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-   -   How much ammunition is enough? (https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=923576)

whirlibird 08-01-2019 11:38 PM

How much ammunition is enough?
 
First let me say that this is not a "you only need" post.
Nor is it a WROL or TEOTWAWKI thread.
But an everyday life thread.

So I was converting some brass over the weekend, and as I was digging some more brass out I saw one of the boxes of .22 that I inherited from my grandfather.
And I began to think about the guns that he had (both grandfathers eventually) and how little ammo that he had kept on hand (both actually).

Both were children of the depression and kept the family going on game meat, both served in in combat in WWII, one was involved in the Battle of the Bulge. Yet neither left more than a few hundred rounds of .22 and a couple of boxes of shotgun shells.

One told another family member when he presented her with his .22 rifle, to never register or turn it in.
The other was the source for many of my early survival manuals and outdoor gear.
Yet both were content with what is potentially less than I kept in my patrol car. And only one reloaded.

I looked at the five gallon buckets of brass and the cast bullets that need sized and lunricated, and thought to myself that I needed to get a move on.

But I also started wondering what is the comfort level for each caliber. The .40, since I sold mine, I have plenty. But the two ammo cans of .45 auto hunting/practice stuff, is it enough? The 150 8mm Mauser cases I just made, enough (not hardly). .300BO and .223? I'm still trying to find the right bullet to bulk load for our use, and the .300 well all that takes is money.

I know how much I want, but how much is enough to be comfortable?
Is there actually a "comfort" number for any of us?

Nomad, 2nd 08-01-2019 11:46 PM

1. SHTF (Yes you said not, but it's simple to cover.)
It's highly unlikely you will survive through 1,000 rounds of rifle ammo in combat "solo"
Put this back after check-in for function, buy another case of FMJ and reorder when you shoot up half of it.

500 rounds of pistol, .22 and shotgun determined by your hunting/harvesting expectations.

2. What your asking:
Based on ammo situations over years.... Enough to cover your shooting for 10 years.
Otherwise you may be paying $100/brick of .22, or more...y

JMHO.

fragout 08-01-2019 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlibird (Post 19683356)
First let me say that this is not a "you only need" post.
Nor is it a WROL or TEOTWAWKI thread.
But an everyday life thread.

So I was converting some brass over the weekend, and as I was digging some more brass out I saw one of the boxes of .22 that I inherited from my grandfather.
And I began to think about the guns that he had (both grandfathers eventually) and how little ammo that he had kept on hand (both actually).

Both were children of the depression and kept the family going on game meat, both served in in combat in WWII, one was involved in the Battle of the Bulge. Yet neither left more than a few hundred rounds of .22 and a couple of boxes of shotgun shells.

One told another family member when he presented her with his .22 rifle, to never register or turn it in.
The other was the source for many of my early survival manuals and outdoor gear.
Yet both were content with what is potentially less than I kept in my patrol car. And only one reloaded.

I looked at the five gallon buckets of brass and the cast bullets that need sized and lunricated, and thought to myself that I needed to get a move on.

But I also started wondering what is the comfort level for each caliber. The .40, since I sold mine, I have plenty. But the two ammo cans of .45 auto hunting/practice stuff, is it enough? The 150 8mm Mauser cases I just made, enough (not hardly). .300BO and .223? I'm still trying to find the right bullet to bulk load for our use, and the .300 well all that takes is money.

I know how much I want, but how much is enough to be comfortable?
Is there actually a "comfort" number for any of us?

How many rds of rimfire and centerfire ammo do you use to train / hunt with in every day life? If you utilize a cache program, how much ammo goes towards this item? Is this a " family and/ or group ammo effort, or an individual one?

11B

NAC/NSW/CAC 08-02-2019 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragout (Post 19683386)
How many rds of rimfire and centerfire ammo do you use to train / hunt with in every day life? If you utilize a cache program, how much ammo goes towards this item? Is this a " family and/ or group ammo effort, or an individual one?

11B

100 rounds of 7.62 x 51 mm is the equivalent weight of 210 rounds of 5.56 x 45 mm. In a Battlefield Load.

Are we even concerned with Battlefield loads of 300 win mag or 50 BMG?

I'm not familiar with Battlefield loads of .22LR.

What was the actual question again? I'm Old and forget a lot. :thumb:

whirlibird 08-02-2019 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragout (Post 19683386)
How many rds of rimfire and centerfire ammo do you use to train / hunt with in every day life? If you utilize a cache program, how much ammo goes towards this item? Is this a " family and/ or group ammo effort, or an individual one?

11B

This was one of those philosophical questions that hit me while working brass.

Hunting ammo, (big bore) if I figure 10 rounds for the next 50 years, thats only 500 rounds. And not that much work to make.

Adding in the deer/antelope options of .223/.300BO, even at 20 rounds a year, its only 1000 rounds. My hunting/practice/SHTF ammo is the same, handloads so I am working on building those up now that I have decided on what load I am sticking with.
Allowing extra for these, its still not that much.

Handguns, even replacing everything (carry gun) once a year is only 2500 rounds. My practice/target/hunting load for the .45 is nothing that I would want to stand in front of, so if SHTF hits tomorrow, I have that one well covered.

.22's, there's never enough of those regardless.

These numbers don't really cover practice or classes, but enough to keep me fed and defended until I am near the century mark.

And considering that our consumption of meat will be cut in half in a couple of years, there's potentially more years there than I have left.

FYI, I want a lot put back, not just these numbers, this is an exercise in what i need to get going/finished.

fragout 08-02-2019 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAC/NSW/CAC (Post 19683406)
100 rounds of 7.62 x 51 mm is the equivalent weight of 210 rounds of 5.56 x 45 mm. In a Battlefield Load.

Are we even concerned with Battlefield loads of 300 win mag or 50 BMG?

I'm not familiar with Battlefield loads of .22LR.

What was the actual question again? I'm Old and forget a lot. :thumb:

Go to the link below and scroll down to post number 5 regarding weight of loaded ammunition.

https://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=831626

Have a list of cartridges there. 22lr, and 50bmg are both listed.

11B

fragout 08-02-2019 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlibird (Post 19683554)
This was one of those philosophical questions that hit me while working brass.

Hunting ammo, (big bore) if I figure 10 rounds for the next 50 years, thats only 500 rounds. And not that much work to make.

Adding in the deer/antelope options of .223/.300BO, even at 20 rounds a year, its only 1000 rounds. My hunting/practice/SHTF ammo is the same, handloads so I am working on building those up now that I have decided on what load I am sticking with.
Allowing extra for these, its still not that much.

Handguns, even replacing everything (carry gun) once a year is only 2500 rounds. My practice/target/hunting load for the .45 is nothing that I would want to stand in front of, so if SHTF hits tomorrow, I have that one well covered.

.22's, there's never enough of those regardless.

These numbers don't really cover practice or classes, but enough to keep me fed and defended until I am near the century mark.

And considering that our consumption of meat will be cut in half in a couple of years, there's potentially more years there than I have left.

FYI, I want a lot put back, not just these numbers, this is an exercise in what i need to get going/finished.

It seems that your math has a minimum number for your plan to get off the ground. I think it is just a matter of multiplying that number to achieve a " comfort zone".....so to speak.

Double it? Triple it? Something else?

11B

MattB4 08-02-2019 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlibird (Post 19683356)
.... Yet neither left more than a few hundred rounds of .22 and a couple of boxes of shotgun shells.

...

I would guess they used their guns as tools. They were not concerned they suddenly would not be able to get ammo for them. They also were not big into shooting by the time they passed away.

People can overdo stockpiling of things. Even things that may be necessary given the right scenario.

Kalashnikov47 08-02-2019 07:58 AM

I figured how many times per year we go to the range, how many rounds per caliber we use per visit then how many years we'll likely be going to the range, after that I added 1.5K rounds for each caliber and firearm. Using this formula we have stocked piled enough ammo for the wife and I to last a lifetime of shooting with a lot left over...

...I will add that its taken years to get the amount of ammo we have stock piled. Your numbers will vary depending on your shooting habits and how many firearms you own or plan to own. I don't have any immediate plans to buy more firearms but if I do then I'll add more ammo to cover that firearm

Its currently a great time to buy ammo, firearms, mags and spare parts as availability and prices are good, however, that can all change in an instant...

We don't subscribe to the zombie apocalypse or end of the world type scenarios and IF we did it would be nothing short of a miracle that we would be able to use up all of the ammo, we would likely parish long before that was even a possibility. We are realistic and know our limits, we aren't going to be leaving to run off only to die a lonesome death in the woods, we likely wouldn't even make to the woods. We will stand and fight and die right here if such a scenario were to take place. I have no plans on taking all of the ammo anywhere. What I DO know is we have enough ammo to enjoy going to range for the rest of our lives as well as short term self defense situations without having to worry about running out. Whatever amount is leftover after we are gone our daughter will inherit along with the firearms.

MagnumWill 08-02-2019 08:03 AM

It's typically assigned by amount of shelf space available that doesn't intrude into the wife's day-to-day movement around the house :)

And it depends. I have 200 .38spl rounds that I swear will last me a lifetime, but yet it feels like 250 rounds of 9mm will last me less than an hour at the range. I typically try to hover around 3 range trips worth to feel comfortable with the amount.

Big_John 08-02-2019 08:11 AM

Eventually the Globalist, Socialist DemoTards will win the Presidency and they will control the House and Senate. It is inevitable. The massive cities in America that are completely full of far-leftists will control this country one day soon. Everyone that owns guns and ammo..... will immediately be unconcerned if they have enough ammo for the range for the next ten years.

When that happens, you best have all the ammo you will ever need. As another has said.... a brick of .22 will go for $100 or $200. Finding 5.56 or 7.62 will be impossible, as it will be outlawed, because it is the round that goes in those "scary guns".

How much is enough?

Right now there is a really good show on the History Channel, recounting the Revolutionary War. You know what nearly ended the rebellion and allowed the Red Coats to overrun the Patriots? Lack of Black Powder!

I think everyone should prepare for every contingency regarding weapons. We just don't know what we will face in the next 10-20-30 years. There could be Civil War 2. There could be a complete financial failure and if you can't hunt and kill rabbits, you might die of starvation. Russian, China, Terrorist Nuclear EMP's blasted above our skies, etc... etc..... I think it is smart to have enough guns and the right guns. And enough ammo. And a couple of Black Powder guns, caps, powder and bullets. Bow and arrow/Crossbow with plenty of arrows/bolts. ......and have a place to keep it where no one will ever find it.

I'm truly not an alarmist.... but I can guarantee you all that before I head north to the ole by and by.... SHTF will happen in America. ....not the next one or two generations. It will happen with this generation. And you will either be prepared.... or you won't.


.......

AK103K 08-02-2019 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattB4 (Post 19683726)
I would guess they used their guns as tools. They were not concerned they suddenly would not be able to get ammo for them. They also were not big into shooting by the time they passed away.

Youre describing most people around here to a T. Most are "hunters", not "shooters".

You should have seen them in a total panic in the local gun shops back during the last "shortage" when they couldn't get ammo to hunt with. It was pretty ugly.


Back in the 90's, when we were buying the cheap ammo like there was no end, my buddys wife brought up a very good point. "What are you going to do, if you have to run off? You cant carry it all." The girl was looking at the big picture. :)

Looking at a lot of the people I work with, most wouldnt get very far on foot with a basic loadout. How many here are in good enough shape to run around with just your gun and ammo for just a couple of days? Theres more to this than just "gear", and your health is the most important "stuff". Without it, whats the point?

If youre smart, you keep some on hand, you rotate through stuff to practice with, and you cache some, somewhere close by so you have access, should you need to R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

Realistically, if youre smart enough to keep some gear all loaded up and ready to go, thats likely all you might get if you do have to leave in a hurry.

Keep in mind too, if you are planning on caching, depending on where you are and ever-changing situations, you may be moving it a lot or losing it too, if you dont keep up and pay attention.

I live where I live now, because where we used to live, which was a lot like where I am now (very rural) when we moved there, in 20 years, it was quickly turning into the suburbs, and 13 years later now, much of it is almost unrecognizable, when we go back today.

Ive seen entire tracks of land that were once heavy woods, that no one was ever going to do things with, become housing developments in less than a year.

Even if they only timber it, and you lose all your landmarks, you could well have a very difficult time recovering things.

NW GUY 08-02-2019 08:55 AM

HOW MUCH is enough.. is more psychological than logistical.

I know up north folks who hunt all the seasons and never have more than 100 rounds of anything on hand.

I have another long time friend who gets the cold sweats if his .22LR gets down under 100,000 rounds. His main calibers he has LOTS more. The guy is in his mid-70s now and he is still buying ammo when he finds a good price but he will never live long enough to shoot it all if he lived at the range.

I always broke it down into "play ammo, as to hunting etc
and work, such as the rounds I always used a LOT. and also envisioned my primaries if it became hard times .45, 7.62 .22LR 12ga.

Play ammo required a couple hundred rounds of GOOD ammo.

Work, well when I was on the street I shot a minimum of 300 rounds a week .45. Probably 200+ a month through the rifles. A lot of reloading time spent over the presses.

ROCK6 08-02-2019 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirlibird (Post 19683356)
I know how much I want, but how much is enough to be comfortable?
Is there actually a "comfort" number for any of us?

I guess a few dozen pallets in a climate controlled shed?:D:

Realistically? I also remember how my father stretched a single box of .270 ammo (20 rounds) to four years. He put a deer and elk in the freezer every year and even a bear one year.

For me, I would like a minimum of (and continue to build towards or increase):

100 rounds per hunting rifle / 300 rounds for precision rifles

1000 rounds per defensive rifle

500 rounds per handgun or PCC

250 rounds Buck/50 rounds slug/250 rounds assorted birdshot per shotgun

5000 rounds .22LR per rifle / 1000 (typically Stinger or Hi-Velocity) per .22 handgun

For all other firearms, enough ammo to build a basic/realistic load to carry.

We can go around and around on this, but everyone's "comfort level" is going to be different. Also, I can go through 1000 rounds a month on training ammo for my rifle and handgun; others can go through that once a week. For those that don't take classes or shoot often, they could stretch 1000 rounds of "practice" ammo to a year.

For hunters, they typically go through less than 20 rounds a season (or even two seasons), allowing a few rounds to confirm zero.

It's not just about shooting ammo. Just heading to a range or your back yard and pulling the trigger while aiming at paper isn't very productive. Running drills, working off a curriculum, shooting in a competition, taking a class, etc. can use a little or a lot of ammo, but they reinforce far more than just trigger pulling.

While comfort is subjective, I will likely meet my maker and still not be satisfied or comfortable with my ammo stocks:D:

ROCK6

Outpost75 08-02-2019 11:42 AM

Lt. Hiro Onoda of the Imperial Japanese Army evaded on the island of Lubang in the PI for thirty years with an Arisaka Type 99 rifle. If you read his book his average ammuntion expenditure was 80-100 rounds per year in shooting animals for food and the occasional "shoot and scoot" engagement with Fillipino police or military who got too close.

When he came out of the jungle in 1974 he said he had sufficient ammo in his caches to last another 20 years.

His book "No Surrender, My Thirty Year War" as published by Blue Jacket Books, of the Naval Institute Press was required reading for those of us who attended SERE at Ft. Sherman, Canal Zone in the mid 1970s.

Reading between the lines the take away, as paraphrased in English by my mentor Harry J. Archer was:

"If you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot'em all..."

swamppapa 08-02-2019 11:59 AM

Never too much ammo unless you’re trying to swim

charliemeyer007 08-02-2019 12:15 PM

I encourage everyone to shoot now while its both legal and replacement ammo is available. You need to be a good shot, not just able the spray bullets down range.

Reloading can make ammo conversion possible, as in stuff that doesn't fit is now serviceable.

Hard to have too much beans, band-aides, and bullets.

CPT_MOOSE1988 08-02-2019 12:32 PM

all the bullets, all the guns, all the food....thats the correct amount

animalspooker 08-02-2019 12:43 PM

I know we aren't supposed to talk EOTW, but I think it is important to keep in mind that if something does happen, that ammo will be more valuable than money. It will probably be THE mode of exchange. 22lr has numerous uses (even self defense) and is cheap. For $200 you can get 5000 rounds. I keep about 10k rounds myself, and when the ammo went nuts ~7 years ago, I came out smelling like roses! On the other guns, I keep this:

3000 rounds - battle rifle (I have an AR for every member of the family(5))

500 rounds - long range rifle

One case for every handgun caliber I own - 6 at the moment (again, one for all of us)

12 gauge - 500 rds field, 200 rds buck shot

Again, I probably have more than I need, but it's not going bad and if anything ever does happen, I can trade it for stuff I do need and forgot to store/prep.

Herd Sniper 08-02-2019 01:01 PM

Paratroopers know that when they go into combat that they can never carry enough ammo for a long term or extended fight. Sooner or later they will have to convert to the weapons of their opposition. That's why U.S. paratroopers get training in foreign and hostile forces weapons.

I keep a couple of thousand rounds arounds for each of my primary firearms and expect that, if or when things turn hostile, I will eventually have to take over somebody else's caliber/rifle types when my ammo runs low or runs out. In some cases, I also expect that some of their ammo might work in some of my firearms. This is why I keep a couple of different types and caliber of rifles. One example would be a SAR-1 in 7.62 X 39.

My suggestion is just use some common sense and do what you feel is right for your training and situation. You may not need to store thousands and thousands of rounds but, then again, that's not a bad idea either.


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