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-   -   Haganah opinions (https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=351866)

Hick 05-26-2014 04:43 AM

Haganah opinions
 
So there is a dojo nearby that teaches haganah. I went in & watched one session & spoke with the instructor quite a bit.

The instructor is nice & everything, "war" stories and such.

However, what I witnessed him teaching was mostly just a joke.

It was populated mostly with children instead of adult students.

The biggest joke I witnessed was his belt system. Kids at ages of perhaps 10-12 were wearing blackbelts & they were absolutely sloppy on their techniques. All were quite sloppy & unskilled in there training.

Nothing I saw looked even close to haganah it was more of a poor excuse for karate.

The question I am asking is should I even bother to continue to explore this dojo. I live in a very small town & very limited options for any self defense training & dont wish to throw my money away on nonsense.

Should I go view more sessions & just write it off as everyone was having a bad day, full moon and all. Or dont bother?

Opinions? please. Mahalo.

SamboRoberts 05-26-2014 05:05 AM

What have you got to lose by further investigation? Time, that's all, and you've got the rest of your life.

What have you got to lose by being taught something that's practically useless? The rest of your life, that's all.

SeekHer 05-26-2014 06:42 AM

You sure you don't mean Krav Maga as Haganah was the underground military in Palestine during the British Occupation?

Maybe it was a kid's class, ever think about that...My youngest had her 1st black in Tae Kwon Do at age 12.

SamboRoberts 05-26-2014 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeekHer (Post 6592888)
You sure you don't mean Krav Maga as Haganah was the underground military in Palestine during the British Occupation?

I don't think he means that mob.
http://www.haganah-usa.com/

TSilant 05-26-2014 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamboRoberts (Post 6592839)
What have you got to lose by further investigation? Time, that's all, and you've got the rest of your life.

What have you got to lose by being taught something that's practically useless? The rest of your life, that's all.

This needs to go on a banner or something. :thumb:

arleigh 05-26-2014 07:38 AM

If you are sharp enough to spot the skill levels and there weaknesses then your sharp enough to make a difference there .
Do better than you ,if you know the moves.
Hang a dummy bag and mirror and camera and refine your skills .
An honest artist is his best critic .

Hick 05-26-2014 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeekHer (Post 6592888)
You sure you don't mean Krav Maga as Haganah was the underground military in Palestine during the British Occupation?

Maybe it was a kid's class, ever think about that...My youngest had her 1st black in Tae Kwon Do at age 12.

actually what they have advertised is F.I.G.H.T
http://fugetaboutit.net/wp-content/u...06/haganah.jpg

But again, it wasnt this. Like i said, it looked more like a poorly taught shorin ryu(karate).

It wasn't a kids class. It was an adult/kids mixed (according to the instructor)

I think i might go again to watch but if its more of the same I will look elseware

I would want to learn krav maga or haganah but it appears its not offered.

Jaqhama 05-26-2014 09:18 PM

That logo..

I'm not sure the Israeli's ever called themselves or were classed as guerilla fighters.

synonyms: freedom fighter, underground fighter, irregular soldier, irregular, resistance fighter, member of the resistance, partisan

Your observations on the training at that place don't seem very positive...is there no MMA gym near you?
Does no one do boxing, even?
My thought was you might be better served working out for strength and fitness at a regular gym and also partaking of some boxing or MMA if it is available.

SeekHer 05-26-2014 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamboRoberts (Post 6592889)
I don't think he means that mob.
http://www.haganah-usa.com/

Ex Krav Maga instructor's techniques under a different label.

Not saying it's good or bad as I'd never heard of it until this posting but from what I'm found online, it isn't [as] well known or endorsed as Krav.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hick (Post 6593934)
actually what they have advertised is F.I.G.H.T

But again, it wasn't this. Like i said, it looked more like a poorly taught shorin ryu(karate).

It wasn't a kids class. It was an adult/kids mixed (according to the instructor)

I think i might go again to watch but if its more of the same I will look elsewhere

I would want to learn krav maga or haganah but it appears its not offered.

If he's advertising that he's "haganah" then he has to be endorsed by the world renowned body of instructors <<sarcasm>> that form the group--otherwise there is a chance for a lawsuit against the dojo.

At no time had Israeli or Palestinian Jewish military ever called themselves guerrillas or freedom fighters for that fact...They may have been labeled that by the British and Arabs but not by themselves.

Quote:

Haganah (The Defence) was a Jewish paramilitary organization in what was then the British Mandate of Palestine from 1920 to 1948, which later became the core of the Israel Defense Forces.
The predecessor of Haganah was Hashomer ("The Watchman") established in 1909, itself a successor of Bar-Giora, founded in 1907. The Bar-Giora consisted of a small group of Jewish immigrants who guarded settlements for an annual fee. At no time did the group have more than 100 members
In 1931, the more militant elements of the Haganah splintered off and formed the Irgun.
The jews were able to join the British Army since about 1940 and in 1943 the Brits formed The Jewish Brigade but this was unit warfare against German troops in North Africa and Italy...In 1941, the Haganah created the "Palmach" an elite commando section that received specialist training in guerilla tactics and sabotage from the British Army in preparation against the possibility of a British withdrawal and Axis invasion of Palestine
I've had family in Israel since the late 1910s, early 1920s in Haganah, Palmach and Jewish Brigade and they have fought in every war that Israel was involved in (including the Arab Riots of the 1920s and later in the 1980s--Intifada) including myself during the Yom Kippur War.

Hick 05-26-2014 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaqhama (Post 6594425)
Your observations on the training at that place don't seem very positive...is there no MMA gym near you?
Does no one do boxing, even?

Nope, nothing of the sort. All I have found is this & an aikido studio

Which, I was very impressed with the aikido studio, the teacher, material & class was very nice that I watched. I just have little interest in learning a gentlemanly form of jujitsu where I am protecting my attacker from injury. I honestly could care less if my attacker gets injured, he should not of been attacking.

it was a nice cup of tea, just wasn't my cup of tea. Thats about all there is around here.

Jaqhama 05-27-2014 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hick (Post 6594660)
Nope, nothing of the sort. All I have found is this & an aikido studio

Which, I was very impressed with the aikido studio, the teacher, material & class was very nice that I watched. I just have little interest in learning a gentlemanly form of jujitsu where I am protecting my attacker from injury. I honestly could care less if my attacker gets injured, he should not of been attacking.

it was a nice cup of tea, just wasn't my cup of tea. That's about all there is around here.

The only thing I can think you might do is to post up on a few different MMA forums, like Sherdog and other MMA forums and maybe even Bullshido. net and ask if there are any guys training privately in your area that you might be able to join.

junglecrawler 05-27-2014 04:11 AM

The F.I.G.H.T. method is very effective for knife fighting. The bare hand stuff has all been done before, but the knife techniques are excellent.

Jaqhama 05-27-2014 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeekHer (Post 6594545)
At no time had Israeli or Palestinian Jewish military ever called themselves guerrillas or freedom fighters for that fact...They may have been labeled that by the British and Arabs but not by themselves.

I've had family in Israel since the late 1910s, early 1920s in Haganah, Palmach and Jewish Brigade and they have fought in every war that Israel was involved in (including the Arab Riots of the 1920s and later in the 1980s--Intifada) including myself during the Yom Kippur War.

Yeah. I was pretty sure they'd never been referred to as guerilla fighters.
Kind of casts a shadow of doubt over the whole organisation if they can't even get their logo right.

Hick 05-27-2014 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaqhama (Post 6595047)
Yeah. I was pretty sure they'd never been referred to as guerilla fighters.
Kind of casts a shadow of doubt over the whole organisation if they can't even get their logo right.

I think they just wanted a cool acronym for there stuff and they forced fitted it i mean FIGHT is a fun little acronym but...ehh, i dont know if its even something the Israelis practice or rather, they had to model it around the logo. just seems stupid but yeah FIFFHHT (fierce israeli freedom fighter hand-to-hand tactics) just doesn't have as nice of a ring to it.

Could probably ditch the Fierce part as well.

cuchillo negro 05-29-2014 01:28 AM

The guy that developed that system, Mike Kanarek, is a fake........he is a joke. Claimed to be a Israeli Special Forces but that was a lie. Ask guys that served in IDF Special Forces and they will tell you he is a joke among the Israeli martial art community. He was sued back in 2006. Don't waste your time with this crap. His martial arts background is just Tae Kwon Do not Krav Maga.

amaryllis 06-25-2014 04:19 PM

My first thought was that it could've been a kid's class. In the school I trained in (taekwon do), there were kid's classes separate from adult classes. I've also seen classes split Jr. Belt levels separate from Senior belt levels (lower belt levels like white, yellow, green vs. higher belt levels like blue, red, black).

Kid's aren't always known to have the best technique, but in the same breath I've seen some with amazing technique. Perhaps they could have used more attention.

Are their any other options in your community? If not, where's the next nearest community and would you be willing to commute? I know I would be willing to spend a few extra bucks on gas money to receive better training. It's not only your money you will be spending but also your time and money towards a prepping skill.

Perhaps it was an off day, I know I've been in classes where everyone is a little off.

WastelandWanderer 07-02-2014 03:14 PM

There's been a lot of controversy around the martial arts world, in general, regarding Haganah. My old instructor actually teaches it, but he also has 40+ years of karate and judo experience, plus he regularly attends Krav Maga seminars, so he can sort of "fix it up" in the areas it is lacking. His class was adults, only, and I trained with them every now and then--they were all tough, and the techniques were decent enough. Comparing what he taught as Haganah to videos I've seen of Krav Maga, I saw no discernible difference.

All that said, it's also possible to get "certified" to teach Haganah in a weekend so you can start selling it at your school, which may be what you ran into. I doubt it will get any better, so it's probably not worth your time. Some of the stuff I've seen out there from Haganah people is terrible.

texstephen 07-02-2014 03:20 PM

Knife fighting was always scary to me we used to practice with rubber knives and rub red chalk on the edge . At the end of the sparing secession both parties had red marks all over so gimme a gun.


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