

I hope everyone out there does as well...

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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
My personal oppinion is that conflict avoidance is th best solution but if and when you have to fight id rather stack the deck in my favor as much as i can
x2

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Originally Posted by FarmerJohn View Post
another thing is what exactly will the SHTF be no one knows and once it starts everything will be very fast and fluid so if you only plan for one type of opion be it defencive, offencive, lone wolf, large group you might find that because of the situation unfolding your plans now have to be scrapped and you need a contingincy plan if you only entertain one train of thought in your preps/ plans you could be dissadvantaging yourself with disasterus results.

Agreed....
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
Well, that's why
1.) I have a semi-automatic rifle (true mbr) with 20rd & 30rd magazines.
2.) I have family and friends
3.) I plan to use the terrain and distance to my advantage.
4.) I have a plan before I make the decision to fire
5.) Know my area

I hope everyone out there does as well...
i know was just one scenario in a impossibly long list of possibilitys but i do see lots of posts about how some people think that there going to take there scoped rifle and go sniper/ commando without really seeming to have put much more thought into it than that they think too much of there abilitys and think theyl be on top of the food chain
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by hopnchop View Post
Well in 20 years I only put my 16 on full auto twice. Maybe I didn't have the average experience, but I found semi suited me for the vast majority of situations.

Having said that; it is fun to let it rock-n-roll.
I have had my M16 for 10 yrs and maybe had it on semi twice
I take it out its just for burning up ammo, i have guns i take out if i want to hit something and i do the long range precision thing alot, but theres something about throwin the switch back 2 notches and letting the gun eat.
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Heckler&Coke View Post
Right...suppressing fire is never pointless. Totally agree with you. But you can suppress a unit in different ways...
Like playing Justin Bieber and Miley Cirus really loud through big speakers?

That'd get my face in the dirt
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:41 PM
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seems to me like using full auto fire to suppress an enemy position while your own guys moved would be about the only truly useful reason for it that i could think of. and you would still want to burst it... I sure cant afford the ammo though.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by largewhiteguy View Post
seems to me like using full auto fire to suppress an enemy position while your own guys moved would be about the only truly useful reason for it that i could think of. and you would still want to burst it... I sure cant afford the ammo though.

semi auto is all you need and is much more controlable than auto/burst
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:44 AM
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Im just gonna throw this in...

IMHO (emphasis on the M and H), full auto validity depends on the gun. I mean, for example, an MP5 in semi auto... Not so useful, again, this is my point of view. Its a small round, and if the other person is wearing armor, or your in a CQB situation, or the moon is aligned wrong, ect etc etc. Point is, in a case like that, I dont think such a weapon would be quite as useful if only semi auto.

I think it'd be great if every person could own a full auto M60, but to try and compensate with a full auto M14 just isnt going to cut it. Some guns are designed for full auto, and within those designed for it, some are better suited for it.

The BAR, great gun, full auto only, but not exactly meant for accuracy.
M14, super accurate, was made full auto for a bit... Lets call that part a mistake at best.
PDW family, again, I would consider the situations these would be used it very condusive to full auto.

Mmhhmmm... I should have brought nomex.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:51 AM
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It's dark, all hell is breaking loose, incoming, outgoing, flares, explosions, total chaos, and a gook runs up to your bunker with a satchel charge. Now, is this a good time for a semi auto? Not me, give me my old M16A1 on full auto and we'll do the spray-n-pray.
There's a time and place for everything.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:42 PM
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Yeah, seems like you'd want F/A if you were going into a house you knew baddies were in.
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