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-   -   Crossing The Line. Martial Arts Creating More Danger (https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=918290)

SeaBeeDaddy 05-20-2019 01:26 PM

Crossing The Line. Martial Arts Creating More Danger
 
A bit of a dramatic headline but since you are here would like your input. Especially if you are a martial artist or trainer.

My daughter has been in Kung Fu, Striking, Grappling, and Weapons Sparring/Training for almost 4 years. It has been great for her and she does well, but it has greatly skewed her concept of realty. Since she is tall and strong for her age she attends the adult classes were she does fairly well against people 4+ years older than her.

This has created somewhat of an ego and skewed view of her capabilities in a real World situation. I like her confidence and her feeling capable but it has crossed the line into a false sense of security.

I would like to bring her back down to Earth without squashing her confidence and eagerness to train.

Any thoughts?

TRyan 05-20-2019 01:39 PM

I train by myself these days just to keep in shape. But in my younger days (early 20's) when I was tournament fighting I developed a bit of a ego myself. My instructor noticed this so one day during sparring he paired me with a little girl. I told him I couldn't fight her and I was afraid I would hurt her. He told me just to do it and take it easy on her. I said ok and we began. She picked me apart. I was bigger and stronger but, even though unassuming, she was more skilled than me.

I learned never to take my opponent for granted or underestimate them. Maybe your daughter needs a lesson like that.

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ajole 05-20-2019 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy (Post 19534992)
A bit of a dramatic headline but since you are here would like your input. Especially if you are a martial artist or trainer.

My daughter has been in Kung Fu, Striking, Grappling, and Weapons Sparring/Training for almost 4 years. It has been great for her and she does well, but it has greatly skewed her concept of realty. Since she is tall and strong for her age she attends the adult classes were she does fairly well against people 4+ years older than her.

This has created somewhat of an ego and skewed view of her capabilities in a real World situation. I like her confidence and her feeling capable but it has crossed the line into a false sense of security.

I would like to bring her back down to Earth without squashing her confidence and eagerness to train.

Any thoughts?

Find a partner that can beat her without hurting her.

Put her in a harder class.

Take her to the range or hunting; shoot some targets of wood or cans or bottles that demonstrate the impact and power; so she understands you can't kick a bullet out of the air, nor choke it out, and remind her, bad guys don't fight fair, and tapping out isn't an option.

Do they do any 2 on 1 work beyond kata? That changes any martial art.


We have this issue often with our school teams, we can destroy the region, but we get to state and the level changes; even though we CAN compete and do well, it's far harder and if we haven't got their heads on right, it can be a disaster.

Kudos for staying ahead of the curve with your daughter.:thumb:

sonya1 05-20-2019 01:53 PM

Oh man, I think maybe our daughters must be kindred spirits!

She got her black belt in Karate at 16, started at age 4 ( I have done some form of martial arts until I was in my mid 40s and got too old to spar and get injuries all the time ....)

She is now i26 and just joined the Navy ( currently at boot camp), and yes, she thinks she is invincible...
Her idea of fun is jumping out of a plane with a parachute

My thoughts on yours: teach her to shoot. A bullet stops a martial artists most of the time. Even if she was the best fighter ever, if someone shoots her from a distance it won't do her any good. Make this clear to her. Martial arts is ok for self defense if she learns it from a good sensei. If it is strictly for sports, and all about fighting with rules, it's useless for self defense. She needs to learn from someone that teaches real fighting and self defense. Hope this helps

ajole 05-20-2019 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonya1 (Post 19535048)
it's useless for self defense.

Not useless, just limited. The bad guy chooses the place and time, as well as the weapons. If they choose wrong, she has a chance.

But there are SO many ways they can choose that negate hand to hand abilities.

sonya1 05-20-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajole (Post 19535062)
Not useless, just limited. The bad guy chooses the place and time, as well as the weapons. If they choose wrong, she has a chance.

But there are SO many ways they can choose that negate hand to hand abilities.

You didn't read my comment right. I said it is useless IF YOU LEARN IT AS A SPORT. There is a big difference in learning something like Taek Won Do for sports, where you fight to score points, and learning basically how to hurt someone that attacks you. I learned from someone in law enforcement that did this on the side. We did things like spar in street clothes in the parking lot no pads, no head gear. The women and girls had to fight the big guys and put them on the ground, because that is what they might come up against in real life. And the guys were NOT allowed to "take it easy" on the girls, if they did, they got their butts kicked by sensei

dontbuypotteryfromme 05-20-2019 04:53 PM

42 Attachment(s)
MMA fight.

If you don't learn martial arts as a sport it is basically useless for self defense.

Lost Woods Survival 05-20-2019 05:17 PM

I agree that kids can get a big ego from the classes and then leads them to problems later in life when they figure out that classroom martial arts are not the same as real-world fighting. I don't care much for it in a classroom. I did do MMA for a while but basically to learn how to punch and kick and grapple.

Sinthor 05-20-2019 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy (Post 19534992)
A bit of a dramatic headline but since you are here would like your input. Especially if you are a martial artist or trainer.

My daughter has been in Kung Fu, Striking, Grappling, and Weapons Sparring/Training for almost 4 years. It has been great for her and she does well, but it has greatly skewed her concept of realty. Since she is tall and strong for her age she attends the adult classes were she does fairly well against people 4+ years older than her.

This has created somewhat of an ego and skewed view of her capabilities in a real World situation. I like her confidence and her feeling capable but it has crossed the line into a false sense of security.

I would like to bring her back down to Earth without squashing her confidence and eagerness to train.

Any thoughts?

I saw you said she's done grappling as well so I assume she trains in a school or schools that do actual one on one sparring/training rather than just kata? Put her in a more advanced class or have her work out with some males who you can trust. Confidence is great, but if it expands to cockiness it can be dangerous. I liked a lot of the other suggestions here as well. Maybe talk to her instructor if there's not another good option. When I was training, especially children or teens sometimes I had to take a hand and help educate the students when they got a little too above themselves.

SeaBeeDaddy 05-20-2019 06:35 PM

Thanks for the great insights! For clarification, she is a 12yo that is the size of most 18 year old females.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinthor (Post 19535566)
I saw you said she's done grappling as well so I assume she trains in a school or schools that do actual one on one sparring/training rather than just kata? Put her in a more advanced class or have her work out with some males who you can trust. Confidence is great, but if it expands to cockiness it can be dangerous. I liked a lot of the other suggestions here as well. Maybe talk to her instructor if there's not another good option. When I was training, especially children or teens sometimes I had to take a hand and help educate the students when they got a little too above themselves.

Thanks. Yes, the school is Kung Fu as the discipline/art but 5 nights of the week she is in grappling, sparring, weapon sparring, and weapons training so there is lots of mixed sparring and it is mixed gender so she gets a bit of hands on experience with different opponents.

My main concern is that she thinks she can fight adults or put herself in situations where she should run instead of fight.

For example. Answering the door without checking who is there is a big no-no in our house. I have caught her doing it a few times and her answer is "Well I will just choke them out" etc..

Not the end of the World but a somewhat dangerous mindset to have at such a young age.

swamppapa 05-20-2019 07:14 PM

it is not just the martial arts students my daughter that I taught to shoot then was raised by her liberal mother. would spout the "I'm a strong independent woman and if a man tries to hurt me I'll kick him in the balls" bull**** camp.

she married a guy on his way to Schofield barracks. once there they had a domestic , he beat her bad enough that she wound up in the hospital. then put on the plane home with an escort
(I heard this 2 years after the fact through a third party)

when she was young I wondered the same thing "how do you show them it's not true without maiming or crushing them?"

SeaBeeDaddy 05-20-2019 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamppapa (Post 19535708)
it is not just the martial arts students my daughter that I taught to shoot then was raised by her liberal mother. would spout the "I'm a strong independent woman and if a man tries to hurt me I'll kick him in the balls" bull**** camp.

she married a guy on his way to Schofield barracks. once there they had a domestic , he beat her bad enough that she wound up in the hospital. then put on the plane home with an escort
(I heard this 2 years after the fact through a third party)

when she was young I wondered the same thing "how do you show them it's not true without maiming or crushing them?"

Great example. I think it can be applied throughout the self-defense realm male and female, young and old.

ForgedInTheFlame 05-20-2019 07:25 PM

Boxing, and MMA, and maybe some Muay Thai will have legit sparring.

She needs to actually fight, at an amateur level, to get a taste of actual combat in combat sports.

Other than that, it's hard to know if someone knows / thinks their self defense abilities are for real until they are in a situation where they need them, and no one wants that for a loved one.

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Sinthor 05-20-2019 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy (Post 19535630)
Thanks for the great insights! For clarification, she is a 12yo that is the size of most 18 year old females.



Thanks. Yes, the school is Kung Fu as the discipline/art but 5 nights of the week she is in grappling, sparring, weapon sparring, and weapons training so there is lots of mixed sparring and it is mixed gender so she gets a bit of hands on experience with different opponents.

My main concern is that she thinks she can fight adults or put herself in situations where she should run instead of fight.

For example. Answering the door without checking who is there is a big no-no in our house. I have caught her doing it a few times and her answer is "Well I will just choke them out" etc..

Not the end of the World but a somewhat dangerous mindset to have at such a young age.

Ah, I see. Size and strength definitely help in martial arts. The only problem is (obviously), she still won't compare to the average man in strength. I'd talk things over with the instructor then. Some of this..you'll likely have to wait on and have her learn thru experience, unfortunately. There should be an adult womens class she could join though that might help. Teenagers! Hmmmphf! :) Good luck, sir!

dontbuypotteryfromme 05-20-2019 08:26 PM

If she is 12 wouldn't you just discipline her the same way you would for anything else?

You catch her. She gets the consequences.

It is not like a 12year old should be exposed to an assault if it can be avoided.

SeaBeeDaddy 05-20-2019 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme (Post 19535838)
If she is 12 wouldn't you just discipline her the same way you would for anything else?

You catch her. She gets the consequences.

It is not like a 12year old should be exposed to an assault if it can be avoided.

In this situation which way would you discipline your 12yo?

Hal3134 05-23-2019 11:19 PM

Has she tried BJJ? I know you say she’s done some grappling, but BJJ is often at another level. Unless she is an exceptional grappler, chances are good it would be a humbling experience. And the great thing about BJJ is that you can spar at 100% without hurting your partner (or vice versa), and she can go up against all sizes of partners.

DisgruntledPatriot 05-23-2019 11:37 PM

See if you know any corrections officers that can show her what a real fight looks like without hurting her badly.

CO's have a master's degree in reality of fights, they often have to do it for a living, and for keeps.

DisgruntledPatriot 05-23-2019 11:41 PM

I think something like this is what you guys are talking about:


Jerry D Young 05-25-2019 06:56 PM

Take her out of the dojo environment and find someone near her age or younger that has some experience. Enough not to get hurt by her.

No uniforms. Street clothing, including dresses and skirts (some type of shorts underneath for modesty), Sunday-go-to-meetin' shoes (even low heels). A purse on her arm, hair done up. Heavy winter jackets. Winter boots. Possibly armor on under the street clothes for safety. Out on the grass in a park or your back yard. And the other person does the same, but with the instructions to 'cheat'. In other words, do not go by dojo rules. Nothing lethal, of course, but other than that, dirty tricks, trips, hair pulling, below the belt strikes, etc.

Have a few well-padded sparring weapons that would be applicable in a street encounter. Baseball bat, knives, nun-chucks, staff, rocks/bricks/piece of concrete, dirt to throw in the face (clean stuff you take with you). Might want to have a few others as agitators to egg the fight on, toss a few foam rocks to distract her. Some flour or chalk to throw out. Basically anything and everything that is not allowed in a dojo.

If you can get a blue gun or make one, if her opponent can get it out and simply say 'bang, you're dead, I win' then a very compelling lesson will be taught. Especially if it happens over and over, no matter what she tries to prevent it.

Do be careful not to turn her off the martial arts for what she does get out of it, or discourage her from taking actual combat fighting classes where the deadly arts are taught and not the competition and metaphysical arts that most martial arts are today.

Just my opinion.


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