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#62 ·
LaciRich said:
I come from a family of hunters. Our animals were always, and still are always, instrumental in our survival techniques and routines. My brother breeds hunting hounds on the side. We have only owned two dogs that were not specifically bought and/or bred for country living, guard and hunting. Those two dogs were the biggest pains in the rump we ever owned.

What I'm getting at here is that we do not own dogs that do not fulfill a specific role to our household living. And, no "pet" is not a legitimate role in our opinion. As a result, we don't get attached to our dogs like most people in the U.S. these days do. We realize what they are for, and if and when they become a liability due to ill health or whatnot, we euthanize and move onto another animal that can take over. We would never need to leave them behind because they're part of the plan. They earn their rights to be there.

That said, "pets" will be a great liability for many families in the U.S. should anything severe ever happen. The reason for this is because they have moved beyond the reasonable as far as pets are concerned. They are willing to starve themselves to feed their pets because their pets have no real, logical function within the household. They eat, sleep and s**t and not much else for lack of a better way to put it.

I think a lot of people will end up having to make some very tough decisions in those cases. I don't think two boxers are useless particularly. They can be trained to do what other large breeds can be. But there are totally useless dogs that will be held up as "family members" to groups when people are looking to find a community post SHTF and that useless dog is an extra mouth that doesn't earn it's keep. I wouldn't be surprised to see certain groups shoot those on sight as an attention getter to the severity of the issue. It really is very serious. It will be survival of the fittest, or can be if the SHTF is severe enough.

Everyone should be aware that Fifi and Fido might not always be welcome unless they fill a function. This is my personal view on the matter, going off of family view and history.
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There are some dogs that are worthless but not many. Our Little Bichons for instance swim and fetch and Fisher even brings ducks in . But those little guys are best at entertaining children. Pets are essential in keeping little kids from losing it in terrible situations. THE STRONGEST SURVIVING IS FOR US MEN TO HANDLE. Little kids and some women will need a lap dog just to get them through the times. Our Bichons are great little watch dogs with tremendous vision and hearing. I always know when someone is here cause Dazee starts barking . she hears what I dont. There are so many things dogs and cats will be good for. I just dont see them as worthless. I have owned dogs that were pretty worthless. I had a springer that wouldnt hunt, a beagle that always ran off for days until he got shot. Over the last 10 years our Bichons have made us over $50,000.00 from sale of pups. Our Male Fisher Price is 9 years old and we just got him fixed. He sired well over 100 pups. Dog money bought a lot of survival gear.

What I do see is that anyone not prepared for themselves will also not be prepared for their animals. Like the guy who raises 50 rabbits and depends on the feed mill for pellets to feed them. Or the guy who buys hay to feed his two horses and cow but has no feed source of his own. The same goes for dogs and cats. How WILL you feed them and have you planned this into your situation? I bought several meat grinders and a good bone meal grinder for turning bones of all type into meal. Deer bones, rabbit, squirrel, fish, goose etc. Lots of stuff to feed the dogs around here. Kingfish
 
#63 ·
Jules64 said:
My 2 German Shepherds will be bugging out with me if I absolutely have to leave. I have begun doing a BO test with them once a month. They have packs like below and are being trained to keep low (came pretty natural with this breed), bark only when threatened and to attack, crawl, sit, etc on command using dutch or a hiss. They never wander and stick right with me even in gunfire and things like fireworks. Training, training training...best bet for your dogs survival...and yours!

On the other side of the coin, my Pug has not been so easy to train. He'll stick with me until he hears anything like gunfire, and will go ballistic barking after the noise. You can't even muzzle these little guys, so I'm not sure what I will do with him. :(

View attachment 52444 View attachment 52445
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Keep up the training with your pug. Exercise for at least 30 minutes a day tends to tire them and make them quieter. Teach it to lie down. Dogs don't usually bark when lying down. Then, if your dog barks and won't quit, it should stop if you command it to lie down. Make sure everyone in your house is using the same commands to stop barking. Remain calm when ordering your dog to stop barking. I assume you do all this since you trained the other dogs successfully.

Do not reward your dog with treats or praise until he is quiet. Do not feed him until he sits quietly. Make sure you DO reward him or feed him as soon as he is quiet so that he knows why he is being rewarded. (Obviously, I am NOT saying to let your dog go all day without food, or, even to skip a meal. It might take several days of trying to get him to be quiet.) Ignore your dog until he is quiet. Then, give him a treat and praise him.

If all else fails, take the pug somewhere daily and allow it to bark. If you are at home during a SHTF situation, this could be an interior room you have soundproofed. Some dogs, such as hounds, need to bark.
I am not a fan of anti-bark collars but they might be useful as a last resort in a SHTF case. Vocal cordectomy is not an option I would consider.
 
#64 ·
billt460 said:
A year ago May 11th I lost my Golden Retreiver Sam. He was 10 and could no longer walk, his hips were gone. I was there when the vet gave him the shot. His head dropped into my hand. I'll remember that until the day I die. I would like another dog, but at this time I just don't know. Leave him behind? I can barely live without him. Bill T.

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You owe it to Sam to adopt another pet. There are millions of homeless dogs and cats who need good homes.
 
#65 ·
Cuppycake said:
We used to have a Boston, love those dogs. :)

I've been looking into getting packs for our dogs, I think I read somewhere that a dog can carry 15% of their body weight when well conditioned. So, our dogs could carry about 10.5 lbs for the female and 13.5 lbs for the male.

When it comes right down to it, most of us love our dogs. A dog is worth his weight in gold (or rice, or bullets, or what have you) for the social and emotional comfort he can give to his humans. I've said it before and I'll say it again, one's emotional health is going to be extremely important in any disaster. You just can't think straight when you're upset or beaten down. Petting your dog releases endorphins (in you and him), it's a scientific fact that interacting with your dog makes you feel better and live longer.
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Scientific evidence for BOTH dogs and cats reducing stress and increasing longevity.
 
#66 ·
Me and the three Great Danes and the Rat Terrier will hoof it in a SHTF bug-out situation. I have a separate bag for the dogs which includes antacid tablets (as Danes are prone to bloat), collapsible food/water bowls, styptic powder, nail clippers, finger condom style toothbrushes, cedar oil spray for repelling fleas, mosquitoes, ticks and other pests, leashes, brush, Benadryl, rags, and a couple of lightweight blankets. I also have a separate first-aid kit for the dogs that include ear wipes and a veterinary guide to injuries and illnesses.

I wouldn't pack food, because cans are heavy and kibble does expire. They would eat whatever we ate and whatever they could kill on their own. These are dogs bred for taking down various critters (I've watched my Ratty take down rats, voles, and possum. The Danes are bred for boar hunting), so I'm confident they wouldn't go hungry between what we eat and their natural hunting abilities. Besides that, the amount of kibble these dogs consume in a given week could never be carried easily. We're talking around 50lbs of dry food per week.

I've trained all of my dogs for emergency recall using a clicker, so I would be confident they would stay with us and not run off. They all have collars and tags, though, so they could be readily identified if they ran off and were picked up.
 
#67 ·
LaciRich said:
I come from a family of hunters. Our animals were always, and still are always, instrumental in our survival techniques and routines. My brother breeds hunting hounds on the side. We have only owned two dogs that were not specifically bought and/or bred for country living, guard and hunting. Those two dogs were the biggest pains in the rump we ever owned.

What I'm getting at here is that we do not own dogs that do not fulfill a specific role to our household living. And, no "pet" is not a legitimate role in our opinion. As a result, we don't get attached to our dogs like most people in the U.S. these days do. We realize what they are for, and if and when they become a liability due to ill health or whatnot, we euthanize and move onto another animal that can take over. We would never need to leave them behind because they're part of the plan. They earn their rights to be there.

That said, "pets" will be a great liability for many families in the U.S. should anything severe ever happen. The reason for this is because they have moved beyond the reasonable as far as pets are concerned. They are willing to starve themselves to feed their pets because their pets have no real, logical function within the household. They eat, sleep and s**t and not much else for lack of a better way to put it.

I think a lot of people will end up having to make some very tough decisions in those cases. I don't think two boxers are useless particularly. They can be trained to do what other large breeds can be. But there are totally useless dogs that will be held up as "family members" to groups when people are looking to find a community post SHTF and that useless dog is an extra mouth that doesn't earn it's keep. I wouldn't be surprised to see certain groups shoot those on sight as an attention getter to the severity of the issue. It really is very serious. It will be survival of the fittest, or can be if the SHTF is severe enough.

Everyone should be aware that Fifi and Fido might not always be welcome unless they fill a function. This is my personal view on the matter, going off of family view and history.
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Pets do fulfill a function in humans lives beyond hunting abilities. In fact, you do not really need an animal to hunt with you. However, they provide assistance. More importantly, they provide necessary companionship, which is invaluable.
I can tell you straight up that a cold-hearted person like you would not find shelter at my place. Survival of the fittest includes those with the best mindset and strong morals, not just physical abilities.
I would regard someone who could cast a pet aside so easily as someone who would be untrustworthy and likely to stab me in the back at the first opportunity.
 
#68 ·
benajah said:
I have 3, a Mastiff, a collie mix, and a Cocker Spaniel mix. I love my dogs, they are my buddies.
Humans and dogs have been together a very long time, 15,000 years, plenty long enough for us and them to be hardwired to be together. In my opinion a house or a hunting party without a dog is missing something.
However, I caution something. I have been in a lot of places in the world over a lot of years, been around a lot of people who live in less civilized conditions than we do now who keep dogs and that really close bond...they don't quite have that in those places. They have dogs, and love their dogs, but life is rough there and they know that the dogs are there to do a job, and often that job gets them killed.
I love my dogs, but when things go bad, the job we ask dogs to do is usually the most dangerous one.
Last time I lost a dog due to violence, in 2005 was rough, her name was Scrappy, I still feel so bad about it.
Life is tough, and will be tougher when things go bad. keep your attachments in perspective.
Housepets are not in the plan for when things go bad. That is a liability. Dogs, as much as I love them, are for working, they earn their keep.
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Then, I guess your family will be a liability as well, if they are children or elderly and sick and can't perform a useful function. So, I guess they would not fit into your plan either.
 
#71 ·
KittyCat109 said:
Then, I guess your family will be a liability as well, if they are children or elderly and sick and can't perform a useful function. So, I guess they would not fit into your plan either.
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I think it's vital to keep things in perspective. While pets are oftentimes a substitute for children for some people who either cannot have or do not want to have children, they aren't on the same level of importance as a human child or an elderly parent. I pray that I never have to make the choice between taking my dogs or making sure I have enough food to feed my son in a severe SHTF situation, but you can be rest assured I'm going to give preferential treatment to my child. I love my dogs and they are a vital part of our family, but my human companions will always take priority over my four-legged ones when it comes down to life or death situations.
 
#72 ·
Once I started down the path of survivalism I decided that I would only have animals that would be of some use to me. I own a black labrador retriever that is an ecellent hunter. I could never own a yappy dog they drive me nuts. My cat keeps the house clear of flies, bugs, spiders and rodents. I feel the same way about farm animals. If I can't eat it, milk it, or use it for chores like plowing or getting me from one place to another then I have no use for feeding it. The two animals that I have I woud take both with me and do whatever I could to make sure they eat well. I see them as companions not children. I have 2 real kids. I have a friend that keeps exotic animals for no real purpose other then he likes to say he has them. I think its foolish to feed animals that give no return. He can't milk them, get eggs from them or wool or meat. I refer to them as his yard ornaments.
 
#73 ·
Lacirich, i have to ask, becuase i wanted to explode after reading your post. Do you give your dogs any love and interaction at all outside of training? Do you pet them and play with them? Or are they just tools to be put away when training is over and the poop is cleaned up? I understand not keeping usefull dogs and only wanting dogs that hunt well. What i dont understand is not "likeing" your dogs and showing them some emotional feedback. You sound like the guy i bought(rescued) my beagle from. He only ever took him out of his small kennel to run in the rabbit run and to hunt. Never given any emotional care what so ever. So now i have a neededy, lovebug of a beagle, that can hunt, but needs a lil finish work.

So, how is it? I am a big dog lover and love my dogs. I give each one a job. Even "useless" pets can be tuaght to do something very important, and that is sound the alarm. I understand your desire to have usefull dogs, i get it, what got me concerned is do you care for them and play and pet with them outside of a training scenario?

I dont mean to be critical here, if i came off that way i do appologize. I just love my dogs, they be come my friends and after a while i find my self with a strong emotional attachment. I just cant see my self only taking them out to train and and hunt then back into there cage, I love playing with them.
 
#74 ·
Unless you are defending your place you plan on making a stand from, when the dog food runs out, good luck eating anything in front of them without them begging, then the heart strings are tugged on, your food depleted far faster, when their rations get smaller they will have a sense of resentment. If you are on the run and its live or die, turn cold and let them go.
 
#75 ·
sqidd, I can understand your dilemma. Our dogs are like our children as well. We don't have any intention of getting rid of them.

Have you considered training them? Teaching them that when they're on a leash you mean business might help. Also, keep in mind that boxers are larger dogs. They always seem to take longer to grow up, and sometimes the bigger ones never do, they're like kids their whole lives.

Good luck to you!
 
Discussion starter · #76 ·
kokosmom2 said:
Eventually the pain will lessen...sometimes it takes a very very long time. I lost my heartdog almost 4 yrs ago. I was looking at his picture today and started to cry. I have 4 now and I'm very glad I have them
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I lost "My Guy" (Ootis, pronounced Ooooootis) to cancer at 7 1/2 years old 3 years ago and I still have a hard time looking at his picture. It crushed me. But its getting better and now when I think of him a smile comes to my face sometimes. I'll never be able to get the image of him passing in my lap out of my head though. That was horrible. My duty as his "Dad", but horrible.

I did happen across a fantastic puppy right away though after Ootis passed and even though it hurt to "replace" him it turned out great. Tug (my new guy) will never be Ootis, and I don't want him to be. But he is a fantastic friend, buddy and family member in his own way so I don't regret bringing him into the house right away.

No matter how much it hurts loosing them I couldn't imagine being without one. Part of the deal I guess.

Pic of Ootis (the one on the right) atached. R.I.P.
 

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#77 ·
People have had dogs in worse conditions. When we first started domesticating them, that was a shtf style of life all the time, yet we managed to have dogs.. The way i see it, if you staying put, and not moving around much, then you dog wont need that much food as compared to a active dog. I dont understand how you can just turn cold odessa. Tell that to my autistic 4 year old who only started opening up becuase of my beagle... Tell him that he is of no use and that we should kill him. Yep thatll work out, he will crawl right back into that shell and never come out again.. Sorry but dogs have a place, you just have to give them a job.

Granted alot of pets will be set free, but i would think as survivalists we would be prepared to feed our pets as well, considering what they do for us. Sure we obsess about our guns and ammo piles, but do we put in the time needed to train our 4 legged companions in the skills needed not only to keep us alive but them as well?

My friend used to raise english mastifs before they moved here. Those dogs are more then capable of feeding themselvs. She said that other breeders have had mastifs run off and chase down and kill deers before. Back in the old days, mastifs had to have a toe removed on there feet so the couldnt chase down and kill the kings deer.
 
#78 ·
kframe said:
My question is, can you teach a hunting dog to protect?? Like train a lab in schutzhund or ring? Or Teach a malinois or german shepard to hunt? My big issue with dogs is there so uber specialized that some breeds only do one thing well. Hell very few german shepards acutally shepard. Sure you can get naturaly protective dogs, but they need to be trained for safety reasons. They need to know when to bite and more importantly when to release. Sure there instinct is there in some breeds but you need to controll it.

Personaly i think a Curr is a great survivalist dog. They can hunt, can protect and are strong enough to pull things. Just great all around dogs..
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I'm not sure you can teach ANY dog for protection work. There are some fabulous dog trainers out there, and some amazing dogs with all levels of Schutzhund titles. However, most Schutzhund trainers will tell you that it takes a very special dog to perform like that (and I'm sure this is true for other specialty "dog sports" like herding, coon hunting ect) and not every dog has the mental or physical capacity to be good.

For instance, many dogs "fail" going through seeing-eye dog school, even when that is specifically what they were bred to do, and prepared for their entire lives.

However, dogs can be trained to do things not typically associated with their breed. there are Schutzhund titled Jack Russels, Search and Rescue pitbulls...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it depends on the dog. Every dog deserves a chance, so take yours to a class or two, he might just surprise you.
 
Discussion starter · #79 ·
Cuppycake said:
I'm not sure you can teach ANY dog for protection work.
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Agreed.

My first Boxer Ootis was a complete handful when he was a puppy so we got him into puppy classes right away. Then he went into “regular” classes. He took to it OK but saying he had a mind of his own is an understatement. Our trainer suggested that we enroll him in the “defense” classes that she offered because the structure would do him some good. My wife spent about a year doing defense training and yes he was fantastic compared to a non trained dog he was certainly not a “defense dog”. His attitude was along the lines of “Fine, I’ll bite the guy in the stupid suit again if I have to”…….and then would want to go play chase with the other dogs. Not a complete failure, but by no means was he getting any medals.

Now our second Boxer Chuie (think Star Wars) that we got a year later took to puppy training like he already did it, went through “regular” classes as if he was bored and did a little defense training and took to that like it was his new job. I’m sure if we wanted to stick with it he would have been jumping out of airplanes and storming enemy compounds…….and then playing chase.

Two different dogs, both boxers, brought up in an identical environment but two completely different outcomes.
 
#80 ·
Kingfish said:
There are some dogs that are worthless but not many. Our Little Bichons for instance swim and fetch and Fisher even brings ducks in . But those little guys are best at entertaining children. Pets are essential in keeping little kids from losing it in terrible situations. THE STRONGEST SURVIVING IS FOR US MEN TO HANDLE. Little kids and some women will need a lap dog just to get them through the times. Our Bichons are great little watch dogs with tremendous vision and hearing. I always know when someone is here cause Dazee starts barking . she hears what I dont. There are so many things dogs and cats will be good for. I just dont see them as worthless. I have owned dogs that were pretty worthless. I had a springer that wouldnt hunt, a beagle that always ran off for days until he got shot. Over the last 10 years our Bichons have made us over $50,000.00 from sale of pups. Our Male Fisher Price is 9 years old and we just got him fixed. He sired well over 100 pups. Dog money bought a lot of survival gear.

What I do see is that anyone not prepared for themselves will also not be prepared for their animals. Like the guy who raises 50 rabbits and depends on the feed mill for pellets to feed them. Or the guy who buys hay to feed his two horses and cow but has no feed source of his own. The same goes for dogs and cats. How WILL you feed them and have you planned this into your situation? I bought several meat grinders and a good bone meal grinder for turning bones of all type into meal. Deer bones, rabbit, squirrel, fish, goose etc. Lots of stuff to feed the dogs around here. Kingfish
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I agree with you, the number isn't very high. But, I'd wager that a lot of the ones that end up being the most useless are the ones who have lived almost their entire existence in a pet carrier or small apartment in the big city. The issue is, would they survive a SHTF or would they end up being a huge liability. I'm sorry, but a small citified chihuahua who's been pampered and spoiled and dressed in princess outfits isn't going to survive 5 minutes in the country with the coyotes. The house cats that have been declawed by their owners and litterbox trained will become prey to barn cats who have had to rough it their whole lives.

What do these pets bring to the situation that is worth anything? How do they earn their keep as an extra mouth to feed? Can they rat? Can they protect the livestock, the property? Can they attack a target before they, themselves, are killed due to their inept skills? I just can't see how they can do anything other than take up space, eat food, and be a general pain in the a**. I'm referring the overbred, pampered varieties.

I applaud all those who are planning for their pets while remaining realistic about the very real possibility that they might not make it. Or that they might not be practical. And the ones who have made sure theirs actually have some useful skills. It's the ones who don't do those things that I'm weary of.
 
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