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-   -   kubaton (https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=914440)

McGuire 03-26-2019 12:42 PM

kubaton
 
what are different pressure points or different items you can use as a kubaton

Snyper708 04-05-2019 06:37 PM

You can use anything that resembles a short stick, including a short stick.

PeterEnergy 04-05-2019 09:17 PM

Pressure points are neck, thigh, knee cap, groin, under arm.

dontbuypotteryfromme 04-05-2019 10:51 PM

39 Attachment(s)
You just hammer fist the guy in the head with the thing.

And so use pretty much anything that you can hold in your fist.

If I get in to a fight where I have to start using a weapon. I am not going to poke someone in a pressure point.

It is silly.

A fight isn't this slow step by step process where you have time to mess around.

PeterEnergy 04-06-2019 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme (Post 19453970)
You just hammer fist the guy in the head with the thing.

And so use pretty much anything that you can hold in your fist.

If I get in to a fight where I have to start using a weapon. I am not going to poke someone in a pressure point.

It is silly.

A fight isn't this slow step by step process where you have time to mess around.

So says the untrained

The pressure point is meant to be a first strike in the attack, which is hopefully disabling. I once saw a guy go up to another who was mouthing off. He extended his fingers and truck the guy in the throat. End of conflict.

Most were expecting this guy to puff out his chest, say words eye to eye. He didn't do any of that. He casually walked up to the guy, lulling him into a false sense of security that physical conflict was not imminent, but words would be exchanged.

The pressure point attack did all the talking. Impressive display of martial art against an amateur antagonist.

hatchet jack 04-06-2019 01:07 PM

Learn a few tricks and no extra tools needed. A backfist works every time.


A_SonofLiberty 04-06-2019 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatchet jack (Post 19454698)
Learn a few tricks and no extra tools needed. A backfist works every time.

Pimp VS Karate Expert - YouTube

Not every time. Do not back fist someone in the mouth. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Snyper708 04-08-2019 06:24 PM

My Cold Steel Voyager Tanto serves very well as a "kubaton" with the blade closed.
https://media.midwayusa.com/producti...111/111167.jpg

dontbuypotteryfromme 04-08-2019 07:07 PM

39 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterEnergy (Post 19454384)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme (Post 19453970)
You just hammer fist the guy in the head with the thing.

And so use pretty much anything that you can hold in your fist.

If I get in to a fight where I have to start using a weapon. I am not going to poke someone in a pressure point.

It is silly.

A fight isn't this slow step by step process where you have time to mess around.

So says the untrained

The pressure point is meant to be a first strike in the attack, which is hopefully disabling. I once saw a guy go up to another who was mouthing off. He extended his fingers and truck the guy in the throat. End of conflict.

Most were expecting this guy to puff out his chest, say words eye to eye. He didn't do any of that. He casually walked up to the guy, lulling him into a false sense of security that physical conflict was not imminent, but words would be exchanged.

The pressure point attack did all the talking. Impressive display of martial art against an amateur antagonist.

About a week in to my bouncing career the guy next to me busted a dude in the face with a motarola radio. Just about killed him.

In the last 20 years I have hit people and been hit with pretty much everything. And pressure points basically wind you up in a situation where you are fighting for the weapon that you cleverly tried to poke the guy with.

Because it hurts and then he turns around and grabs it.

And the training (which I have done) is mostly stupid. Looks good in demos. Doesn't factor the realities of a real fight.

dontbuypotteryfromme 04-08-2019 07:16 PM

https://youtu.be/vWkGO2ONCHI

McGuire 04-09-2019 12:27 PM

a good fighter should be able to tell the difference between having to kill disable and just send a point, for example, the V of the collarbone is where the trachea is easiest to access and considering that most street fights end up on the ground and if you are trained at all in grappling than you should be able to get on top and gain the advantage if it was a life or death the pressure point I explained above would crush a person's trachea so in short pressure points are effective in a real fight

PeterEnergy 04-09-2019 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGuire (Post 19460278)
a good fighter should be able to tell the difference between having to kill disable and just send a point, for example, the V of the collarbone is where the trachea is easiest to access and considering that most street fights end up on the ground and if you are trained at all in grappling than you should be able to get on top and gain the advantage if it was a life or death the pressure point I explained above would crush a person's trachea so in short pressure points are effective in a real fight

You got it! Another thing is that a weapon, even a kubaton or tactical pen, is better than no weapon. The video that dontbuypotteryfromme is a variant of the 'guns don't make a difference' argument. Sure, a scenario could develop where it doesn't matter.

Thing is, survivalists do no prep for when their preps DON'T matter. :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme (Post 19459034)
And pressure points basically wind you up in a situation where you are fighting for the weapon that you cleverly tried to poke the guy with.

See above.

I recall watching an episode of Blue Bloods where Tom Selleck, as PC (Police Commisioner) was told he has an army of 35,000 to help him with his son's problem. Selleck replied, "And I cannot use any of them." We do not have a police force for when they do not matter.


hatchet jack 04-09-2019 08:04 PM

I had a "Thing" I found in my walmart bag when I got home and was unloading my groceries. The Thing was a piece of hexagon steel about 5-6" long with a taper on one end and two smaller prongs fitted into the side of the steel. I thought it was something that held the plastic WM bags on the dispenser. This was around 20 years ago before WM changed the bag system. I even took it back to WM to try and return it. They said it wasn't theirs.

I found you could hold it in your hand with the point down and it would make a good striking tool. And you inserted your fingers through the two post and it was sort of a brass knuckle sort of thing. I carried it in my truck all that time to use as a weapon. My youngest talked me out of it a year ago and took it home with him.

I finally did see them for sale at the gunshow about 10 years ago so I guess it was built as a weapon. But I have no idea what it was called. But it would have made a good Kubaton.

McGuire 04-10-2019 08:50 AM

that is cool

hatchet jack 04-10-2019 04:06 PM

Here you go. I found them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...g=otakukami-20

https://bugoutexpert.com/product/bla...aton-key-ring/

I guess they fall in the Kubaton catagory.

deprogramming services 04-27-2019 01:04 PM

https://www.survivalistboards.com/pi...ictureid=27210
This is me (in my youth) breaking a piece of cement with a yawara stick I made. I hung the cement from a rope instead of setting it on a couple of blocks as is usually done so it took a more focused strike to break it; I thought that seemed more self-defense oriented. This shows the potential power of a good yawara stick in the hand of someone who knows how to use it. No zombie skull will withstand a blow from this weapon in my hand.

The one I used in the picture I made from a chisel, about 5/8" diameter and long enough to stick out of either end of the fist just a little bit, with a long strip of rubber cut from a bicycle inner tube wrapped around it to improve grip. I even used the same rubber strip to allow the yawara to be tied off to the hand, which can be useful. As counterintuitive as it might seem, the better end for smashing is the blunt end; the chisel end localizes the force of the blow too much and so digs into the cement instead of breaking it. The chisel end though (more specifically the two corners of it) seems to work very well on pressure points, and in fact you can push it into a person about anywhere and it hurts like hell. It should also be a powerful ripper.

And if you happen to have a hammer too, a chisel can get you into places and things that are locked, which could be useful in a survival situation.

I think the chisel is among the best weapons in this class. Steel proved its superiority over wood as weapon material a long time ago, and this is a good form for the steel to take. The rubber grip is a huge improvement, but is not essential.

Before making this one I made a few out of 1/2" steel bolts, with rubber grips. They didn't work as well, most likely because they didn't weigh quite as much (being 1/2" instead of 5/8"), and that little bit of extra weight seems to have put the chisel on the other side of a threshold, making it a much better cement smasher. But the bolt isn't bad; the chisel is just better. A 5/8" inch bolt would probably be as good a smasher as the chisel (though not as good for gouging). And the smaller bolt can be improved with nuts and washers.

I also tried things like the railroad spikes you find along railroad tracks, with and without an improved grip. The big end is obviously the smasher end. These are more than adequate. A big center punch works well too, and the point is ideal for pressure points. Go into a hardware store or look in any place where there are tools and you will probably find some good ones.

Anything that increases the weight of the hand increases the power of any blow struck with the hand, up to the point that the weight is great enough to slow the hand, and if the weight also adds hardness, as in the blunt end of a chisel sticking out a 1/2" or so from the hammerfist side of the hand, effectiveness is increased a great deal more. A shape that allows a good grip makes it better, and some kind of softness between the hand and the weapon, as in rubber wrapping, is another improvement.

This is all you need to know to figure out how to make good yawara sticks, and to see that excellent weapons of this type can be found all over the place. One of the most powerful is obviously a one pound steel hand weight like you buy at Walmart. Ceramic coffee mugs and unopened beer cans are obvious. I remember a good ol' boy brawler I used to know carried a roll of quarters taped up to add power to his fist.

In his classic book Get Tough, Major W. E. Fairbairn suggests crushing a small box of matches (commonly carried in his day) in your fist to add power to a blow struck with the fist. I doubt a match box would add enough weight (or hardness) to a hand to add much power (and in a self defense situation there might be better things to do with matches). But the point seems to be that anything that adds weight adds at least some power, and that increase in power might make the difference, just as I found the difference between a 1/2" bolt and a 5/8" chisel made a big difference.

I've studied a few martial arts but all of them were primarily striking and not grappling arts, so this is my way of looking at this subject. Any style that involves blows struck with the fist will be made more effective by adding weight and hardness to the fist. But for those who study other methods, most of the suggestions I made here should fit their style too.

CeltKnight 04-29-2019 05:13 PM

People misunderstand the use of "pressure points" thinking one's only option is to press something firmly into them. Pressure points are also great striking points. Press for pain, strike to cause weakness, stunning, or disability. No, they don't always work, but they are among the best non-lethal places to strike in order to bring about a rapid incapacitation. Fights are fast, fluid and dynamic encounters and it's best to get the first strike in AND to strike where you have the best chances to bring the fight to a conclusion that is in your best interest. The image of someone standing calmly poking someone with a stick is a total misunderstanding of what proper techniques look like. You can use pressure to help you effect balance destabilization for a throw or sweep. You can use pressure to set up a joint lock (or enhance a joint lock by providing more leverage using something harder and less bendy than a finger). Strikes generally work for that too, and have the advantage of providing more shock to the nerves, effector tissue, and such.

I've used yawara (a kubaton most of the time, small flashlights, sturdy pens, etc.) many times and to good effect for both touch pressure and striking. I've also used empty hand strikes, too. I'd a lot rather have a few pre-selected mostly effective targets to chose from than just wail about aimlessly on someone. It takes next to no training to know how to cripple or kill with a small weapon (though training helps you be able to actually DO it). And, if it's time to kill or cripple, then it's time to do just that. But most fights don't require lethal force to end. If you have used your skills with pressure points (or whatever you call them) and the fight isn't over, you have a much better excuse to explain to a jury later as to why you upped your level of force.

hatchet jack 04-29-2019 08:43 PM

Celtic and deprogram what do you guys think of Slungshots? I got real enthused about them after I read an article in the Backwoodsman magazine about them and how simple they are to make. Just a small padlock attached to a short length of para cord makes a decent one. Or a roll of quarters in a sock. Or a bar of soap. A favorite of Al Capones men.

And I know they hurt like hell. I was swinging one in my garage and managed to wrap it around my hand and hit myself in the back of the head. That was the end of the indoor practice sessions.:xeye:

Eddie_T 04-30-2019 11:21 AM

I am thinking of turning a yawara stick on the lathe using locust or dogwood. It could be drilled and loaded with poured lead or shot to add weight.

deprogramming services 05-03-2019 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatchet jack (Post 19496238)
Celtic and deprogram what do you guys think of Slungshots? I got real enthused about them after I read an article in the Backwoodsman magazine about them and how simple they are to make. Just a small padlock attached to a short length of para cord makes a decent one. Or a roll of quarters in a sock. Or a bar of soap. A favorite of Al Capones men.

And I know they hurt like hell. I was swinging one in my garage and managed to wrap it around my hand and hit myself in the back of the head. That was the end of the indoor practice sessions.:xeye:

I have never seen or heard the term slungshot. What you describe is more traditionally called a flail. I call it a soft-handled hammer. And there is no doubt it makes a good improvised weapon. All you need is something hard and heavy for the head and something flexible for the handle, and a way to attach them together.

I remember a good ol' boy who did a lot of brawling and had a reputation for coming out on top carried in his car a section of welding lead about a foot and a half long with a heavy connector on one end and nothing on the other, which he claimed to have used to good effect as a flail on multiple occasions. The welding lead is made out of heavy copper wire and the connector is a big hunk of solid brass; both are covered with rubber. I'd say it would make an adequate flail. Since he was a welder, he could carry it in his car without it looking like a weapon.

The point to this though is not so much that a short section of welding lead with a connector makes a good flail as it is that an improvised weapon can be found or made that fits your situation in some way.

As with all weapons, skill with that form will improve your effectiveness with it. I like to come up with some generic version of each type of improvised weapon and train with it, so that I have trained with anything I might pick up and use. Each type has its own characteristics, so it's good to study each type.

I would not recommend counting on pain to stop an aggressor. It might work, but it might not. To be certain of stopping an aggressor, you need to be able to break something, or cause a concussion or something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie_T (Post 19497332)
I am thinking of turning a yawara stick on the lathe using locust or dogwood. It could be drilled and loaded with poured lead or shot to add weight.

I tried that years ago, but decided that it might make more sense to put a big steel screw into the hole I drilled instead of lead, because even though the steel weighs less than lead, it weighs enough, and it's harder than lead. Experience though did later show that a little difference in weight can make a big difference in power. But that same thing probably applies to hardness too.

But after making a few wood and steel yawara sticks I decided why even waste time with wood in the first place, since steel proved its superiority over wood on the battlefield a long time ago. So instead I made steel yawara sticks like I described in another post above. Nothing made with lead and wood can come close to their efficiency: lead is heavier than steel but steel is heavier than wood, so all steel probably weighs about the same as a combination of lead and wood. And they are much easier to make. And as nice as a wood handle might be, wrapped rubber is better. Or leather if you prefer that, though leather will not stick to your hand like rubber does.

A wood yawara stick turned on a lathe by a skilled craftsman with some artistic talent could look really cool though. Mine just look pure businesslike, but yours could be artistic. On a table at a gun show yours might sell really well and mine probably wouldn't. And when it comes to their use as a weapon, one is probably about as good as another, since the difference between one and another is small compared to all the other things that determine the outcome of a fight.

But if you want the most efficient form for this weapon to take, use steel, with a rubber grip.


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