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RottieMom 02-03-2018 04:01 AM

Things I Love(d) About My State
Bring it on.

I'm a Vermonter, through and through. 13th generation New Englander, 7th generation Vermonter.

You can take the gal outta Ve-mont, but ya can' take the Ve-mont outta the gal.

(That's a joke, people. None of us can pronounce "Rs" or "Ts". It took me $2500 of speech therapy in the 1980s to get rid of my accent and I regret every penny of it.)

But here's a short list of what I love (Besides the mountains... when I go home, my mountains encompass me.. they make me feel good. Places like Buffalo --completely flat--drive me to tears with a few hours. How do people LIVE in flat places? I'll never understand that...)


Need a gun permit? Nope.

Need a permit for concealed carrying? Nope.

Balanced budget? Yup. Always. It's in the state Constitution.

Walk around on unposted land? Yup. It's up to the owner to post it. (Folks take it VERY seriously! ) But Lord help ya if you walk around on POSTED land. The whole town will show up with pitch forks and tiki torches at your door. Don't go gettin' the local folks all tied up in their britches. It won't go well for you.

A felony (say for a still) will impede having a gun? Nope.

Good Samaratin Laws (not just protecting you). Yup, and oddly, IT'S AN IMPERATIVE. Every Vermonter has a duty to assist a stranded or hurt person (probably because the weather and isolation makes it too easy to die in a minor accident). <<-- and the idea that you may stumble upon a dangerous person and help them? Well, go back to the whole "everyone is armed" thing.

More trees than people? Yup.

Full of natural resources? Yup

Cheap land? Eh, it depends. Some areas of the state are more economically depressed than others, so thus the land is cheaper.

Legal Attitude: "Do whatever floats your boat, as long as you're not hurting anyone else" attitude? Ohhhhhh Yeah. Almost EVERYTHING is legal. (except jacking deer)

Beauty? Yup. Even billboards are outlawed. "Mamma didn't raise no fool." That crap on the highway is an eye soar.

Politics: A very (ahem) rebellious attitude (especially with federal govt)? Oh yeah. 1700s: Vermonters elected Mathew Lyons while he sat in jail for heresey; 1941: Vermont declared war on Germany a few months ahead of the US.; 1983: Vermont was forced to raise the drinking age to 21. One of the lasts states to do so on 12/2/83 (I remember that day--I'd already turned 18, so I could still drink!) 2005s: Entire state votes to "end the war and bring the boys home"-- because nearly everyone in the state joins the Green Mountain Boys (the National Guard) and at that time most of the dead in Iraq were disproportionatly from Vt. 200 out of the 251 towns sent men and women to serve. Two years in, Vermont had the highest per capita death toll of any state.

Having lived all over the US, judged by the criteria or "liberty and survival" I'd chose Vermont.

Is it "liberal"? --well, if you define that as wanting the government OUT of your business... then I suppose yeah. It's really liberal.

Note: I had to explain this to El Esposo, because he was dumbfounded. "Your state has that LAX gun laws? And no one has shoot-em ups?"

I can't really explain the concept of "neighborliness" combined with "politeness" to people who haven't experienced this in a place where (because of the remoteness) that's how life is.. but you get a darned skippy polite with people that you know may end up saving your butt... a washed out road, a huge snow storm... what ever. You might be relying on that person to save your life next year.

The world gets a whole lot more open when you have to rely on your neighbors.

Woodswalker 02-03-2018 06:24 AM

New England is a great place . Beautiful scenery , mountains , lakes , streams , the woodlands and (except for VT. and most of NH) the ocean .

The reason that I'd like to move out of my state (MA) is the politics - high taxes , restrictive laws and the totally corrupt politicians .
I've been looking at VT as a place to relocate .

I don't understand how the good people of VT elected that crazy old communist Bernie Sanders though . If I moved to VT I'd be worried that I'd be moving from one communist state to another .
If Bernie could be elected other communists could be elected too . It's very possible all that freedom in VT could end very soon .

Jack Swilling 02-03-2018 08:27 AM

"Regarded as one of the most progressive states in the country, Hillary Clinton easily won Vermont with 56.7% of the vote, although her margin was reduced by 8.34 percentage points from President Obama in 2012.[1] Donald Trump received 29.8% of the vote and won only Essex County–the most rural and sparsely populated county in the state. He was the first Republican presidential candidate to win a county in Vermont since George W. Bush in 2004."

"Tax Happy Vermont Becoming A State Where Only The Rich Can Afford To Live"
High taxes, heavy regulations and other policies that depress economic growth have made Bernie Sanders’ home state of Vermont a difficult place to create jobs, earn a living and raise a family. Underscoring this is the fact that Vermont saw a net outmigration of more than 5,000 residents over the last decade
. Now Gov. Peter Shumlin (D) and state lawmakers are looking to double down on their anti-growth policies with the state house’s approval last week of another round of tax hikes of individuals, families and employers in the Green Mountain State.

The Vermont House of Representatives recently approved $48 million in higher taxes and fees. Levies were raised on home heating oil, mutual funds, banks, drivers, and the Employer Health Assessment Tax on businesses who don't provide health insurance for employees was hiked.

The $48 million tax hike package, if approved by the Democrat-controlled state senate and signed into law by Gov. Peter Shumlin (D), would come on top of the $30 million in higher state taxes signed into law by Gov. Shumlin last year, and the more than 20 federal tax increases signed into law by President Obama over the last seven years. Forty-five states have a better business tax climate than Vermont, and the $48 million tax increase passed by the Vermont House last week will only make the state business tax climate less hospitable and put Vermont at a greater competitive disadvantage.

Raising taxes in order to avoid necessary government reforms and spending restraint is nothing new to Vermont. Bruce Lisman, Republican candidate for Vermont governor, recently penned a column highlighting how during the last five years “Governor Shumlin has overseen an increase in taxes, fees, and surcharges of more than $640 million, a staggering 23 percent increase for a state of Vermont’s size and declining population.”

The Employer Assessment (a tax on employers who do not provide health care insurance for employees) increase, which accounts for just under $6 million of the $48 million hike package, was one of the more contentious provisions approved by the Vermont House, and understandably so, as a recent Supreme Court ruling calls into question the constitutionality this tax. Some argue the federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) pre-empts Vermont's employer assessment tax and similar levies in others states.
Brock, Turner and Lisman’s assertion that Vermont has an overspending problem and not a revenue problem is backed up by the numbers. In fact, had Vermont kept state spending in line with the rate of population growth and inflation during the last decade, the state would’ve spent $6 billion less than it did. That’s $6 billion that could have been put in a rainy day fund, returned to taxpayers through tax relief, or both.

The $48 million in higher taxes approved by the state house last week aren’t the only rate increases still pending in the Green Mountain State. Vermont lawmakers are also considering standalone legislation that would impose a massive tax increase on electronic cigarettes and vaping devices. Taking products that are saving lives by helping people quit smoking and making them more expensive with discriminatory excise taxes is both terrible tax and health policy.

“The bill, which was introduced by Representative George Till (D), would lump e-cigarettes, as well as vape pens, mods, e-liquids, and even nicotine-free e-juice, under the state’s tobacco tax laws,” reports Motherboard’s Kayleigh Rogers. "Vermont’s 92 percent tobacco tax rate puts it at one of the highest in the US. Minnesota currently has the highest e-cigarette tax rate at 95 percent, but that does not apply to nicotine-free juice or empty vape pens and mods; if Vermont passes this bill, the state would arguably be home to the most severe vape tax in the country.”

While Vermont lawmakers are getting ready to increase their state’s tax burden, many other states are moving in the opposite direction. In North Carolina, for example, Republican Gov. Pat McCrory and Republicans who control the state legislature have put the Tar Heel State in a much better position than Vermont (and other high tax states like Illinois, California and Connecticut) to compete for new business, investment and residents by significantly reducing and flattening personal and corporate income tax rates. North Carolina lawmakers have been able to accomplish this by doing something that Vermont lawmakers refuse to do: exercise spending restraint. Ensuring the size of government grows at a sustainable clip has allowed North Carolina lawmakers to provide tax relief while also increasing teacher pay and achieving budget surpluses.

Other states like North Carolina that have experienced some of the strongest economic growth in the country are also moving in the opposite direction from Vermont when it comes to fiscal policy. Take Texas, a state that already has a much more attractive business-tax climate than Vermont. Lone Star State lawmakers increased Texas' advantage over Vermont and other high tax states by enacting $4 billion in further tax relief for employers and property owners last year. Republican Florida Gov. Rick Scott, who has provided his constituents with more than $2.6 billion in tax relief since taking office, is poised to enact an additional $1 billion in tax relief this year. Tennessee, which does not tax wage income, is already a much more attractive place than Vermont to do business. Yet Volunteer State lawmakers are getting ready to increase their advantage over Vermont and other high tax states in the coming weeks by passing legislation to repeal the state’s 6.0% tax on investment income, making Tennessee a true no income tax state.

Some states that are progressive strongholds like Vermont are being forced to admit Vermont’s high tax, high spending model is a loser. In 2014, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, signed into law tax reform that, according to the non-partisan Tax Foundation, “reduced unnecessary complexity in the corporate tax base and lowered the corporate income tax rate to the lowest level since 1968.” Gov. Cuomo has admitted the Empire has “no long-term future if you are the tax capital of the nation.” Vermont lawmakers would be wise to heed Cuomo’s advice, which is just as applicable to Vermont as it is to New York.

Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Tennessee and other economically successful states are passing regulatory reforms, reducing tax rates, giving workers the freedom to decide whether to join a union, and offering parents more options for providing a better education for their children. Compared with where Shumlin and Democrat legislators are taking Vermont, these successful states are moving in the opposite direction.

Vermont has already demonstrated that single-payer would require economy-crippling tax increases. Now Gov. Shumlin and Democrats who control the state legislature seem dead set on showing the country why raising taxes to avoid necessary reforms is not a recipe for economic success. As American for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist has famously said about the likes of Vermont, California, Connecticut, and Illinois -- no state is a total failure, some just serve as bad examples.

"Mount Mansfield. Mount Mansfield is the highest mountain in Vermont with a summit that peaks at 4,395 feet"

"According to average temperatures across the state, Vermont was ranked the 7th coldest state in the country. Of course, it's not just the frigid winters that decide a state's ranking."

I guess we all have opinions. I lived on a small mountian out west at 4,500' elevation. To get the vapors over such tiny mountians in Vermont is a joke to me. To live in a socialistist state is a joke to me. To live in the 7th coldest state is a joke to me. People are leaving, the state population is decreasing, which says most everything you need to know. Vermont blows. Count me as never wanting to live in Vermont. BTW, gun control is comming to your paradise. Glad you enjoy it there.

RottieMom 02-09-2018 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by Woodswalker (Post 17540249)
. . . .I don't understand how the good people of VT elected that crazy old communist Bernie Sanders though . If I moved to VT I'd be worried that I'd be moving from one communist state to another .
If Bernie could be elected other communists could be elected too . It's very possible all that freedom in VT could end very soon .

Vermonters have been electing Bernie since 1981, when he first ran for mayor of Burlington. I was too young to vote (and didn't live in Burlington) but the man who would become my late husband did vote for Bernie in that election and the subsequent one. My late husband, God rest his filandering soul, was a Vermont Republican.

Bernie isn't a Communist. He's a democratic socialist-- think along the ideology of Norway but with a lot of capitalism thrown in. Over the last 37 years the good folks of Vermont keep electing him for every office he runs for, because he's done great things for the place. Burlington was a down-and-out rust-belt college town, but was revitalised well, after Bernie became mayor.

The current government is: Republican Governor (Phil Scott-- he's been in Vt politics a long time. Good man. As I recall he was a stock car racer, too), with Progressive Party Lt. Governor (Dave Zuckerman, a long-haired environmentalist) and Democratic Socialist Senator (Bernie-crazy-haired Jewish guy originally from NYC, but a long-time Vermonter), with smatterings of other parties (Green, Labor, etc.) everywhere. I know of no Communists. Of course, there might be one as mayor of a small town or something. Hard tellin' not knowin.'

Oh, and btw, that Republican Governor just made recreational marijuana use COMPLETELY LEGAL. Retail sales start in July. And you can bet your bottom dollar there'll be some taxes in there! (Hey, Vermonters will just grow their own, and the tourists will buy retail and pay the taxes so.... I don't think many people will stress over it....)

Few voters pay attention to labels. They're more focused on issues, and how well the elected officials will reflect the needs and desires of the folk in the state.... People vote across party lines on a regular basis.

And EVERY single one of those politicians--I don't care what party they're in-- are pro-gun.

RottieMom 02-09-2018 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by Jack Swilling (Post 17540785)
I guess we all have opinions. I lived on a small mountian out west at 4,500' elevation. To get the vapors over such tiny mountians in Vermont is a joke to me. To live in a socialistist state is a joke to me. To live in the 7th coldest state is a joke to me. People are leaving, the state population is decreasing, which says most everything you need to know. Vermont blows. Count me as never wanting to live in Vermont. BTW, gun control is comming to your paradise. Glad you enjoy it there.


Your ability to cut 'n paste what will be a two-year old article, come April, is... quite impressive.

Some how the large amounts of tourism (which, besides Dairy farming is a big piece of the economic pie) tells me that there are folks out there who like the place (besides the residents). But, as a male friend of mine used to say, holding aloft a beer in his hand, as we'd watch the tourists drive home... "Happy Trails... Just leave your daughters and your credit card numbers. That's all we can ask."

And the whole "Gun control is coming" thing... Jezum Crow. That statement's a few pickles short of a full barrel. It's a state that's a lot of things (often good things, when you look past "labels") but every single politician there is pro-gun. The only way "gun control" could happen would be some sort of federal thing-- and yes, there are restrictions--namely, out-of-staters can't buy guns and just dash across state lines back home... but "gun control is coming"?


RottieMom 02-09-2018 04:14 PM

I stand corrected on one thing.... Felons can no longer have hand guns.... because of a FEDERAL LAW (Vermonters must be very angry!) We can thank the current administration in Washington for this-- that is what "federal" means.

A new state law prohibits violent criminals from having guns (and I believe that includes people who have been deemed "mentally insane").

Hm. Well, if someone hears "command voices"... Or they've been convicted of a violent crime? I can see how folks would want to keep the peace. You can't rely on people to be sane or good.

Here's a very recent link (8 days old at the time of this writing) and a cut n paste of relevant text.

"Who can own a gun?

Vermont residents over age 16 can own handguns. Federal law prohibits certain people, such as felons, from possessing guns. A state law prohibits people convicted of a violent crime from possessing firearms.

Do I need a permit to carry a weapon?

Vermont does not issue permits or require people who can legally possess weapons to carry either a concealed gun or an openly worn firearm. The Vermont Supreme Court ruled, in the 1903 case State v. Rosenthal, that a Rutland ordinance requiring people to obtain permission to carry weapons was "inconsistent with and repugnant to the Constitution and the laws of the state."

Is there anywhere in Vermont where I can't possess a weapon?

School grounds, school buses and courthouses.

Can I conceal carry in other states?

Congress is considering a law that would create concealed carry reciprocity.

catfeet 03-31-2018 05:58 PM

ITA - came here from CNY, so I feel 'ya! (in reverse). VT gun law amounts to "don't think about doing bad stuff with your gun...shoot lotsa deer, and own what you want".

The only thing I can really complain about is the healthcare exchange and their record keeping. That, frankly, sucks but hey, my friends in CNY dealing with that version say theirs sucks too.

Mast3rBlast3r 03-31-2018 06:06 PM

I personally wouldn't live anywhere in the North East, but to each their own.

Jack Swilling 03-31-2018 06:16 PM

Watch and learn.
This is from today
Love the dismissive numb-nuts
Enjoy your freedom in another Pink State that sucks big time

In gun-friendly Vermont, lawmakers pass firearms control bill
Reuters Staff


(Reuters) - Vermont lawmakers gave final legislative approval on Friday to a bill that raises the legal age for buying firearms and expands background checks, becoming the latest state poised to tighten gun restrictions after last month’s Florida school massacre.

FILE PHOTO: A man walks past a sign prohibiting firearms and weapons inside the State Legislature in Montpelier, Vermont, U.S., March 13, 2018. REUTERS/Christinne Muschi/File Photo
The Democrat-controlled state Senate approved the measure, S55, in a 17-13 vote, according to the online legislative record. The bill passed the state House of Representatives this week.

The measure now goes to Republican Governor Phil Scott, who has shifted his stance and voiced support for some gun controls after the arrest in February of a Vermont teenager accused of threatening to shoot up a high school. The incident came two days after a former student killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14.


Scott’s support for gun controls marked a sharp switch for a governor with a 93 percent approval rating from the National Rifle Association (NRA) gun rights advocacy group in an otherwise politically liberal state with a reputation as a pro-gun stronghold.

Vermont, a largely rural New England state with a passion for hunting, is one of two dozen states where efforts to curb gun violence have gained momentum since the Feb. 14 shooting rampage that killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

The Vermont bill raises the age for gun purchases to 21 and expands background checks for private gun sales. It also bans magazines of more than 10 rounds for long guns and 15 rounds for pistols as well as rapid-fire devices known as bump stocks.

Vermont Public Radio reported that the Senate would take up two more gun-related measures next week. Both are aimed at removing guns from homes in cases of domestic violence or when someone is at risk of imminent harm from firearms, it said.

Gun control advocates say the turnaround in Vermont and other states has been propelled in part by the groundswell of student-led lobbying efforts and protests calling for firearms restrictions.

After the Parkland massacre, Florida’s Republican-controlled legislature swiftly passed a bill that raised the age requirement and set a three-day waiting period for gun purchases and allowed the arming of some school personnel. The measure was signed into law by another Republican with strong NRA credentials, Governor Rick Scott.

Reporting by Ian Simpson in Washington; Editing by Susan Thomas

Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.
U.S.MARCH 31, 2018 / 12:21 PM / UPDATED 5 HOURS AGO

A_SonofLiberty 03-31-2018 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by Mast3rBlast3r (Post 18158962)
I personally wouldn't live anywhere in the North East, but to each their own.

I would consider Maine; IF I didn't have to go through the other communist north eastern states to get there.

BTW; democratic socialist is the very epitome of an oxymoron. The implicit use of force involved in the implementation of socialist redistribution programs overrides and invalidates the democracy part.

catfeet 04-01-2018 10:57 AM

And? Controlling who and when is just smart business, what with the mad climb in the rate of school shootings. It does not eliminate or change the second amendment. A removal or significant change would see the peasants storming Montpelier with sickles and hoes in hand. Heck, we are one of the few states that allows both open& concealed carry without a permit. We do really love our guns here. That said, putting them in the hands of crazy and/or too young/unable to make good choices does no-one any good.

Mast3rBlast3r 04-01-2018 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by ramblingvanman (Post 18159090)
I would consider Maine; IF I didn't have to go through the other communist north eastern states to get there.

Same here. Too close to uber liberal states for my taste. No state is perfect, so it just comes down to which state best fits what we want in life.

Wolfsbane 04-17-2018 09:30 PM

What, if anything, is being done about this?

Back when I lived in Vermont in the 70s and 80s, it was fairly easy to get voter referendums on the ballot. Can this be countered by a good old fashioned voter revolt by the people while tempers are up and people are willing to sign ballot petitions?

I was taken by surprise by this and I'm a bit concerned. All my guns that aren't allowed in NYC, currently reside at my sister's place in Vermont.

Goodwrench708 04-17-2018 09:53 PM

I’m guessing the OP has less to brag about now with those new gun control laws....hmmm
Typical New England liberal state.....

~Black.Dog~ 04-17-2018 10:05 PM

Is Bernie pro-gun? I had the feeling he wasn't.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Tyrone 04-17-2018 11:17 PM

Yeah so much for the liberal state of Vermont. Just another lib gun regulating state. Why did this not surprise me?

H_Nelson 03-07-2019 05:09 PM

Hmmm.. Been to Vermont one time. Flew in, a 12 pack van picked us up, went straight to the school house. It was a 2 week grueling 12-18 hours a day crash course on catching hackers. 12 pack van to the airport, flew out. By the time I was finished, I could dissect and read IP packets in hex, determine if it was a hand-crafted or automated attack, point of origin, etc. Fun course but was inside a building pretty much 24/7 for the duration.

benson56 03-07-2019 06:33 PM

I like where I'm at in Nebraska cuz it's 120 miles to the nearest WalMart

sonya1 03-07-2019 07:07 PM

I like Vermont, used to go up there to ski. Great ski areas. I like the way it looks too, almost like a different country, no huge advertisements on the highways, not a lot of people, lots of cows and trees, and people with gun racks in their trucks. No ghetto trash. But buying property there is very expensive, that's why we didn't move there. One other thing I like : you can sell milk there and cheese, legally.

sonya1 03-07-2019 07:08 PM


Originally Posted by benson56 (Post 19392420)
I like where I'm at in Nebraska cuz it's 120 miles to the nearest WalMart

I think the entire State of Vermont has like 1 real Walmart

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