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Old 02-05-2010, 06:39 PM
mightyoak mightyoak is offline
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Default AR 15 gun Test?



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I finally got my M4 style AR in. It's 5.45x39 and came in a kit.

I put it together and now I'm wondering about testing it out;

1. to break it in. I have 1000+ rounds.
2. to sight it in.
3. to see how much it can withstand without cleaning it/minimal maintinance.
It was about $500 total to build.

Now the question is what would you like to see me do with it to test it out?

I plan on putting the info in it's own thread.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:46 PM
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What company did you buy from ?
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:50 PM
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Bust the buttstock off against a tree, then test her for reliability. I joke. I'm interested as to how accurate your build is.
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:09 AM
mightyoak mightyoak is offline
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What company did you buy from ?
I bought the kit from Model1 and the lower from Rguns.net.

Cheap but it looks great. Especially when I ordered it last April these things were going for over $1500
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Old 02-06-2010, 09:17 AM
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Bust the buttstock off against a tree, then test her for reliability. I joke. I'm interested as to how accurate your build is.
I'm interested too and figured I'd use the Russian surplus, cheap dirty ass ammo. This will be basically the worst accuracy and dirtiest ammo I can find for the DIP system.

I also want to put a basic load down range as fast as I can load the mags. That's 4 reloadings for a total there of 360 rounds.

I think I'm going to find a cheap 2-4 power NC Star or BSA scope to test them out too.

I have a few ideas but looking for others. Especially from the AR bashers. I expect a few jams at least the first 500 rounds as that's the break in period.

All I'm going to do is make sure the bbl is clear and put a few drops of oil on the rings.

Then I'll post the results.
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:35 PM
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I'm not certain, but I don't think there's alot to be had as far as quality ammo in 5.45...you may be stuck with the Russian stuff.
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Old 02-06-2010, 01:50 PM
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Hornady makes V-max bullets and powder and stuffs them in wolf cases. Pretty soon, there will be a line of brass cased stuff. 5.45x39 is gaining speed.

How about a 300 yard accuracy test and some basic penetration tests. Like lining up water filled milk jugs. Or how many sheets of plywood is goes through. Maybe not scientific as ballisitc gel, but it does give some insight. Supposedly, 2" or water = 1" of flesh. I did this to find out what I like in .30-30, 7.62x39, 50 cal, and 38 special/357 from a rifle.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:50 PM
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Accuracy:
Buy a box of each type of factory ammo you plan to test. Zero the rifle. Use a scope.
Fire several five shot groups slowly from a bench rest. Keep good records. Note how the zero changes with different loads.

Follow a similar process for working up handloads. Load five or ten of each 1/2 gr load from minimum to maximum for a powder/bullet combination. Compare your groups from a bench rest under ideal conditions. Consider wind drift. Have another 'shoot off' to compare the best among several loads. Observe if the zero shifts from a clean, cold barrel to a warm barrel.

Exterior Ballistics:
Chronograph your most accurate loads and calculate the path using a ballistics program like the one at http://handloads.com/calc/index.html. Fire a few groups at long range to confirm your zero and the bullet path. If you are hitting where you expected at long range, the program will tell you where the bullet hits at shorter range.

Terminal Ballistics:
Simulate the real world as closely as you can. Ballistics Gel is more realistic than soaked newspaper, which is better than water jugs or plywood boards. All will give you a way to compare one bullet to another.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:11 PM
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Great ideas; keep them coming.
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:24 PM
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I hit the Chantilly gun show this weekend, 2-13-10, and picked up some cheap rifle scopes.

2 are NCSTARs. one is a 4" red dot, $60, and the other is a holographic site, $40. Both have a limited lifetime garrantee and are made for rifles, not bb guns or paintball.

I also picked up 2 Centerpoint scopes, Crossman BB guns, brands them as rifle scopes with a limited lifetime warranty. One is a red dot $35 and the other is a 3-9x50mm for $65. This one has paralax adjusting rangefinder and adjustable turrents for long range shooting. Dial in the range and just put the cross hairs on target.

I'll be testing that one out on my AR 10 also. I'm almost ready for the test just waiting for the weather to break a bit.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:50 PM
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Congrats! That's an interesting alternative to an AK-74...... what do you use as far as magazines, though? AK-74 mags or specially made 5.45 AR mags?
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyoak View Post
I think I'm going to find a cheap 2-4 power NC Star or BSA scope to test them out too. Then I'll post the results.
Carefull! dont want to upset the ninjas and armchair warriors!

On a serious note I would love to read your break in results, I have a few more lowers to build and the cost of that russian ammo makes it tempting.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patcash View Post
Accuracy:
Buy a box of each type of factory ammo you plan to test. Zero the rifle. Use a scope.
Fire several five shot groups slowly from a bench rest. Keep good records. Note how the zero changes with different loads.

Follow a similar process for working up handloads. Load five or ten of each 1/2 gr load from minimum to maximum for a powder/bullet combination. Compare your groups from a bench rest under ideal conditions. Consider wind drift. Have another 'shoot off' to compare the best among several loads. Observe if the zero shifts from a clean, cold barrel to a warm barrel.

Exterior Ballistics:
Chronograph your most accurate loads and calculate the path using a ballistics program like the one at http://handloads.com/calc/index.html. Fire a few groups at long range to confirm your zero and the bullet path. If you are hitting where you expected at long range, the program will tell you where the bullet hits at shorter range.

Terminal Ballistics:
Simulate the real world as closely as you can. Ballistics Gel is more realistic than soaked newspaper, which is better than water jugs or plywood boards. All will give you a way to compare one bullet to another.
What is the best/optimum range to check zero on the AR15/M4?
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Old 02-15-2010, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHTF-Alerts.com View Post
what do you use as far as magazines, though? AK-74 mags or specially made 5.45 AR mags?

You can use a typical 5.56/.223 magazine and follower or you can swap followers for a 5.45 follower. I've heard a few people having feeding issues loading a factory 5.56 mag up with 5.45 so I only load about 20rds in per mag.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by American ME! View Post
What is the best/optimum range to check zero on the AR15/M4?
Longer range is better once you get on the paper. If your groups are off 1/8 inch at 25 yards, that translates to 1 inch at 200 yards. At close range, exact measurement of the sights above the bore becomes more important. At long range, consider wind drift.

If you use ballistics tables and know the muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient of your bullet, you can check at almost any range. At a range that has only 50 and 100 yard targets, if you hit where you expect at 100 yards, you'll also be right at 50.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SHTF-Alerts.com View Post
Congrats! That's an interesting alternative to an AK-74...... what do you use as far as magazines, though? AK-74 mags or specially made 5.45 AR mags?
C Products I think makes the mags. I got 3- 30 rounders to start. I'll add more as I can.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by American ME! View Post
What is the best/optimum range to check zero on the AR15/M4?
I'm thinking 100 yards for zero with this bullet. I may do 200 but If I remember right the old M16A1 was zeroed at 100 meters for the xm193 round.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patcash View Post
Longer range is better once you get on the paper. If your groups are off 1/8 inch at 25 yards, that translates to 1 inch at 200 yards. At close range, exact measurement of the sights above the bore becomes more important. At long range, consider wind drift.

If you use ballistics tables and know the muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient of your bullet, you can check at almost any range. At a range that has only 50 and 100 yard targets, if you hit where you expect at 100 yards, you'll also be right at 50.
Exactly as I was thinking! I just had to see if I was missing out on some unknown info. Thanks!
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:52 AM
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Well I finally got a chance to get everything done. I had 3 different sites on the rifle, cheap ones.

1st was a NCSTAR 1X illuminated reticle scope that I liked best. $30 and the only problem I had was that the UP/Down turrent was backwards. It took me a while to figure out the problem. Apparently "UP" clockwise means down in chinese. The horizontal adjustment was fine.

2nd was a Center point scope also 1X and illuminated.

3rd was a NCSTAR reflex site that worked fine but I just wasn't fond of it.

All of them worked fine throughout the firing and torture test.

Rifle; first round was a stuck case. Remember I was using poly coated Russian surplus and the rifle is made with a tight chamber. I had 6 more jams through the first 100 rounds.

There was 1 jam for the next 200 rounds but once that rifle started getting dirty from the cordite powder it started jamming again.

Remember I fired it right from the build with no cleaning or lube.

The last 25 rounds I fired as fast as I could, using the NCSTAR illuminated scope. There were no jams and all the rounds hit within a 5" circle.

I decided to clean and lube before I fire again as the bolt is too dirty to slide properly and the gas rings are stuck.

Now I also shot a 5.56 target rifle and the 5.45x39 rounds are about 10X dirtier. The cordite would burn my eyes sometimes as I fired.

I attributed some of the jams to the magazines and others to the first round sticking to the wall of the hot chamber. That 1-2 extra seconds in the hot chamber I think would soften the poly coating so they'd stick.

I'll try non coated rounds in the future.

Also I noticed that the brass 5.56 rounds ejected a lot more of the heat generated with the case. The 5.45 cases weren't even hot just after firing so all of their heat was dumped into the rifle itself, along with all the powder residue. My hands were litterally black from handling the parts.

I recovered a few bullets and fragments and they seemed to work just like they're supposed to by having the tip bend over. The penetrator was interesting also.

Over all not bad. If I'd have lubed the gun I think it's have run all day

I'm just glad my back yard is finally dry enough to go out there.
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:00 PM
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Thanks for the update, mightyoak! Very interesting topic as I'm considering a 5.45x39 upper. I understand it's very similar to 5.56 ballistically so I have to decide if it's worth buying an upper to take advantage of the cheaper ammo available now. Probably would be worth it after a few thousand rounds. If standard AR mags don't work then that's probably the deal breaker for me.
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