I discovered the stuff a few months back. It looked interesting, but it's made from plants, and I don't trust things that are marketed using the "SEAL" "Special Forces" or other types of name. It reminds me too much of Vulcan Arms, and EXTREME SHOK!!! ammunition.
Anyway, I bought some of it anyway, because I was curious about it.
The first thing I did was coat a few nails with it and then subject them to salt-water. They rusted about like any other common firearm lubricant would allow. Which is to say, it helped--some. I was kindof non-plussed, as regular old CLP did a lot better.
At this point, I had read a bunch of hype on the internet, lots of outlandish claims from a few dealers, a few believable ones from other dealers, and a bunch of opinion. I decided to call Mr. Laskey. I did. The man was polite, but he was very reluctant to divulge information about the product other than "it works" and "the military likes it". It has no NSN number, and I know if you give a grunt something for free of course they will like it, so that didn't mean anything to me. More hype in my opinion.
Anyway, I know a few guys who I know for a fact "really are" "special forces". I talked to them about it and yes, they actually DID use the stuff and highly recommended it to me. Well, these people have "seen the elephant" and pretty labels don't mean crap to 'em, so I figured maybe I should give the stuff another go--but the lack of information on the product was disturbing, so I was left with testimony, and kitchen experiments.
I did the best I could with this, and approached it again with an open mind. Along the way, I began collecting real data (4-ball wear test) from other, better funded, interested parties (who did not like Froglube, yet changed their tune after their own research).
I discovered a few things about Froglube that I think are pertinent:
---It protects physically, not so much chemically. A PHYSICAL barrier is what it creates. If you are using it as a protectant, put it on THICK! I failed to do this initially testing it. Subsequently, it has done very well when applied properly for storage.
---Froglube mixes and plays just fine with petrochemicals--the CLP contains about 50% petrochemicals in the form of PAO. Don't sweat about alcohol and all that, just change the weapon over to it, if you want. No magic here.
---Froglube really does keep carbon from sticking--but equally as important, when FL burns off, it does NOT leave any ash or coked deposits behind. A lot of what you see on a bolt-tail in an AR-15 is just this.
---Froglube and the newer SEAL-1 are very similar, but SEAL-1 is "firmer". I think they just took whatever ingredient in Froglube makes it temperature sensitive, and increased it's proportion in SEAL-1. I do not know the price of ingredients, nor the ingredients, but this might also account for SEAL-1's slightly lower price.
---I have not noted any abnormal wear on my Noveske with about 400+ rounds down the tube using Froglube. It has not malfunctioned once. However, I wouldn't expect it to, anyway, even running bone dry, only firing 1-200 rounds an outing.
---I actually can (with the exception of the bolt-tail which requires a finger-nail) clean the entire rifle, sans bore and chamber, with a microfiber cloth.
Here is the physical evidence I have collected during my time of trying to prove that Froglube was crap, and actually becoming a user myself, in the process, and really liking it. The 4-ball wear-test was done by ASTM D4172 standards, by an independent party.
Anyway, I don't think it can get any more non-biased than this, as I don't sell it, don't want to sell it, and started out trying to prove that the product sucked. I still hate the marketing, but it's a solid product and I strongly recommend it to friends, family, and whoever cares about what I have to say on the 'net. Also, apologies to the MOD/Fisherman that I got into it with over the Froglube product in the beginning. When I'm right, I'm not going to back down, and when I'm wrong, I will gladly acknowledge it and adopt the better way. Apologies for posting negatively in your thread.
Data/vids/pictures I compiled. The rifle pictured is not mine, it has had FL Paste run in it since it was new, this is at the 350 round mark:
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This is a very interesting visual explanation of the flash-point of FL vs. Weaponshield and LaRue MG Lube (Group V Synthetic w/Moly added).
For something made from a plant...wow. Note also no ash...
http://youtu.be/LXNAYT9ijJ
http://youtu.be/Idg4TcWIzjo
Here is the 4-ball wear data.
SCAR is 0.5766mm, compared to 0.8mm for CLP, and 0.56mm for SLIP2000. Mil-spec for an oil for firearm use is 0.8mm, and for a grease, 0.6mm.
![Image]()
Anyway, I bought some of it anyway, because I was curious about it.
The first thing I did was coat a few nails with it and then subject them to salt-water. They rusted about like any other common firearm lubricant would allow. Which is to say, it helped--some. I was kindof non-plussed, as regular old CLP did a lot better.
At this point, I had read a bunch of hype on the internet, lots of outlandish claims from a few dealers, a few believable ones from other dealers, and a bunch of opinion. I decided to call Mr. Laskey. I did. The man was polite, but he was very reluctant to divulge information about the product other than "it works" and "the military likes it". It has no NSN number, and I know if you give a grunt something for free of course they will like it, so that didn't mean anything to me. More hype in my opinion.
Anyway, I know a few guys who I know for a fact "really are" "special forces". I talked to them about it and yes, they actually DID use the stuff and highly recommended it to me. Well, these people have "seen the elephant" and pretty labels don't mean crap to 'em, so I figured maybe I should give the stuff another go--but the lack of information on the product was disturbing, so I was left with testimony, and kitchen experiments.
I did the best I could with this, and approached it again with an open mind. Along the way, I began collecting real data (4-ball wear test) from other, better funded, interested parties (who did not like Froglube, yet changed their tune after their own research).
I discovered a few things about Froglube that I think are pertinent:
---It protects physically, not so much chemically. A PHYSICAL barrier is what it creates. If you are using it as a protectant, put it on THICK! I failed to do this initially testing it. Subsequently, it has done very well when applied properly for storage.
---Froglube mixes and plays just fine with petrochemicals--the CLP contains about 50% petrochemicals in the form of PAO. Don't sweat about alcohol and all that, just change the weapon over to it, if you want. No magic here.
---Froglube really does keep carbon from sticking--but equally as important, when FL burns off, it does NOT leave any ash or coked deposits behind. A lot of what you see on a bolt-tail in an AR-15 is just this.
---Froglube and the newer SEAL-1 are very similar, but SEAL-1 is "firmer". I think they just took whatever ingredient in Froglube makes it temperature sensitive, and increased it's proportion in SEAL-1. I do not know the price of ingredients, nor the ingredients, but this might also account for SEAL-1's slightly lower price.
---I have not noted any abnormal wear on my Noveske with about 400+ rounds down the tube using Froglube. It has not malfunctioned once. However, I wouldn't expect it to, anyway, even running bone dry, only firing 1-200 rounds an outing.
---I actually can (with the exception of the bolt-tail which requires a finger-nail) clean the entire rifle, sans bore and chamber, with a microfiber cloth.
Here is the physical evidence I have collected during my time of trying to prove that Froglube was crap, and actually becoming a user myself, in the process, and really liking it. The 4-ball wear-test was done by ASTM D4172 standards, by an independent party.
Anyway, I don't think it can get any more non-biased than this, as I don't sell it, don't want to sell it, and started out trying to prove that the product sucked. I still hate the marketing, but it's a solid product and I strongly recommend it to friends, family, and whoever cares about what I have to say on the 'net. Also, apologies to the MOD/Fisherman that I got into it with over the Froglube product in the beginning. When I'm right, I'm not going to back down, and when I'm wrong, I will gladly acknowledge it and adopt the better way. Apologies for posting negatively in your thread.
Data/vids/pictures I compiled. The rifle pictured is not mine, it has had FL Paste run in it since it was new, this is at the 350 round mark:
This is a very interesting visual explanation of the flash-point of FL vs. Weaponshield and LaRue MG Lube (Group V Synthetic w/Moly added).
For something made from a plant...wow. Note also no ash...
http://youtu.be/LXNAYT9ijJ
http://youtu.be/Idg4TcWIzjo
Here is the 4-ball wear data.
SCAR is 0.5766mm, compared to 0.8mm for CLP, and 0.56mm for SLIP2000. Mil-spec for an oil for firearm use is 0.8mm, and for a grease, 0.6mm.
:
