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Old 01-30-2010, 02:04 PM
Redrooster Redrooster is offline
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As for AR15's being jam prone that is just not true. The H&K gas guns issued to special forces have proven more reliable in Afganistan. I am sure the H&K's cost a good bit more.
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:24 PM
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I just built my first AR last week and it was easy.
Lower from spikes tactical less than 100$ after my FFL fee.
16 inch armalite upper kit, DPMS lower kit and stock with wrench $720 to my door from gunbroker.
So I assembled the DPMS lower kit in about a hour Brownells has video's online to help.
Slapped on the 6 postion stock and pinned on the upper.
The big reason I went this way was to have it immediately and not pay $1k+ at a show.
Also I got the features I wanted.
I could have gotten a better price on a upper but armalite was rated pretty good.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:16 PM
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Kit guns are for hobbyist. Buy a complete rifle from a manufacture. If you don't have the coin at the moment, wait a little bit longer and save. Don't settle for a mix bag of Brand X lower, brand Z upper etc.You wouldn't drive a car built like that would ya?
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:50 PM
OlympicArmsFan OlympicArmsFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco79 View Post
Kit guns are for hobbyist. Buy a complete rifle from a manufacture. If you don't have the coin at the moment, wait a little bit longer and save. Don't settle for a mix bag of Brand X lower, brand Z upper etc.You wouldn't drive a car built like that would ya?
Now thats funny right there...............


You can build using any parts you want and have a great gun if not better then an off the shelf ABC brand.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco79 View Post
Kit guns are for hobbyist. Buy a complete rifle from a manufacture. If you don't have the coin at the moment, wait a little bit longer and save. Don't settle for a mix bag of Brand X lower, brand Z upper etc.You wouldn't drive a car built like that would ya?
What is the difference? Surely you dont think it is performance? My rifle is a complete mutt. I took a roggio stripped lower, dpms parts kit, and tapco 6 position stock to build my lower reciever. I added a stag complete upper. It works great.

I would bet money that you could take my lower and stick it with any upper and it would shoot. That is the beauty of the AR platform in my opinion is that you can the pins out and shoot all sorts of different uppers with the same lower.

To each his own though.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:37 AM
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Those are the stats that were told to me in a few different tactical schools (EST, SRT) I've attended. I've been told that buy a few different instructors. (not sure how factual that is) I don't believe that I've actually had that many malfunctions, misfeeds, double feeds or anything of the the sort. I was just throwing it out there. My duty Colt has had very few malfuntions. I would say fewer than 15 in the past 4 years that i have been carying it. That includes two Deployments to the sand box. I retract the comment... However I strongly agree in malfunction/ down gun/ transition drills. You can never have eough training in this area, IMO...
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OlympicArmsFan View Post
Now thats funny right there...............


You can build using any parts you want and have a great gun if not better then an off the shelf ABC brand.
What's funny is the fact you're not educated enough to know the difference in manufacturing processes, materials and overall quality. Coming from a guy who is a fan of a rifle company that uses cast parts and non-mil-spec standards, I would say you're out of lane and advise you to get back in it.Thanks.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by richis7 View Post
What is the difference? Surely you dont think it is performance? My rifle is a complete mutt. I took a roggio stripped lower, dpms parts kit, and tapco 6 position stock to build my lower reciever. I added a stag complete upper. It works great.

I would bet money that you could take my lower and stick it with any upper and it would shoot. That is the beauty of the AR platform in my opinion is that you can the pins out and shoot all sorts of different uppers with the same lower.

To each his own though.
If you care to educate yourself , i would suggest you take some time and look over this chart. Some learning might occur.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...QsEuEhjFwPrgTA
Kits guns are great for recreational shooters not gun fighters. If this is a hobby who cares. Others have more riding on their tools.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:50 PM
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Try these guys.Call and ask for Cody.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

I got an M&P 15 with quadrail,laser and red dot for $799 delivered.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Longrifle6 View Post
The average M-4, M-16, or AR-15 jams once every 70 rounds? I'm not trying to be abrasive here but there is just no other way to say it,this statement is patently false. Malfunction drills are essential but that should not be the preferred technique to deal with a weapon that malfunctions that often. If your particular rifle is malfunctioning that often it, and its magazines, should be inspected by your unit armorer.

I know its in vougue to trash the direct impingement AR platform and some of it is justified. The system isn't perfect and it does require more maintnance than a piston-driven gun but if the DI system was so awful it wouldn't have lasted this long. No matter what you may read on the internet, short-stroke gas piston guns break and have malfunctions too. Here are some of my first hand observations;
-Keep your weapon clean, pay particular attention to the bolt carrier group, your upper reciever, the barrel extension, and your chamber.
-Inspect your magazines, pay particular attention to the feed lips, a cracked feed lip is fairly common in military issued mags because they often get dropped during drills. Cracked feed lips are a quick way to get a double feed.
-Keep you weapon properly lubed, I like Mil-Tech but CLP works just fine if you don't overdo it in a desert environment.
-Most malfunctions are shooter induced and the result of a lack of training, a lack of effort, or a lack of discipline.
Most of all, and this has worked very well for me is takng your dremel and several polishing arbors evenly and thoroughly polishing the splines on the bolt and in the breach. Be careful NOT to remove ANY of the finish. It is a time consuming job but well worth the time and effort. I also polished the tops of my mags as well. Both my AR15 and M4 have no jam or feed issues.

Even with polishing you are also very slightly deburing too. My $0.02 worth.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by drummerdude1234 View Post
Hey guys, ive been toying with the idea of getting an AR15 for a bit... but i just don't have the cash to drop a thousand dollars on just a basic AR, when i could have an AK style rifle with a thousand rounds and an optic for that much.

My question is, does anyone know of some more affordable AR rifles? I know of Stag, which run around $800... And Ive also heard of kit guns, what about these?

What id like out of this gun is:
1) Flattop rail (no carry handle)
2)collapsible stock
3)short to medium length barrel
4) Quad rail (pushing it here)

Any help would be awesome! thanks
Here's your answer brother... www.sogarmory.com
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:26 PM
Longrifle6 Longrifle6 is offline
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Most of all, and this has worked very well for me is takng your dremel and several polishing arbors evenly and thoroughly polishing the splines on the bolt and in the breach. Be careful NOT to remove ANY of the finish. It is a time consuming job but well worth the time and effort. I also polished the tops of my mags as well. Both my AR15 and M4 have no jam or feed issues.

Even with polishing you are also very slightly deburing too. My $0.02 worth.
Not neccesarily a bad recommendation but I think the owner of flyboy1304's rifle might have something to say about that!
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:32 PM
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Build or buy is a good question.
I couldn't get the features I wanted without replacing parts if I bought.
So it was a no brainer to save money.
If the parts are in spec I really don't see any difference YMMV.
Others seem to have a strong opinion the other way.
They make some good points here.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=118&t=480636
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:39 PM
FrightenedWolfe FrightenedWolfe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco79 View Post
Kit guns are for hobbyist. Buy a complete rifle from a manufacture. If you don't have the coin at the moment, wait a little bit longer and save. Don't settle for a mix bag of Brand X lower, brand Z upper etc.You wouldn't drive a car built like that would ya?
Simply nonsense.

I don't like being called a hobbyist because I know far more than your average Joe gun owner and want a better rifle.

I don't care what you think, because you don't know what you are talking about.

I can't say this any other way.

Please keep your educated opinion to yourself unless you can be less abrasive.

r m
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco79 View Post
If you care to educate yourself , i would suggest you take some time and look over this chart. Some learning might occur.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...QsEuEhjFwPrgTA
Kits guns are great for recreational shooters not gun fighters. If this is a hobby who cares. Others have more riding on their tools.
Before I tell you why you are a tool, let me genuinely thank you for posting that spreadsheet, it is useful.

The title of this thread is affordable AR 15. Do you think that anyone who has "more riding on their tools" cares about the price of them? Clearly this guy is not heading to Iraq with his gun tomorrow, he is, as you like to put it a hobbyist.

If the OP was looking to get a job as a private contractor or something, then I can see him wanting some type of super badass rifle, but this is his first AR 15, he is just getting into the black rifle game so he would be fine with a kit gun if it would save him a few dollars, which it almost always will. Plus it sounds like he has some specific desires in the rifle, which often are easier to obtain if you put the gun together yourself.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco79 View Post
If you care to educate yourself , i would suggest you take some time and look over this chart. Some learning might occur.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...QsEuEhjFwPrgTA
Kits guns are great for recreational shooters not gun fighters. If this is a hobby who cares. Others have more riding on their tools.
So are you saying I can't purchase any of these parts and put them together myself into an upper and lower receiver?

Obviously there is a difference in parts when it comes to reliability, but what you are saying is ridiculous.
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco79 View Post
Kit guns are for hobbyist. Buy a complete rifle from a manufacture. If you don't have the coin at the moment, wait a little bit longer and save. Don't settle for a mix bag of Brand X lower, brand Z upper etc.You wouldn't drive a car built like that would ya?
Um.. yeah... I'd hate to have a custom built hot rod... or harley.. or house.....
\
wait. this is stupid. Most custom built stuff is better than mass manufactured! I love my "hobbyist guns!!"

Also - Let me tell you that my "kit" guns are much more reliable and better built than the COLT that I carried in the military!!
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Old 02-02-2010, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by richis7 View Post
Before I tell you why you are a tool, let me genuinely thank you for posting that spreadsheet, it is useful.

The title of this thread is affordable AR 15. Do you think that anyone who has "more riding on their tools" cares about the price of them? Clearly this guy is not heading to Iraq with his gun tomorrow, he is, as you like to put it a hobbyist.

If the OP was looking to get a job as a private contractor or something, then I can see him wanting some type of super badass rifle, but this is his first AR 15, he is just getting into the black rifle game so he would be fine with a kit gun if it would save him a few dollars, which it almost always will. Plus it sounds like he has some specific desires in the rifle, which often are easier to obtain if you put the gun together yourself.
I dont think most of the items on that list qualify as "superbadassrifle" features, alot of them are standard requirements nowadays for ARs. Of course not all ARs come with them, but most have at least some of those features, and many who have built their own rifles built them with most or even all of those features. And theyre not just random, useless features, but they help with overall reliability. Plus, to say that none of us need them or that the OP doesnt need them because hes not a contractor isnt your call. If he has to, at any point use this rifle to defend himself or others, he's going to want as many pluses going for him as he can, and none of these features are going to hurt his chances. Not trying to argue, just showing a point of view.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Masss View Post
I dont think most of the items on that list qualify as "superbadassrifle" features, alot of them are standard requirements nowadays for ARs. Of course not all ARs come with them, but most have at least some of those features, and many who have built their own rifles built them with most or even all of those features. And theyre not just random, useless features, but they help with overall reliability. Plus, to say that none of us need them or that the OP doesnt need them because hes not a contractor isnt your call. If he has to, at any point use this rifle to defend himself or others, he's going to want as many pluses going for him as he can, and none of these features are going to hurt his chances. Not trying to argue, just showing a point of view.
You seriously misread my post.

I wasnt saying anything about that. I was responding the gentlemen that said he should buy his rifle instead of building it. That person seemed to be making the case that he was going to war with his rifle, and I dont think this is the case, at least thats probably not the plan.

I dont care what he wants on his rifle. You can find a rifle the way you want it, but the easiest way is to build it, thats the point I was trying to make.

Just for the record, I have all the features the OP wanted on my rifle and I dont consider it superbadass. Just a basic AR.
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Old 02-03-2010, 04:00 PM
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Last year I purchased my second AR, which is a DPMS, 16" barrel, M4 version. I previously had a post ban (Bought in 1998) Colt Match Target 20" barrel which shot very nicely.

I got the DPMS for 700 new at a gun store and wasn't quite sure what to expect. I have about 1k rounds through it, and haven't had any issues yet with misfires or misfeeds. During this break in period I tried to ride it hard (burning through magazines quickly, letting it sit without cleaning between few hundred round sessions) so that if there are any issues, they will show up early (which I have heard is usually the case with AR's). I still want at least another thousand through it before I feel completely comfortable, but it has shot everything I have put through it with more than servicable accuracy. I have fired reloads, milsurp ammo, and a variety of factory loads with satisfaction.

As with anything you buy that has many moving parts, there is always a chance of failure. I'm sure you could find folks that have had problems with their particular DPMS rifles, but when I researched mine before I bought it, an overwhelming majority of the reviews were positive and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking for a fairly inexpensive base model AR.

Hope this helps

Last edited by Irishmike223; 02-03-2010 at 04:03 PM.. Reason: spelling
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