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-   -   Cracks in the EU are showing (Immigration & Brexit) (https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=895656)

DarkPhoenix13 07-11-2018 01:16 AM

Cracks in the EU are showing (Immigration & Brexit)
 
Summary of Recent Events:
  • Merkel is very close to losing a major coalition partner over her Open Arms policy. If she does, Merkel will fall.
  • Italy, Austria, Poland and Bulgaria (among others) are firmly against Brussels on Immigration.
  • Sweden is FINALLY responding to the crisis as an Anti-Immigration party is surging in pre-election polling.
  • The Recent EU "Summit" meant to hash out differences on Immigration produced no progress for supporters of Open Arms.
  • British PM Teresa May is facing a party revolt at home as two members of her Cabinet resigned over her concessions to the EU in Brexit talks. She may face a No Confidence vote in the near future.
If you take them individually, it doesn't feel like a big deal. When you take it all in (among other rumblings in the bloc), I wonder if this isn't the beginning of the end for the EU. Merkel is in real danger, especially since her coalition is barely 100 days old.

I've heard rumblings of a new potential voting bloc in the EU Parliament made up of former Soviet satellites and the Nordic countries. If it pans out, they will have the voting power to push back against the bureaucrats.

Thoughts? Anyone from inside the EU have some insights that Reuters is missing?

LoveLife 07-11-2018 01:38 AM

Anti immigration, and nationalism, is a world-wide political phenomenon.
Unfortunately, it is not necessarily anti Socialism.
In addition, unbridled nationalism can be anti competitive.

Fair trade and logical, controlled, and vetted immigration are good things.
Trade wars and locked-down borders are not.

Everything in moderation.
Extremism in anything is unhealthy.

Pitbull_Dallas 07-11-2018 07:13 AM

I hope so. I saw a news report yesterday that said the average Brit's are getting real angry with May because she is pushing and maneuvering for a Brexit light. I think in the end she's going to go down.

InOmaha 07-11-2018 08:14 AM

Trump coming in swinging at the NATO conference might add some pressure too. He mentioned members not pulling their weight financially and members wanting protection from the same Russia they are beholden to for natural gas and oil.

Neut Anderson 07-11-2018 08:21 AM

Worldwide chaos usually is the prelude to war.

LoveLife 07-11-2018 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neut Anderson (Post 18922624)
Worldwide chaos usually is the prelude to war.

Or, sometimes it requires a disruptor to start a prescribed burn.
You know, where you set a small fire in order to preclude a future wildfire.

Trumps arguments are simple, yet articulate:
- if all NATO countries spend 2% of GDP, you will overwhelm the Russian threat.
- why do NATO countries buy oil/NatGas from Russia? Giving cash to the country NATO say it is afraid of.
- If NATO would take care of its own defense, the USA could pivot to containing China

franklin 07-11-2018 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLife (Post 18922664)
Or, sometimes it requires a disruptor to start a prescribed burn.
You know, where you set a small fire in order to preclude a future wildfire.

Trumps arguments are simple, yet articulate:
- if all NATO countries spend 2% of GDP, you will overwhelm the Russian threat.
- why do NATO countries buy oil/NatGas from Russia? Giving cash to the country NATO say it is afraid of.
- If NATO would take care of its own defense, the USA could pivot to containing China

Merkel must take us for idiots. Well maybe Obama gave her that impression.

Trump: You should start paying more for your own defenses.
Merkel: We are stronger when we stand united.
Trump: It would be easier to protect you if you didn't buy gas from the guy who is using that money to build weapons against you.
Merkel: That is an internal decision of the German people.
Trump: Maybe the US should spend less on your defense.
Merkel: We all stand stronger together.
Trump: That is an internal decision to be made by the American people.
Merkel: I hope you don't agree to anything with Putin, he is evil.
Trump: You won't save yourselves, he can have you.

I understand Germany has very few fighter aircraft that are airworthy, many ships in disrepair, and soldiers without rifles. (They do have broomsticks.) I view this as a good thing. When the Muslims take over they will have fewer weapons to use against us.

franklin 07-11-2018 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neut Anderson (Post 18922624)
Worldwide chaos usually is the prelude to war.

When in the last Century has there not been worldwide chaos? Maybe a few years in the early 90s?

Asag 07-11-2018 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitbull_Dallas (Post 18922544)
I hope so. I saw a news report yesterday that said the average Brit's are getting real angry with May because she is pushing and maneuvering for a Brexit light. I think in the end she's going to go down.

The average person over here just wants to know what deal we are getting and how will it affect them.

justin22885 07-11-2018 02:19 PM

if these countries are in fact forced by trump to pay more into NATO or their own military, or we leave NATO, then the EU socialist project will come to an end almost overnight.. those policies only last until the government runs out of everyone elses money, and itd appear they are almost out of everyone elses money

Asag 07-11-2018 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin22885 (Post 18923292)
if these countries are in fact forced by trump to pay more into NATO or their own military, or we leave NATO, then the EU socialist project will come to an end almost overnight.. those policies only last until the government runs out of everyone elses money, and itd appear they are almost out of everyone elses money

Or maybe if the 2% criteria is a hard line and seen as an accompaniment to the current tariffs could act as a cohesive force amongst EU nations.
Given our ropey economic situation France could replace the U.K. as the number one US partner according to Mattis.
I am all for flushing NATO down the drain and hopefully seeing the back of US forces including their creepy spying apparatus. Love you guys but it’s time to go home for the benefit of the US economy.

justin22885 07-11-2018 02:51 PM

when the UK is out, the financial burden it puts on remaining nations is only going to exacerbate more of them dropping out.. and theres already other countries about to drop out anyway.. the EU is already collapsing, nothings going to stop it at this point and i have quite a few friends in europe that are quite afraid their own western countries are going to look like romania in the early 90s

TENNGRIZZ 07-11-2018 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neut Anderson (Post 18922624)
Worldwide chaos usually is the prelude to war.

LET SLIP THE DOGS AND UNLEASH THE KRAKEN:thumb:

Ankylus 07-11-2018 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix13 (Post 18922368)
Summary of Recent Events:
  • Merkel is very close to losing a major coalition partner over her Open Arms policy. If she does, Merkel will fall.
  • Italy, Austria, Poland and Bulgaria (among others) are firmly against Brussels on Immigration.
  • Sweden is FINALLY responding to the crisis as an Anti-Immigration party is surging in pre-election polling.
  • The Recent EU "Summit" meant to hash out differences on Immigration produced no progress for supporters of Open Arms.
  • British PM Teresa May is facing a party revolt at home as two members of her Cabinet resigned over her concessions to the EU in Brexit talks. She may face a No Confidence vote in the near future.
If you take them individually, it doesn't feel like a big deal. When you take it all in (among other rumblings in the bloc), I wonder if this isn't the beginning of the end for the EU. Merkel is in real danger, especially since her coalition is barely 100 days old.

I've heard rumblings of a new potential voting bloc in the EU Parliament made up of former Soviet satellites and the Nordic countries. If it pans out, they will have the voting power to push back against the bureaucrats.

Thoughts? Anyone from inside the EU have some insights that Reuters is missing?

I am not inside the EU, but this was the big gamble on the Euro. The "wealthy" nations like UK, France, and Germany manage their monetary policy very differently than do some of their southern spendthrift members like Italy, Greece, etc. The way the spendthrifts manage their money is to run up a lot of debt then inflate or devalue the currency, etc., things like that.

Well, the Euro is run by the money boys Germany and France, and so the spendthrifts couldn't do that. The spendthrifts then ran up all this debt like they always do and said to the EU, "We need a bailout because you won't let us trash the Euro and we can't pay our debts. Either we default, which you don't want, or we leave the Euro, which you don't want, or you give us a bailout."

None of those parties wanted the EU to break up, and the UK was not in the Euro anyway, so France and Germany kicked the can down the road and gave them tons of money.

It's just a matter of time.

Harmless Drudge 07-11-2018 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asag (Post 18923344)
Or maybe if the 2% criteria is a hard line and seen as an accompaniment to the current tariffs could act as a cohesive force amongst EU nations.
Given our ropey economic situation France could replace the U.K. as the number one US partner according to Mathis.
I am all for flushing NATO down the drain and hopefully seeing the back of US forces including their creepy spying apparatus. Love you guys but itís time to go home for the benefit of the US economy.

Agree, but your government would never give up their access to that creepy spying apparatus. They get Five Eyes status without having to pull their weight. So do the Commonwealth countries, who mooch even more. The US should leave and let you call it "Four Eyes," an ironic indictment of how inept it would be without our leadership. That would solve a LOT of problems.

In fact, if the US would just pull out of a lot of these agreements, both parties to them would "suffer," to the benefit of liberty.

Runamok 07-11-2018 06:54 PM

You mean to tell me that countries who have been warring for the better part of 2000 years and are in many instances diametrically opposed culturally, couldn't make it last? Color me shocked.

The EU has always been a globalist scheme. The problem is that once they went the collectivist route everyone stopped working and took the handouts. Same here in the USA.

To top it all off the vast majority of European states have been riding the back of the American Eagle so that the Russian Bear couldn't eat them. Now that the Eagle is saying they are tired of carrying the load and ready to dump some passengers the EU/NATO act like we are acting against our own self interest. It was NEVER in our national interest to be in Europe. The only reason we were there was because they were incapable of defending themselves from authoritarianism, TWICE!

Now they still want the USA there, they just wish we would shut our mouths and pay the tab. As we have always done since the day of the American Doughboys. Trump points out glaring military security loopholes (like getting 70% of your energy from the country your alliance is against) and he is pilloried at home and abroad by the ignorant. To win a war with Germany all Russia would have to do would be cut off the pipelines. Done deal.

TENNGRIZZ 07-11-2018 07:35 PM

President Trump goes to London soon before he meets with President Putin on Monday. IMHO you can bet every SJW DEMOCRATIC COMMIE FROM ALL OVER THE EU WILL BE THERE TO RIOT! In addition many of us may be proven exactly right about the number of MUSLIM sleeper cells that have embedded themselves in Europe disguised has refugees. I hope and PRAY I am wrong but LONDON HAS FALLEN ALREADY. JMHO

Asag 07-12-2018 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge (Post 18923602)
Agree, but your government would never give up their access to that creepy spying apparatus. They get Five Eyes status without having to pull their weight. So do the Commonwealth countries, who mooch even more. The US should leave and let you call it "Four Eyes," an ironic indictment of how inept it would be without our leadership. That would solve a LOT of problems.

In fact, if the US would just pull out of a lot of these agreements, both parties to them would "suffer," to the benefit of liberty.

Once upon a time I believed participating in global surveillance programs was beneficial but I now consider it detrimental to the liberty of citizens of all nations involved.

KLF 07-12-2018 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoveLife (Post 18922664)
- why do NATO countries buy oil/NatGas from Russia? Giving cash to the country NATO say it is afraid of.

Lack of alternative.

For some stupid fukushima related scares germans decided to shut down 17 nuclear reactors they had by 2022. Instead that power needs to be provided by burning coal and gas.

Then there is this:
http://rinf.com/alt-news/wp-content/...7.42.35-PM.png
Many of you have seen it before. The needed alternative to russian gas pipe, not much happening anymore since that area is pretty much russian domain now. Those who say otherwise will hanged without proper process. :taped:

Hagalaz 07-12-2018 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neut Anderson (Post 18922624)
Worldwide chaos usually is the prelude to war.

I was thinking that as well.


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