I'm trying to trim the weight of my get home bag and have found a major culprit in the "battle of the bulge" to be ammo for my pistol. I'll likely have a long walk if I'm unable to drive, and some of The areas I'd have to move through aren't exactly upscale.... The mostly likely SHTF scenario in my area would be a major earthquake. Walking home right after such an event would probably find me in good company of others on foot and I've taken great care to blend in, so the probability that I'd even have to draw my pistol are likely slim. I'm carrying my Sig P225 with a magazine capacity of 8 rounds. I have three magazines for this pistol. Is three loaded magazines plenty? Is carrying more than that overkill? As I said, I want to carry the least amount of weight possible. I'm usually of the mindset, "better safe than sorry..." But maybe I'm just being paranoid?
Trying to lose weight.... How much ammo is really needed?
ThE_LoNgShOt
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Can you give us a general loadout of the GHB, maybe we can tweak it a little. 21 pounds is a little heavy IMO, unless some of that weight is water that you are carrying. 50 rds of 9mm weights about 1.6 lbs give or take. If you think 50 rds is to much, do what someone else suggessted, carry one more mag in a pocket.
12-15 miles per day is a good movement across dangerous ground almost anywhere/anytime in the world.
That was my rule of thumb for foot movement planning in the military. Assuming hostile people, that figure was for moving undetected at night and without encountering serious terrain obstacles. No jungle, no swamps, no mountains. Just temperate climate and wooded or open terrain. If you can just walk unimpeded (with no social drama or threats), you might average more during daylight.
You'll likely have to detour a bit...might make some good time travelling with large crowds...and might lose a lot more time avoiding restless natives in some areas. At some point you might be able to hitch or pay for a ride. All Unknowns.
For a physical fitness evaluation event, I've done a 34 mile run/march on flat pavement (mild weather, t shirt, shorts, running shoes, & camelback) in 8 hours (after sundown). I was smoked. Everyone else was smoked. Stick a fork in us...DONE. Everyone (about 80 males) in great athletic shape at the start and zero stressors during the event. No earthquake, no riots, no worries.
You ain't gonna do 50 miles in a one day push without a ride.
That was my rule of thumb for foot movement planning in the military. Assuming hostile people, that figure was for moving undetected at night and without encountering serious terrain obstacles. No jungle, no swamps, no mountains. Just temperate climate and wooded or open terrain. If you can just walk unimpeded (with no social drama or threats), you might average more during daylight.
You'll likely have to detour a bit...might make some good time travelling with large crowds...and might lose a lot more time avoiding restless natives in some areas. At some point you might be able to hitch or pay for a ride. All Unknowns.
For a physical fitness evaluation event, I've done a 34 mile run/march on flat pavement (mild weather, t shirt, shorts, running shoes, & camelback) in 8 hours (after sundown). I was smoked. Everyone else was smoked. Stick a fork in us...DONE. Everyone (about 80 males) in great athletic shape at the start and zero stressors during the event. No earthquake, no riots, no worries.
You ain't gonna do 50 miles in a one day push without a ride.
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My pack has a 2.5L hydration bladder in it which accounts for a fair bit of weight, yes.
Speculating on how much can be frustrating,
But this I think makes sense .
Carry 100 rounds ,if you are stalled by a fire fight in a particular area your some what covered. If you know with out a doublt that home is secure and he path is clear ,stash the BOB in a safe place and go lite, taking your time getting to your BOL to make sure your not going to run into some one that got there before you.
Once you are secure, and you feel it is safe to venture out , you can recover your BOB.
If things did not work out as planned ,you can go back to your BOB and make new plans.
Having a stash can also help some one you have comming behind you at a later date ,if you have communications established .
Options also can include cashs with in your planned route that can be useful long after the event has simmered down .
This is all sacrificial equipment so what you leave you don't cry about if it is discovered by some one else .
Water, ammo, candy bars , knife, trash bag, in a water proof ammo box .
Be sure you land marks are not homes or trees or areas that might be developed in the future.
And mark you map
But this I think makes sense .
Carry 100 rounds ,if you are stalled by a fire fight in a particular area your some what covered. If you know with out a doublt that home is secure and he path is clear ,stash the BOB in a safe place and go lite, taking your time getting to your BOL to make sure your not going to run into some one that got there before you.
Once you are secure, and you feel it is safe to venture out , you can recover your BOB.
If things did not work out as planned ,you can go back to your BOB and make new plans.
Having a stash can also help some one you have comming behind you at a later date ,if you have communications established .
Options also can include cashs with in your planned route that can be useful long after the event has simmered down .
This is all sacrificial equipment so what you leave you don't cry about if it is discovered by some one else .
Water, ammo, candy bars , knife, trash bag, in a water proof ammo box .
Be sure you land marks are not homes or trees or areas that might be developed in the future.
And mark you map
Well, none of us have been through a SHTF situation so is all just guessing. My guess is that it will take more than 3 day for rule of law to breakdown in the regular world. In the parts of the world where there isn't rule of law today? Like ghettos or urban blight, whatever they call it now?
I would avoid those areas. I don't know what your ethnicity is but...I am a white guy, for instance, and there is no way I am walking through Watts or someplace like that. If there are mobs of people rioting, your chances of having a brick bounced off your skull from behind are pretty good, ask Reginald Denny. A gun won't do you any good unless you can use to keep some standoff space.
I think you are carrying a good amount. It is enough that you can return fire a few times without worry but not enough to weigh you down. And chances are, you won't even need anything for the first couple weeks.
I would avoid those areas. I don't know what your ethnicity is but...I am a white guy, for instance, and there is no way I am walking through Watts or someplace like that. If there are mobs of people rioting, your chances of having a brick bounced off your skull from behind are pretty good, ask Reginald Denny. A gun won't do you any good unless you can use to keep some standoff space.
I think you are carrying a good amount. It is enough that you can return fire a few times without worry but not enough to weigh you down. And chances are, you won't even need anything for the first couple weeks.
I initially used a paraordinance P14 (.45cal)with 3 extra mags in a back pack with a 2L hydration bladder. Then I want to a 9mm Bersa that accepted 30 round mags but decided that that was overkill, so went to a Makarow with 4 extra mags. Left everything else a home for home defense. I figure that 9mm Mak is a good round and doesn't add weight.
I do have question though about the Taurus Judge with 3" magnum shot shell. I figure that it is a very good home defense gun and shouldn't breech to out walls and endanger passerbys. Anyone have any experience with using this shotgun/revolver? Just curious, I did get it for home defense.
I do have question though about the Taurus Judge with 3" magnum shot shell. I figure that it is a very good home defense gun and shouldn't breech to out walls and endanger passerbys. Anyone have any experience with using this shotgun/revolver? Just curious, I did get it for home defense.
My thought has been pack what you think you need for ammo then add more. My edc is a ruger p345 (8 rd mag) I carry 2 spare mags. In my bag I keep 1 mag and a 50 rd box. Keep more ammo in car. My bag weighs 31 pounds (bag alone is 5lbs)with food, water, shelter, sleep gear and clothes. If I couldn't carry at least 50 extra rounds I would find what I can ditch so I could.
The thing that makes the OP's scenario difficult to judge is that while there is little likelihood of needing a lot of handgun ammo at anytime in your life, a major earthquake in SoCal might change that equation by adding a probability of riot, random desperation, or opportunistic crime. Maybe in short order.
Many of us are not able to discretely and practically keep a rifle and ammo on with us at all times. Thus, a CCW handgun is the weapon most likely to be taken to the dance.
You might do the entire get home earthquake trip with no violent encounter or threat of such. On the other hand, you might wind up in the wrong place at the wrong time and be the next Reginald Denny...or just get robbed.
At that point, all internet advice concerning statistical gunfight round counts may just go out the window. For one brief flurry of seconds or minutes...you might need every round you have. And wish for a long gun.
Most rioting crowds run from gunfire...but there's always a few folks who won't. That's when you run into the 5-shot J Frame dilemma. Good for 99% of typical shooting situations...until it isn't.
Ammo in your weapon and on your body will probably suffice. Spare reloads carried in a pack are certainly doable. Ammo in a box is less useful. The weight of a reload or three in your pack shouldn't be the deciding weight factor.
Many of us are not able to discretely and practically keep a rifle and ammo on with us at all times. Thus, a CCW handgun is the weapon most likely to be taken to the dance.
You might do the entire get home earthquake trip with no violent encounter or threat of such. On the other hand, you might wind up in the wrong place at the wrong time and be the next Reginald Denny...or just get robbed.
At that point, all internet advice concerning statistical gunfight round counts may just go out the window. For one brief flurry of seconds or minutes...you might need every round you have. And wish for a long gun.
Most rioting crowds run from gunfire...but there's always a few folks who won't. That's when you run into the 5-shot J Frame dilemma. Good for 99% of typical shooting situations...until it isn't.
Ammo in your weapon and on your body will probably suffice. Spare reloads carried in a pack are certainly doable. Ammo in a box is less useful. The weight of a reload or three in your pack shouldn't be the deciding weight factor.
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well, what would be the expected duration of your GHB. IO would say that 24 rds would be plenty for 1-2 altercations (pools indicate an average of 8 rds fired per altercation, assuming 12 rds as a conservative estimate). I myself would like at least 4 altercations in my GHB which would be 48 rds. This is opposed to my edc btw which is 24 rds.
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I would say three 8 rd mags is plenty for a GHB in most scenarios.
If it was for a BOB I would say it is NOT enough, but if the goal is simply to get home (where I assume you have more rounds and weaponry) I would say in most SHTF scenarios it will be plenty.
Bugging out, I would certainly want more.
If it was for a BOB I would say it is NOT enough, but if the goal is simply to get home (where I assume you have more rounds and weaponry) I would say in most SHTF scenarios it will be plenty.
Bugging out, I would certainly want more.
Odd man out here.
1. You won't survive a lot of firefights, especially against gangs. Choose your tactic, but maybe fire a shot to discourage pursuit, and run. Remember, you are probably caught out in the open. A zigzagging running target is hard to hit. Just a thought.
2. We have had tons of threads on how deadly the .22lr is. It's also accurate for some due to less expected recoil. There was once a link to how many deer are poached with one, and slaughter houses use them on cattle. They are danged little perpetrators. If the idea is to discourage someone, it's worth a thought because ammo is so light. I'm talking about a reason to keep someone from pursuing you, not ultimate knockdown power. After all the goal of the military is to wound and cause buddies to stop and help. Just a thought.
We have also had lots of threads where experienced people, even in polls, chose the .22lr as the weapon of choice for a permanent bug out into the forest. Just another thought. If you get a center of mass hit with a .22, some people will look for an easier target. Do not underestimate that round, but don't necessarily choose it. I'm just tossing it out there for thought.
I agree it will take you days to get home, 50 miles across that inland, and I agree the sooner the better while the sheeple wait for Fema. Your problem may be with gangs who like any opportunity to cause a ruckus. Your travel will be at night.
Who was that guy who did all of the posting from Bosnia/Serbia after their meltdown? Troll or not, he had some great thoughts.
Anyone remember and can find a link?
1. You won't survive a lot of firefights, especially against gangs. Choose your tactic, but maybe fire a shot to discourage pursuit, and run. Remember, you are probably caught out in the open. A zigzagging running target is hard to hit. Just a thought.
2. We have had tons of threads on how deadly the .22lr is. It's also accurate for some due to less expected recoil. There was once a link to how many deer are poached with one, and slaughter houses use them on cattle. They are danged little perpetrators. If the idea is to discourage someone, it's worth a thought because ammo is so light. I'm talking about a reason to keep someone from pursuing you, not ultimate knockdown power. After all the goal of the military is to wound and cause buddies to stop and help. Just a thought.
We have also had lots of threads where experienced people, even in polls, chose the .22lr as the weapon of choice for a permanent bug out into the forest. Just another thought. If you get a center of mass hit with a .22, some people will look for an easier target. Do not underestimate that round, but don't necessarily choose it. I'm just tossing it out there for thought.
I agree it will take you days to get home, 50 miles across that inland, and I agree the sooner the better while the sheeple wait for Fema. Your problem may be with gangs who like any opportunity to cause a ruckus. Your travel will be at night.
Who was that guy who did all of the posting from Bosnia/Serbia after their meltdown? Troll or not, he had some great thoughts.
Anyone remember and can find a link?
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yeah this whole thread I keep thinking of my walther p22 and that 100 rounds of 22lr is about the same weight as 20 rounds of 45 and it is quieter and with 2 clips added to that you would be fine and under 2 pounds
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You win every gunfight you never get into.
Practice propper avoidance and the number of bullets you will need is none. You have plenty of ammo.
My advice is make the walk you think you may have too after an earthquake WITH your BOB/GHB. See what you use and focus on that, look for potential obstacles (bridges, power lines, waterways) and make that your secondary focal point. And as a tertiary make sure you are up for such a trek. By that I mean are you in shape enough to make the trip? Happy prepping.
Practice propper avoidance and the number of bullets you will need is none. You have plenty of ammo.
My advice is make the walk you think you may have too after an earthquake WITH your BOB/GHB. See what you use and focus on that, look for potential obstacles (bridges, power lines, waterways) and make that your secondary focal point. And as a tertiary make sure you are up for such a trek. By that I mean are you in shape enough to make the trip? Happy prepping.
The 22 is a great round. Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that 24 rounds was sufficient for gunbattles. I was saying it was sufficient to make them put their heads down as you run.
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I don't think you'll get very far after a firefight, so avoiding any conflict is the best approach, so if you plan to be blazing off rounds along the way you'll probably attract a lot of attention. I have extra ammo in my truck that can be tossed in my bag, but I only keep a couple mags in it for an actual hike.
Something even more important to think about is having a decent pair of broken in walking shoes, clean socks, foot powder, and mole skin- I had all but a pair of old running shoes in my wife's bag until just the other day since she wears nice office type shoes at her work.
Something even more important to think about is having a decent pair of broken in walking shoes, clean socks, foot powder, and mole skin- I had all but a pair of old running shoes in my wife's bag until just the other day since she wears nice office type shoes at her work.
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Agreed.... I have no intention of looking for, or engaging trouble. My pistol and however much ammo I carry will be used as a last line of defense. I plan to utilize all available strategies for remaining stealth on my journey.
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My .02.. I carry my XD 9 with one extra mag all the time. In my truck I have my shoulder rig with 2 more mags and my possibles kit has one more mag in it. Each mag is 16 rounds. My possibles kit has a change of clothes and a poncho. When and if ya are confronted, you will most likely try to break contact (RUN) by throwing rounds at the problem as ya try to un a55 the area.
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If your survival rate after exchanging one shot each is an optimistic 90% that means, that after 8 shots exchanged your survival rate would be 43% and after 24 shots it would be 8%.
So do you believe that you would still be alive after so many gun fights that 24 rounds have been exchanged?
So do you believe that you would still be alive after so many gun fights that 24 rounds have been exchanged?
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