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I went decades without firearms being part of my preps. Guns are a less easy thing for those of us living in Canuckistan than they are for those of you in 2nd Amendment land.

They had been part of my preps for years before I got my first armor; also a complicated thing for those living in Canuckistan... we cannot just go buy it in all provinces and different places have more or less hoops for one to leap through... I have a security license that allows me to own it, and a firearms one lets you (I think in all parts of Canada that have a requirement; it does in BC) as well. I am thereby double covered.

I am seriously looking into quality (but affordable...Canuckistani prices can be quite obscene) plates for my carriers once I get the property I am trying to get. It is the only hole in my protective equipment I have not filled (yet).
 
My chest rig weighs 45lbs pounds with 4 AR500 steel plates & x10 30rd mags. All that weight rests on the 2" shoulder straps.
If I had to walk wearing it Id remove all but the front plate. Its heavy dead weight, then add your weapons & backpack or other gear & you're probably going to be a heat casualty in no time.

I'll use the below rig for holding down the fort or while driving through Chicago.


If I had to do it again I'd buy the thinnest soft concealable armor. AR500 used to sell a hybrid soft 3A armor that was 1/4" thick. They dont currently list it.
80% of gunshot wounds are from a pistol.

Having this armor gives me piece of mind. That makes it worth it for me.

View attachment 427743
Why 4 steel plates instead of 2 ?
 
Body armor will greatly enhance your chances of survival, IMO. At the very minimum it will prolong your survival. If it gets to that point there wont be 9-1-1 or medivacs coming to save anyone. Best to protect those vitals. and reduce the chance of add more orifices' to your body

I don't run a ballistic helmet because a rifle will tear right through it. As for plates, the weight sucks but they will absolutely save your life just train in them and get use to the weight, heck even get a weighted vest from the local Walmart condition your body to carry more weight than your torso. That way when the need arises you wont be in compete shock.
 
AR500 steel plates are good if you don’t plan on wearing or training in it much; seriously, it sucks. The only reason I would consider getting a set is to leave in my truck for those chances I may have to drive through a hostile area and take fire…

Much of your choice comes to your personal requirements. I won’t be wearing level IV plates while out cutting the grass or working in the garden; I won’t be earing plates even doing recce patrols. Have you considered your threat assessment levels? If I’m seeing an uptick in activity or an active threat, I’ll be defending with armor, but until then, the risk isn’t worth the weight…my situation.

Many think SHTF/WROL will be a flip of the switch; I seriously don’t that’s the way it’s going to go. The need for armor will be on a spectrum. For that in-between area where crime is picking up, law enforcement presence is dwindling and the threat assessment is rising, BUT, I’m still working and getting fuel, or shopping in a store, I may don a lower profile system. I have some Level IIIA composite plates that are thin, very light (1.5lbs per plate), and stab-proof. It’s only rated for pistol calibers, but that is the highest threat for that in-between time. This is also a good purpose for soft/concealable armor.

I have two sets of Level III+ plates for direct action or active defense (one is a full kit, the other is a slick carrier). I train in them, but if you haven’t done training with that extra 15-30 pounds of kit, go slow and start working out!

My FAST helmet is much like my plate carriers. I don’t see myself wearing it unless it’s an active defense situation at home, I’m doing mobile operations, or some type of direct action/ambush on a verified threat. It’s actually better as a “bump helmet” to protect your noggin from knocks inside a vehicle.

If you're serious about a plate carrier, wear it as much as you can around the house. You'll look like a "LARPER", but it will help your body adjust to the added weight, and impacts to mobility. As mentioned, so some training with it as well. If the SHTF/WROL, you're going to have a harder time going from nothing to that added weight and if the system is uncomfortable or too heavy, you won't be using it before or after the SHTF.

ROCK6
 
Body armor will greatly enhance your chances of survival, IMO. At the very minimum it will prolong your survival. If it gets to that point there wont be 9-1-1 or medivacs coming to save anyone. Best to protect those vitals. and reduce the chance of add more orifices' to your body

I don't run a ballistic helmet because a rifle will tear right through it. As for plates, the weight sucks but they will absolutely save your life just train in them and get use to the weight, heck even get a weighted vest from the local Walmart condition your body to carry more weight than your torso. That way when the need arises you wont be in compete shock.
273,

Much depends on one's environment and situation.

The helmet/hard hat is what also has the face shields for a few different situations. Respiration must also be considered as something to protect.

Think this out.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
I served in Mosul Iraq 2007 to 2008. We all wore body armor outside the wire: front plate, back plate, side plates and carrier. 14 years later, I'm 58 years old. Can I still carry a 50 pound kit, move fast and fight? Probably not very well.

For me, I'd opt for no armor except maybe a Kevlar helmet.
Yeah, but isn't this also an argument for getting a lighter soft armor vest. I read they usually are 3-9 pounds. Protection against handguns is still better than none.
A few of my thoughts on personal armor:

1) If you are going to get armor, do not skimp on it. It is used to protect you. Do you really want the cheap stuff?

2) Just like almost everything else prep-related, it is extremely unlikely you will know ahead of time when you will need armor unless you are already in a protected place. Therefore, during times when you might be at risk wear the armor.

3) As above, if you are at risk, how are you going to know if you might/will be shot with a small-caliber handgun, a powerful handgun, a magnum handgun, a shotgun, a small-caliber rifle, a large caliber rifle, a magnum rifle, shot with a regular arrow, shot with a broadhead arrow, shot with a crossbow bolt, hit with some type of bludgeon, stabbed with a small knife, stabbed with a large knife, stabbed with spike type instrument, have acid thrown on you, be targeted with a flame thrower, or one of many more types of attacks? Will it be at contact range, short-range, medium-range, or long-range?

Many of that list are highly unlikely, but some of them, if you are attacked, are very likely to be used. Sometimes in combination, especially if there are other people. A few of the weapons listed standard types of armor are not going to protect you at all. For the rest, the probability of injury, type of injury, and severity of injury are going to be dependent on the particular weapon, the range, the type of armor, the rating of the armor, and the completeness of the armor.

So, if you do not know if it will be a handgun, and there is a high likelihood it could be a rifle, then it seems to me that having quality armor that will help protect one against rifle rounds, including armor-piercing rounds, is the most logical choice.

4) However, as was stated by others, body armor does not do much to protect you against shots that impact outside the area of the armor coverage, intentionally or by accident. With that being the fact, it would seem that having at least armor protection for the head would also be logical. Armor for the groin falls into the same category. Shots to the groin and head can be fatal. Less so the shoulders, arms, legs below the upper thigh, and feet. They can be fatal, of course, due to circumstances and complications of the wound.

While I do not know of any civilian available armor for the head capable of stopping major caliber armor-piercing rounds, helmets are available in Level IIIA (be aware that Level IIA is less effective than Level II and Level IIIA is less effective than Level III). I am not sure if this includes helmet face shields, though it might.

Groin armor up to Level III is available. Level IV armor is pretty much restricted to the chest, upper back, and the sides of the torso. The standard thinking about body armor, by the DIJ, military, and law enforcement is that rounds taken outside of the areas that can be protected by Level IV armor, other than the head, are less life-threatening and can be treated by modern medical procedures applied quickly after the injury takes place.

For preppers, this scenario is not that likely. If a person is shot outside the coverage of the Level IV plates, if they are being worn, the likelihood dying can be very high.

What this means to me is that the maximum amount of protection is needed, if any is needed at all. This includes helmets with face shields with the maximum protection available to civilian versions of head protection. Also, groin protection, and if the armor manufacturer offers it, upper thigh protection to protect the large artery in the thighs.

5) Due to the limitations of the standard body armor systems, having additional protecten to enhance those systems, plus help protect areas not otherwise protected, the use of ancillary armor devices can be used. Police/military ‘riot’ shields, up to higher levels of protection available in some of the military shields designed for actual protection from firearms.

There are also the riot armor the police use that do not provide all that much protection from firearms, but do protect against blows from various types of weapons, and attacks with various types of bladed weapons.

Now, if a person is equipped with all of this gear, for maximum protection, she/he is not going to be very agile. Plus, when this amount of armor is being worn it is almost always worn when there are other officers in the same gear, all protecting each other against the dangers that a lone person is subject in the gear.

6) Therefore, which armor a prepper chooses to obtain must be chosen in light of the above factors. With the first three of prime importance. Get the best armor you can, against as many threats as possible, and wear it whenever you are not otherwise protected.

7) Now, if there are others in a group that might be exposed to the same threats, armor for them must be considered. With budget limitations it could come down to protecting them at one’s own risk, or the primary defender in armor to try and defeat any attackers, thereby preventing harm to the others. Hard choices.

8) Since the armor might need to be worn in warm to hot conditions, which can cause heat-related injuries to the wearer, consideration for wearing cooling vests and other devices under the armor need to be considered.

9) As stated by another poster, consideration must be given to the psychological effect of making the wearer feel invincible, therefore willing to take risks far above what is reasonable, considering the actual amount of protection offered by the armor being worn. There was an episode of the Barney Miller television show in which the officers were issued body armor. In this episode, one of the officers decided to not wear it after the first time because he felt that invincibility and it caused him to take risks that were ill-advised.

I do not think that a decision to not wear armor should be based on that possibility. Better, I think, to be aware of the possibility, even to the point of having something with the armor when not worn that states that the wearer should be aware of the possibility and make sure they do not fall under that mistaken idea.

10) How the choice of obtaining armor can affect the prepper are dependent on the financial status of the prepper, the particulars of the individual prepper and any family members or group members, the ability of the person of actually being able to wear the armor and still be effective mentally and physically, and the likelihood of a person needing to wear armor considering their location and other specifics of how they prep.

Personally, if I could afford it, I would have Level IV body armor for every part of my person for which it is available; head protection at the maximum level it is available to civilians; plus some type of armor for the rest of my body, though probably not full riot gear armor. More likely something along the lines of sports armor, paint gun event armor, or DIY armor as often used by reenactors or LARP enthusiasts.


As to the best suppliers, I am not willing to offer any suggestions for liability reasons. Armor, like many other subjects, must be chosen by the person involved after doing extensive due diligence research and in consideration of not only their budget but their mental stress levels that could be affected, as well as any family or members of a group.

Just my opinion.
I agree that I don't want to go cheap here. That's why I'd like to identify quality brands. I have zero idea which are which. I don't think I have the money currently to get body armor for every body part, but I think a basic vest/plate carrier and then later a ballistic helmet are realistic goals.
Hello, regarding the post above I think if you’re wanting to get body armor definitely do your research on what would better suit your body (i.e.) steel or sapi type plates. After a while the weight will start to make a huge difference especially if you’re running front, back and side plates. I run all sapi plates with being mil, and recently bought ar500 front and back plates for personal use and the weight of the steel was definitely more noticeable even compared to running all 4 of the sapi plates at once on my work plate carrier. However I do believe in going big or going home on getting armor as what you pay for is essentially what your life is worth to you. Also if your dipping into get body armor your head is just important and you might as well invest in a good ACH. Personally the only time I’ll be running my plates on the civ side of things is if SHTF hard and I’m 100% expecting to get into a gun fight or expecting one to come to me while defending myself. It’s all preference and hopefully no one here will ever have to have theirs tested out! Good luck!
I'll need to research the sapi versus steel plates.
My chest rig weighs 45lbs pounds with 4 AR500 steel plates & x10 30rd mags. All that weight rests on the 2" shoulder straps.
If I had to walk wearing it Id remove all but the front plate. Its heavy dead weight, then add your weapons & backpack or other gear & you're probably going to be a heat casualty in no time.

I'll use the below rig for holding down the fort or while driving through Chicago.


If I had to do it again I'd buy the thinnest soft concealable armor. AR500 used to sell a hybrid soft 3A armor that was 1/4" thick. They dont currently list it.
80% of gunshot wounds are from a pistol.

Having this armor gives me piece of mind. That makes it worth it for me.

View attachment 427743
That's what I'm thinking. Get quality soft body armor that is concealable, and know that it will only protect against handgun and maybe shotgun rounds. Lighter and far better for being mobile if bugging out. As my mom would say, "some is better than none."
 
Why 4 steel plates instead of 2 ?
He's including the side plates. I did remove the back plate on mine right off the bat and have it set aside for only defensive situations. At age 55 with a full load out and the weight of full plate carrier, I'm not going to get very far if I'm in a run and gun scenario. I'll be laying on the ground begging to be put out of my misery. lol
 
Body armor will greatly enhance your chances of survival, IMO. At the very minimum it will prolong your survival. If it gets to that point there wont be 9-1-1 or medivacs coming to save anyone. Best to protect those vitals. and reduce the chance of add more orifices' to your body

I don't run a ballistic helmet because a rifle will tear right through it. As for plates, the weight sucks but they will absolutely save your life just train in them and get use to the weight, heck even get a weighted vest from the local Walmart condition your body to carry more weight than your torso. That way when the need arises you wont be in compete shock.
That's exactly opposite from my opinions.

Plate carriers only protect the vital organs and keep you in the fight longer, hopefully as a medic is keeping you in the fight as well. Still plenty of spots to get a hole punched. These aren't full body armor and even then, full body armor just kept you in the fight even longer, hopefully.

As for a helmet, I still use one on night walks around the desert. I don't even care if it stops a round or not. It's the mounts/rails and protecting me from bumps that I care about.. At 6'4" I have many left over lumps from previous head injuries,
 
I agree with you opinion on the helmet to an extent if you are not worried about the ballistic protection what not just get a bump helmet? They are far cheaper and will accomplish the same.

As far as armor. well have to agree to disagree. Armor will completely stop multiple bullets and to you point of keeping you in the fight longer isn't that entire point of the armor or even prepping? to keep you in the "fight" or alive longer? Plenty of guys I know have take rounds in the plates and lived to fight an other day, in fact have lived years after. Seen a guy take 3 AK rounds center mass and 1 in the leg, from about 15 feet he's still walking and talking, today with a cool story to tell. So I agree it kept him in the fight longer, BG that took those 4 shots is no longer in the fight.

I respect you opinion just don't share it. TETO
 
Think this out.
I have thought it out, a helmet is not the only way to filter air or cover you face for starters. Im not saying anything bad about helmets, Im speaking very specifically to ballistic helmets. They are heavier and far more expensive. If your worried about bumping your head mounting a light face shield respirator etc. you don't need a $1000 ballistic helmet. there are other options.
 
I respect you opinion just don't share it. TETO
I'm not saying don't get a plate carrier. As my post above that one alluded to, I have one but there's definitely a weight/mobility trade off you have to weigh against benefits and situations. And yes, I know a couple of guys with really cool stories afterwards. Yes, it ups your chances of survival, but you will most likely get an extended stay at a medical facility with any real prolonged fight. But on that note there's some stories would make you wear a kevlar helmet all the time.

As a 55 yr old out of prime guy that weight/mobility vs benefits is a huge factor.
 
As for the helmet you can pick up cheap iiia's FAST helmets with mounts and rails for 50 dollars more than a bump helmet which don't weigh much more. I would actually consider them more bump than ballistic. Most tactical bump helmets are for the airsoft crowd and don't come in XXL shell, so I had no choice.

Yes, I didn't realize you were refering to full kevlar ballistic helmets in particular. But even then you can pick up surplus ACH's for $200 if that's your thing.
 
Swen, you can pick up surplus but I wouldn't trust it. who knows where is been how its been treated. same for used plates. I'd buy used steel plates. not ceramic/composite.

Im not 55 YET...… but I certainly understand aging and decreased mobility due to it. mostly just aches and minor stiffness hear and there, from time to time for me. Perhaps one day ill shar that view, I just know that no matter what I prep for I wont be prepared. and will have to venture out into the world to get one thing or another. In that process I'd prefer to up my chances of making it home be it with meds or food.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
While people are making strong points about the weight of full body armor, I think this doesn't really put aside soft armor or some armor. Those can weigh 5 pounds from what I'm reading. Added to firearms and a bug out bag let's say, yes it is additive. But, soft armor may not be substantially additive.

I hike every week, beyond going to the gym 2 times per week. I aim for the most rigorous hikes I can find with mountains or steep hills, not flat land. I also bring a pack often not only to have water and snacks, sometimes things like a jacket, but also to add some weight so I'm in some kind of packing shape. Probably my normal hiking pack weighs more than some soft body armor.
 
Soft armor certain has its place and is worth having. its is strictly dependent on your expected threats in your AO. I think moving around in a city/urban setting soft armor would be beneficial. Hand guns and shot guns IMO are most prevalent. I think when the initial looting and pillaging subsides and people stop grabbing tvs and x boxes and start looking for food, water and medical supplies. once the stores are emptied is where plat armor would come in, actually just before that, when people begin to realize whats happening and its not gonna get better.

For instance...… Id wear LVL2/3 soft armor under a shirt and conceal a pistol and carry a bag. The whole gray man thing once the shooting turns up and people are becoming belligerent, shooting each other in parking lots of cheeze its, that's when Id hunker down and break out the plate armor. because that's, IMO, when people will began breaking out higher caliber weapons.

People will be looking for items on shelves, its when the shelves go bare the real crazy will start and that's when hard plates will come in.
 
I see 4 likely use cases for hard armor.

1. I’m walking through a mob, likely to get to my vehicle or home. . The hard armor and helmet protect me from being shot , and also offer some defense against stabbing and blows from fists / blunt objects. Mobs don’t go on for ever. So this is a short trip, and I will be able to handle the weight

2. I’m driving in a dangerous area , through a mob or where shots being fired are likely. Again I’m-driving so the weight and bulk of an issue but not the same as humping it on foot.

3. I am taking a rotation on watch or neighborhood patrol as part of a group to secure our area. This should not involve a long walk and shouldn’t be too long a shift.

4. Least likely for sure. I am part of a planned violent action, either for rescue or perhaps as a “posse“ to handle a violent threat to our community.
 
You must live in a really great neighborhood. a neighborhood where no one ever has to leave to resupply, where the cars never have to worry about traffic road blocks running out of gas, where you can trust that everyone has the integrity to maintain those late watches/patrol and where no one would dare attempt to infiltrate. Where can I get one and how much? You have a lot of faith in the loyalty of your neighbors.

I think roads and car travel have a high probability of cut out real quick. Look at the cyber attack on the eastern seaboard. No gas for anyone...that means everyone is walking and that was short lived not long term. I bet if/when SHTF a lot of travel will be on foot and eventually all travel.

Not trying to knock you thinking, I just think a lot of people need to think outside their comfort zones. You may not be able to stay in your neighborhood. Your neighbors may leave to be with family. when the case supply stops and grid goes down car travel will be hard to come by.

When you leave to resupply is the time id wear hard armor. I wouldn't walk through a mob to get to my vehicle, id find another way to get to my vehicle or home. body armor isn't gonna help in a mob they'll just tear it off you. walking in the open is another time Id opt for plates. soft armor isn't gonna stop the guy up the street, that you don't see at least if you take a hit in hard armor you can get up and get to some cover.

Just my .02
 
You must live in a really great neighborhood. a neighborhood where no one ever has to leave to resupply, where the cars never have to worry about traffic road blocks running out of gas, where you can trust that everyone has the integrity to maintain those late watches/patrol and where no one would dare attempt to infiltrate. Where can I get one and how much? You have a lot of faith in the loyalty of your neighbors.

I think roads and car travel have a high probability of cut out real quick. Look at the cyber attack on the eastern seaboard. No gas for anyone...that means everyone is walking and that was short lived not long term. I bet if/when SHTF a lot of travel will be on foot and eventually all travel.

Not trying to knock you thinking, I just think a lot of people need to think outside their comfort zones. You may not be able to stay in your neighborhood. Your neighbors may leave to be with family. when the case supply stops and grid goes down car travel will be hard to come by.

When you leave to resupply is the time id wear hard armor. I wouldn't walk through a mob to get to my vehicle, id find another way to get to my vehicle or home. body armor isn't gonna help in a mob they'll just tear it off you. walking in the open is another time Id opt for plates. soft armor isn't gonna stop the guy up the street, that you don't see at least if you take a hit in hard armor you can get up and get to some cover.

Just my .02
The last time we had armed patrols in our neighborhood was hurricane Harvey. I didn’t have plate at the time. Some people had body armor , soft or plate and they had it on when patrolling. We where not worried about snipers when “resupplying”. Although the stores where not allowing guns inside when they did open. I was trying to stay away from the stores at that time. Good place to get in trouble.

yea I guess IF a things got bad enough and we stick around instead of heading out tot he country, I could see a group of us wearing armor to go get fuel or supplies.

Most likely soft armor would be the right move. Most shootings are gonna be handgun shootings anyway , esp a robbery. Of stores are open having your vest concealed would be a big plus.

walking is so far down in my list after vehicles and bicycles , etc. it’s unlikely. I have fuel stored to get out of dodge. If the highways are clogged with stopped cars I’ll go around them. That’s why I have an off road vehicle and a wench / recovery tools. I can get out of the metro area with back roads / off road work arounds.
 
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