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First 24H what do you think it will look like around you?

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#61 ·
First 24 hrs:

We had a non EMP/life-threatening situation with the derecho of August 2020 here in Midwest Iowa. Lost power around noon-1:00pm, and the storm rolled through and it wasn't coming back on any time soon, which meant short-term solutions for no power.

Our first order of business was spending a few hours clearing the road and our driveway, we were 38 weeks pregnant at the time so had to be able to get to the hospital. Was woefully unprepared, had no backup generator or anything so we kept our fridge and freezer closed, knowing they would be good for 12-24 hours. We grabbed a few quick things and cooked on the propane outside, and then headed to early bed as there was nothing to be awake for.

Luckily we still had water, so all sinks and toilets still worked, so we kept using those as normal.

Knowing what I know now, and what I have now, would have gotten the backup generator out and fired it up for keeping the deep freezes and fridge going, and then grabbed the solar generator for some power for cell phones and tablets for the wife and kids.

Next order of business for short-term would be comfort. Nowadays, with a 2.5 year old and a newborn, in the summer without A/C, or the winter without heat, we would be hot for sure, so would like to look at portable A/C or heater to keep the family comfortable and spirits up.
 
#62 ·
nclear97 said:
Like to pick your alls minds and tell me in SHTF what do you think it will be like in the first 24 hours? I'll give a likely scenario that EMP shuts down the grid it's Tuesday at 13:00 hrs central time.
Click to expand...
Should an EMP event take out the power grid it would be strong enough to shut down every vehicle. Hospitals full of the dying, no EMS, police, 911 service, no food or fuel sales or replacements, stored water supplies may last 24 hours but without operating pumps water supplies are at an end. No communications, radios, phones, internet.
Everything in our world is tied to electrical service at some point in the supply chain.
 
#63 ·
At lot is going to depend on the factoids... My initial generic "guideline", DO NOT attract attention. I would shut down even our solar motion sensor lights... Leave the alarms that notify us inside of someone entering, but not have outside lights popping on that might have people thinking what else is still working...

We're in Tucson. An electrical outage means fresh water goes away "pronto". Our water flows from pressurized tanks, not from high up tanks by gravity. Think "three days without water", then what happens? If the scenario is an EMP, it is likely there is NOT going to be help coming in from anywhere.... Your community is own its own...

Likewise sewage pumping stops, I'm sure there are going to be those who waste water flushing a toilet, and then continue to use a toilet that cannot be flushed. Have an alternative. Example, a handicap toilet chair with plastic bag lined five gallon buckets, and soil, sawdust, etc. for coverage after each use.

In the summer, with 100F+ temperatures, folks are going to get thirsty in a very short time. I'd suspect that most have a case or so of plastic bottle water at home... Such will not "last long". They've not going to care that the electronic checkouts at stores are not working...

In the summer most structures here are not habitable without electric air conditioning... they become solar ovens...

Just musing...

Intel, what's around you.

Google or other overhead images, we're got them for one mile "radius" around home. Our property tax authority has some good resolution views looking down at an angle to locations, in essence allowing a picture of "behind" what you can see from your location. (Yes, they may be dated images, but they can give an idea.) Here they can be printed in quality color, 11x17 paper, at ten cents per page.

Local criminal database, what tends to happen around you. "Sex offender" database.

If surrounded by individual homes, either county recorder or assessor database should indicate owner, and whether owner lives at the location.

Do any locations have a pool? With water shut off folks with a known pool are going to attract attention.

Spouse & I retired. Thankfully the kids live & work within walking distance of their home & us.

Find "like minded" friends in the area, and cultivate working with them. Ham & GMRS radio's, as well as a laptop and external loaded up data drive stored in "faraday cage".

Bicycles for all.

Getting into $$$$$, night vision?
 
#64 ·
If at work, and the ute is dead, grab the GHB, untie the pushbike from the back and set off for the 2 hour ride home. Pull out the portable AM/FM radio and try to tune a station and get some news. Once home, make sure the rest of the troops are home, if not, work out a plan to get them from wherever they are, town etc. That may entitle changing the ignition module in the farm ute and driving to get them. They all know where they are to go in case of an emergency, so a 130 km round trip to town will see us all safe. Next, check the solar and battery's are all on line and connect the aerials back up to the ham gear and put out a call. Start gathering intel as to whats happening, and be ready to share it with others. Enact our EMP plan, get out some weapons and nite vision gear and be ready for intruders. Have a good meal, and observe and act on the intel you are gathering, in real time. Be ready to change your plan at any moment.
 
#65 ·
Several years ago we had a state-wide blackout for 24 hours or more, depending on where you lived. Locally, people/neighbours kept in touch as best they could, just wondering what had caused the blackout and wondering when power would come back on. Some further out areas were without power for 2 or 3 days. I don't remember any panic or riots or looting. Some of those without power for more than 24 hours, especially businesses, were getting quite annoyed with the delay in reconnection.

So, in the first 24 hours, I don't think much would change here. When people realized that there was a serious emergency, there would be a rush to stock up and probably some panic. Most grocery stores around here have back-up generators, so unless they'd been knocked out by an EMP, they should be able to carry on business for a while, at least with cash.

I have enough to keep me going for at least 3 months and more if the garden and chickens are unaffected. I'm within walking distance of my 2 sisters and families. One sister is older and lives in a one bedroom unit. I'd probably have to bring her here to stay with me and persuade her to change her diet if she wanted to continue eating. The other sister and family are prepared as well as I am. I might have to call on their strong men to do any heavy work.
 
#66 ·
With our own water supply (rain from header tanks pumped up with solar when the batterys are full), sewage disposal (seep away septic), several solar systems and backup gear, extensive gardens, 60 odd Km from town over 2 mountain ranges, and have equipment to defend ourselves (firearms and ammo), all should be well for several months. Enough fuel for several years of running the tractor cultivator etc, ham comms for intel gathering, satelite internet (if its still working), and recently night vision thermal gear (we now own the night as well), sheep, chooks, ducks, cows, bees, rabbits, etc, bring it on !
 
#67 ·
Rosebud said:
....When people realized that there was a serious emergency, there would be a rush to stock up and probably some panic. Most grocery stores around here have back-up generators, so unless they'd been knocked out by an EMP, they should be able to carry on business for a while, at least with cash...
Click to expand...
That's one of the variables, of innumerable.

"When people realize" whatever occurred/is occurring moves from a mundane inconvenience, to "a serious emergency".

Then to ad to such, is there ongoing "news" of "whatever" readily available.

Or perhaps news just prior to "whatever", either in brief or extended over time.

Oversimplified examples: complete & immediate infrastructure outage. No news.

Complete & immediate infrastructure outage, following a severe storm widely broadcast.

Complete & immediate infrastructure outage, following one or more nuclear attacks. Domestic or overseas, but widely broadcast. The 24hr local reaction would be vastly different if the broadcasts were extended over time, vs just a few minutes prior to a local infrastructure outage...IMO.
 
#69 ·
I have so many questions. Does the EMP take out the whole grid, not just a section of it? Oookay... So then do all of us who are off grid lose everything too? All cars shut down, planes fall out of the sky, nuclear power plants overheat and explode, all Las Vegas one armed bandits go dark? Winter or summer? Did we have any warning? How much?

It's an almost impossible question to answer without more information.
 
#70 ·
The Southwest blackout of 2011 was very interesting:
  • a co-worker within the first hour went to Home Depot and bought a generator (and returned it when it was over) -- great move, know what to do immediately
  • most traffic signals were out -- either take the freeway or the back roads to get home
  • most of the open stores (some were mostly dark but open, bring your own flashlight) went OOS of flashlights and batteries immediately, don't know if they accepted cash and/or CC, just watching the herd
  • all normal otherwise (going without power is easy)

If there was an EMP in my suburban area, every neighbor would be in the front yards speculating on what was happening and what to do.
OPSEC is critical here and I can play like I'm poor (as many Asians do, LOL).
 
#71 ·
OK, Electrical Engineer talk here.

The entire country wide grid probably wont collapse in one go. The parts near the EMP event will go first, putting extra load on the rest of it. As other parts are overloaded and fail, more will drop off until its all down. Thats not the biggest issue.

Once its all down, a black start is not easy. First, a diesel generator has to be started, then coupled to a turbine to spin it up, this is then used to start a bigger turbine, and so on. Then comes the synchronization of other turbines/generators. If the high tension distribution network is down, someone will need to go around and manually isolate the various inter-connectors to enable the parrallelng of generators to allow bigger turbines to start etc. Eventually, there is enough rotating mass and energy in the system to start re-energizing parts of the grid, probably hospitals, communications centers etc first, then last will be residential customers.

All the above assumes the control equipment is still operational and not damaged by the pulse. Bear in mind all of it is based on electronics that will be fried, along with your car, modern generator, solar system etc. Back to the stone age people.

I don't think all the system will be damaged beyond repair, but a typical HV transformer can take 2 years from order to delivery in normal times, urgent delivery for dozens of them and that time could well blow out to many years.

Our personal solar power systems will probably survive, as long as we are not in line of sight of the nuke blast. That alone should be a good enough reason to get out of a major population center, or nuke target such as a Naval base etc.

Long term society will recover, but it certainly wont be the same.
 
#72 · (Edited)
nclear97 said:
Like to pick your alls minds and tell me in SHTF what do you think it will be like in the first 24 hours? I'll give a likely scenario that EMP shuts down the grid it's Tuesday at 13:00 hrs central time.

Feel this might help give anyone a run down or to prep for things they might not have thought of.

My area is Southwest Texas I have wind turbines and cotton fields near me 17 miles from work to home and have 4 ways I can take.

Feel getting home is most important. Vehicle work? Not sure? Can you walk or have a backup? I could walk but been looking at getting a mountain bike for the truck.

I think around me it's going to be more what's going on for the first 24 hrs yes crime but I don't feel it's going to be gun fights and Mad Max in Rural Texas by that time maybe a week or two?

Now the cities might be different even here in Texas as two years ago people in large cities here in Texas did not even have three days of food at home and crying about it! Yet County people who don't have a grocery store every mile do not have problems?
Click to expand...
I can't speak for the future but only what I've lived through.

In NY there was a massive blackout around 2003 that took out most of the eastern seaboard and into canada. We were without electric for about 18 hours. It was life as normal without the creature comforts.

The other time I lived through a natural disaster, cat 5 hurricane and except for the usual suspects in the usual spots in the stores that had been blown open from wind, there was nothing much going on. There were plenty of signs like shoot first, shoot second, ask questions 3rd. Step on my property at your own risk.... And this place looked like a war zone, but there was nothing like what you worry about.

There's no evidence a car would have any problems with an EMP, as it seems to have a fariday cage built around the electronics... now a car connected to the grid charging at the time of an EMP might be a different story.

www.lifewire.com

Would Your Car Survive An EMP Attack?

Conventional wisdom states that only older vehicles would survive an EMP attack, but could your late model car or truck also be safe?
www.lifewire.com www.lifewire.com

"The study subjected vehicles to simulated EMP attacks both while shut off and while running, and it found that none of the vehicles suffered any ill effects if the attack occurred while the engine was off. When the attack occurred while the vehicles were running, some of them shut off, while others suffered other effects like erroneously blinking dash lights.

Another factor that may help protect the electronics in a car is that the metal body of the vehicle can act as a partial Faraday cage. This is why you can survive your vehicle being struck by lightning, and it’s also why car radio antennas are located outside, rather than inside, the vehicle. "
 
#73 ·
A lot of modern vehicles are made of composite materials, not metal, and Ive seen some vids (will try and find them), of these being subject to a lightning pulse and bursting into flame.

If u are caught up in an EMP and your vehicle dies, turn the key fully off, wait a few minutes for any residual charge to dissipate and try to restart. If it doesn't, then turn it off again and disconnect the battery for a few minutes. This should reset the computer. try again to start.

Its not much use carrying a spare computer module either as most modern cars he computer is coded to that car. besides, do you know where the main module is, or indeed how many there are. And what about the squillions of sensors on the gearbox, engine, seats etc that also are probably U/S ?

When I was working, I carried a spare ignition module for my old ute wrapped in multiple layers of foil, and whats more, knew where it was (in the distributor) and how to change it (3 minutes work with a small screwdriver). No computer in a 40 year old Triton ute. I had also modified the front of the radiator and timing pulley to fit a crank handle, and it worked remarkably well. I only needed to use it in earnest once when I left the lights on and the battery went almost flat, but that was worth every cent.




Every gun owner should have a 12 gauge in their gun cabinet right next to their 22 rifle.
 
#75 ·
D Powell said:
Every gun owner should have a 12 gauge in their gun cabinet right next to their 22 rifle.
Click to expand...
How many all day classes with a quality instructor have you been to with your 12 gauge? Shotguns are great but definitely one of the more difficult guns to be able to run hard proficiently. Once you get some training you realize very quickly there is a lot to keeping one running when engaging multiple targets and understanding the dramatic range limitations. Better than you'd think but worse than you wish. Spoiler alert, Federal flight control performs about 10x better than its nearest competitor.

As far as what to expect in the first 24H depends on the disaster. Assuming it is more than something commonplace like regional storm damage, let's say it's an EMP which is pretty worse case for most scenarios you can dream up then I think the first 24H in my neighborhood would be one of organizing people and marshalling resources.

When I moved into my newly built neighborhood I got the phone number of every man I met. Every month for the past 18 months I've gotten all those men together to drink bourbon and smoke cigars in my driveway. This has created a very healthy community where people know each other by name and aren't just strangers waving to each other as they drive by. This has also caused people to look to me for leadership, they jokingly call me the "mayor" of the neighborhood.

I don't crave this or think it makes me special in any way but I saw a vacuum in leadership and stepped into it. I spend my time listening to hear if anyone in the neighborhood needs anything and then try to find ways to connect them to people that can help them or help them myself whether that is mowing their lawn when they are out of town or lending them my truck to pick up bulky items.

Many preppers are anti-social or want to jump to "Hey do you want to be part of my MAG?" as soon as they meet someone. Put in the work developing relationships and you will learn the capabilities of the people around you (I for example know everyone in my vicinity that is ex-military, current firefighters, canners, etc.) and have the have built the trust needed to jump into action together in an emergency.
 
#77 ·
"How many all day classes with a quality instructor have you been to with your 12 gauge? "

Practice, that's why we have our own range here on the farm, and the neighbors all know how to handle firearms as well.




For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
 
#78 ·
I have to wonder; my earlier post notwithstanding:
Will everyone KNOW it’s an EMP/Permanent situation?
Half my county lost power due to a storm a few hours ago…prob be out all night…Affected some friends, they called a few ago to see if we are out-we aren’t-
They’re all outside in lawn chairs listening to the rain frogs and enjoying the evening…about to fire up the grill and cook some meat, maybe have a bonfire for the kids.,,
Knowing IF the lights are coming back on makes a major diff in reactions..
 
#79 ·
nclear97 said:
Like to pick your alls minds and tell me in SHTF what do you think it will be like in the first 24 hours? I'll give a likely scenario that EMP shuts down the grid it's Tuesday at 13:00 hrs central time.

Feel this might help give anyone a run down or to prep for things they might not have thought of.
Click to expand...

Many won't figure it out or comprehend it at first, the smart ones will raid the stores close to them, there may be some LEO active and even aid?
  • The first 24 hours is the "golden hour" Things will be relatively safe, perhaps almost normal.
  • The average home has less than a week of food some people eat out every day and have basically no food most won't panic about missing a meal or two.
  • Food won't be the biggest problem to start with, it will be in this order; Loss of safe clean water, all sanitation systems stop, and simple things that kept bacteria at bay like chlorinated tap water showers, and clean clothes will stop. People will have to relieve themselves outside and most don't know how to do it without creating a problem attracting flies. Depending on the time of the year the manifestations of the disease will start to show in a week+

Make sure you have a sanitation plan. In an area where the water access could be curtailed paper plates and plastic utensils. Shelf-stable hard surface sanitizers powdered pool shock works well. Portable outdoor or composting toilet, pest control fly strips, rat poison,


If you ask me it won't be a quick flip of the switch like EMP; it will be a slow descent almost imperceptible until you think back 5 or 10 years incrementally worse day by day, week by week, or month by month slow enough you might think things are normal, we are already in it.
Go out and get some more food, and other backup supplies, you'll need them soon enough.
 
#80 ·
"Knowing IF the lights are coming back on makes a major diff in reactions.. "

Knowing if...is intel gathering. So important after an event. Ham radio can be relied upon to get the big picture. Even just listening to short wave, or the AM band with a decent receiver can reveal if the whole country is dark, or can u hear the 100kw station in the next state ? If you can, then its only 'local', if not, what can you hear ? Are there any interstate hams or other countries communicating ? Can you hear radio New Zealand, do you even know when you are supposed to be able to hear Radio New Zealand anyway ? Get acquainted with the propagation conditions, so WTSHTF you know what to expect. There is no excuse for not knowing this stuff, its published everywhere, path lengths, propagation predictions and so on. Get knowledgeable, now, before you need it.

Its no good rolling out the fire hose and discovering its rotten when a bush fire is coming at you, the very essence of prepping is preparing, its not a game people. Treat it as such and you will die, simple as that. get serious.

Dont rely on George next door who is a clairvoyant, get yourself prepped to be in charge of your fate. You are responsible for your own and those depending on you to survive. At the end you must be able to say, truthfully, I tried

And hand in hand with that goes the actual prepping. What to prep for. Some things are totally out of your control, tsunami, earthquakes, floods. But you can mitigate these effects with choosing of a suitable location. Some things we can prep for, bush-fires, civil unrest, economic collapse and the like. And we should prepare for these events. Can we prep for a grid down situation, for 72 hours, easy, what about a country wide senerio ? Worldwide. ? An EMP from a nuke exchange probably wont immediately affect everyone at the same time, eventually though, radiation will get us. Apart from a well stocked underground bunker, most of us cant prep for such an exchange. We can prep for the effects of it, the main one being an EMP. A CME could be another event that can be prepped for. Have backups, and backups of backups.






My favorite conspiracy theory is that everything is gonna be all right...
 
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