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-   -   Canes and Walking sticks for protection? No. (https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=171686)

Black Knight 05-26-2011 05:09 PM

Canes and Walking sticks for protection? No.
 
I'm also sure historically there exists cases of people defending themselves with a cane. I wonder how many of these were conducted by people who were good fighters without this aid. Also I suspect there are countless failed attempts of people trying to defend themselves with a pathetic weapon like this and got it taken away and the attacker got revenge.

The only real application a weapon like this would have is for ambushing purposes. For instance your friend is getting beat and you walk up behind the attacker and make repeated accurate shots with the knob end of a cane. I doubt a medium sized stick would even be great for this purpose.

Possibly they could be used as a stand off weapon, if the attacker was afraid of it. Defense never leads to winning.

Certainly the could be used to lock up somebody that really isn't interested in fighting(which is often how law enforcement employs it). Not for self defense.

I have seen a lot of officers try and employ their sicks for striking, most of these sticks are designed with weighted ends, with pathetic results. Most officers will not employ their sticks because they rarely gain compliance. Granted the Police shorter baton with weighted ends would be a lot more effective when striking lethal targets(head, neck and spine) than longer walking sticks and canes, but I'm referring to walking sticks and canes in this thread.

OK, let me have it I know there are a lot of people here who will disagree.

Tenfeathers 05-26-2011 05:15 PM

I carry a cane that has a heavy brass pomel , it will crack a skull if hit with it I promise.

Wetwork 05-26-2011 05:17 PM

Shillelagh..?-WW

The Saint 05-26-2011 05:29 PM

YES. a hickory cane is both a formidable weapon if used correctly and requires no license to carry, even when you fly.

Just leave out the brass balls and swords, guns, hidden pepper sprays...you know... stuff that would induce a TSA agent to check you for colon cancer.




Tenfeathers 05-26-2011 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saint (Post 2812146)
YES. a hickory cane is both a formidable weapon if used correctly and requires no license to carry, even when you fly.

Just leave out the brass balls and swords, guns, hidden pepper sprays...you know... stuff that would induce a TSA agent to check you for colon cancer.

I'm allowed to carry my cane onboard with the brass pomel.

The Saint 05-26-2011 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenfeathers (Post 2812201)
I'm allowed to carry my cane onboard with the brass pomel.

Oh very nice I never wanted to put that to the test. :thumb:




Cool Hand 05-26-2011 06:59 PM

Anyone who thinks a cane isn't a deadly weapon never met my Grandfather.

vicdotcom 05-26-2011 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Knight (Post 2812078)
I'm also sure historically there exists cases of people defending themselves with a cane. I wonder how many of these were conducted by people who were good fighters without this aid. Also I suspect there are countless failed attempts of people trying to defend themselves with a pathetic weapon like this and got it taken away and the attacker got revenge.

The only real application a weapon like this would have is for ambushing purposes. For instance your friend is getting beat and you walk up behind the attacker and make repeated accurate shots with the knob end of a cane. I doubt a medium sized stick would even be great for this purpose.

Possibly they could be used as a stand off weapon, if the attacker was afraid of it. Defense never leads to winning.

Certainly the could be used to lock up somebody that really isn't interested in fighting(which is often how law enforcement employs it). Not for self defense.

I have seen a lot of officers try and employ their sicks for striking, most of these sticks are designed with weighted ends, with pathetic results. Most officers will not employ their sticks because they rarely gain compliance. Granted the Police shorter baton with weighted ends would be a lot more effective when striking lethal targets(head, neck and spine) than longer walking sticks and canes, but I'm referring to walking sticks and canes in this thread.

OK, let me have it I know there are a lot of people here who will disagree.

I agree with the red, disagree on almost everything else.

First what I agree with... Yes I imagine that there are plenty of people who tried to use their cane/walking stick as a defense measure or weapon and failed miserably. I personally have been attacked with more than a few baseball bats and those knuckleheads never landed one hard blow. In fact, they were pretty much disarmed at will. So you NEED to learn to use the stick otherwise it is just stick. Or like you said, a windmill of wood to keep distance.

Now the stick can be a formidable weapon. In fact besides a handgun, I would take stick over knife 100% of the time. But the problem (as with bats) is that people tend to use the wrong end of the stick IMO. Instead of using the heavy end to attack first, they should be using the thinner tip-end. At least in the beginning. Thrusts to the face with your body mass behind it will put out over 150lbs of force into 1-2 square inch area. Stick traveling at 70+ mph will break many bones. Use these aspects of the stick first to immobilize or temporarily distract. Then use the heavy end as a bludgeon.

Though as you said, and I agree, that for at least 85% of the population... a cane would be insufficient. The most important advantage of a stick is distance and leverage. Many people often forget about or ignore the leverage.


http://woodcreationsbysam.com/images/207_cane_tip_3.jpg

talon115 05-26-2011 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand (Post 2812455)
Anyone who thinks a cane isn't a deadly weapon never met my Grandfather.

Anyone who thinks my Grandfather wasn't a weapon never met his cane!:D:

FarmerJohn 05-26-2011 07:50 PM

lol there is much to be said for the humble quarterstaff

I walk with one for its as much a walking aid as a weapon and it even has a pointy tip

Black Knight 05-26-2011 07:51 PM

I appreciate the well thought out reply. The point of this thread is to one, express my opinion. Two, to make people think about what they are carrying, and it's limitations. I mainly don't want people to be overconfident with something that is limited in its application.

Granted an experienced martial artist/fighter could be a real pain to deal with if he had a cane. However I think an trained fighter has little to no advantage. In fact I would do a force on force fight with an untrained fighter holding a cane any day. I might take minor abuse(maybe) but that is fighting. I SURE WOULDN'T MAKE THAT OFFER TO AN UNTRAINED MAN WITH A KNIFE! So I have to disagree on the knife being the lessor weapon.

No doubt the ball end would crush a face but it would be so stupid easy to not get hit in the face that it negates the point.

I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T BE USED AS A WEAPON EFFECTIVELY(a pen can be used effectively as a weapon if administered correctly), I'M JUST SAYING IT IS NOT A VERY EFFECTIVE WEAPON TO USE.

Black Knight 05-26-2011 07:53 PM

If I NEEDED a cane, I would carry it and train with it. But my main goal would be to make sure they ended up with it so I had to defend myself. Then draw and fire.

vicdotcom 05-26-2011 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Knight (Post 2812662)
I appreciate the well thought out reply. The point of this thread is to one, express my opinion. Two, to make people think about what they are carrying, and it's limitations. I mainly don't want people to be overconfident with something that is limited in its application.

Granted an experienced martial artist/fighter could be a real pain to deal with if he had a cane. However I think an trained fighter has little to no advantage. In fact I would do a force on force fight with an untrained fighter holding a cane any day. I might take minor abuse(maybe) but that is fighting. I SURE WOULDN'T MAKE THAT OFFER TO AN UNTRAINED MAN WITH A KNIFE! So I have to disagree on the knife being the lessor weapon.

No doubt the ball end would crush a face but it would be so stupid easy to not get hit in the face that it negates the point.

I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T BE USED AS A WEAPON EFFECTIVELY(a pen can be used effectively as a weapon if administered correctly), I'M JUST SAYING IT IS NOT A VERY EFFECTIVE WEAPON TO USE.

Now this I completely agree with 100%. Even the part about a knife not being a lesser weapon. I never claimed that it was really... just that I would PERSONALLY choose the stick over knife.

One thing also about a knife and cane... (just like you said) a 75 year old man with a cane is not intimidating. A 75 year old man with a knife will give someone second thoughts. Even if that person did not know how to use a knife effectively, the perception alone may help a person out in a self-defense situation. Like many people walking about, our society does not view a cane as much of a weapon. Now a 75 year old man with a .45 will probably have the last laugh :D: But as with the knife, the show of force will sometimes act as a deterrent. A cane does not "show force" until it is crowning someone or shoved up and into their face.

papajoscochise 05-26-2011 08:21 PM

This brings to mind the movie 'Quigley Down Under" where Tom Selleck (Quigley) takes out a whole crew with a hickory axe handle. Sure it's just a movie but he really messes up some blokes with just a stick.

LadyFenix 05-26-2011 08:27 PM

Awwww......you mean my wooden walking cane won't make me more powerful than a speeding locomotive????

Gee.......you really know how to ruin a person's day. LOL

Old Grump 05-26-2011 08:29 PM

I'm closer to 70 than I am 60 and on good days I use a cane to keep my face off the ground. On bad days I use crutches, (back injury from work in 1988). 2 years ago I was faced with two punks, one armed with a cheap hunting knife. I was on the way to the swimming pool to pic up my nephew and certainly didn't expect trouble in a residential area of a small town and in front of a grade school. I replied with a quick overhand bop to the head of the knife man and another bop only this time he caught it on his forearm and lost his knife. The third strike I stopped because his little buddy was halfway down the block and wise guy who wanted my wallet had turned away from me and was trying to catch his buddy. I looked briefly at the knife with its cheap black plastic handle and dropped it into the storm drain. If these had been serious criminals with some experience in mugging I could have been in deep doo doo but quick reaction and no talking on my part sent the little darlings on their way.

That is the problem most people have. They want to fire a warning shot into the air or ground or get in an en garde position to intimidate the boogerman and try to reason with him. They are not there to fight fair or to parley, they are there to hurt you and take your things. Even a light weight cane like the one I was using that day was effective because it ruined their plans, I didn't play nice and bullies do not like getting hit.

There are numerous accounts of old people in their 70's and 80's reacting quickly and taking the attack to a surprised boogerman and sending them packing. It is attitude not what you are armed with or how many hours you have in the Do Jo or Gym that you have. They want meek and compliant, they think that is a reasonable response. People who grab their weapons from then or hit them with a can of peas or purse or cane while saying impolite things in a loud tone of voice is considered unreasonable by the boogermen. To bad for the boogermen. If you don't want to be a victim refuse to play their game. They can't make you a victim unless you cooperate with them.

Fasha 05-26-2011 08:30 PM

Walking Cane Sword:

http://budk.com/Swords/Sword-Canes?s...FdI42godUj5apw

Black Knight 05-26-2011 08:40 PM

Now an axe handle is totally different, it is a much more effective striking weapon.

Cane sword. :thumb:

Old grump, I'm glad you and the boy are OK. Congrats.

FarmerJohn 05-26-2011 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajoscochise (Post 2812761)
This brings to mind the movie 'Quigley Down Under" where Tom Selleck (Quigley) takes out a whole crew with a hickory axe handle. Sure it's just a movie but he really messes up some blokes with just a stick.

i think here in the south thats called a n***** knocker

talon115 05-26-2011 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papajoscochise (Post 2812761)
This brings to mind the movie 'Quigley Down Under" where Tom Selleck (Quigley) takes out a whole crew with a hickory axe handle. Sure it's just a movie but he really messes up some blokes with just a stick.

An axe handle will ruin someones day right quick!


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