Would you help a stranger?

Anya said:

You live on a fairly large piece of land where you are able to farm just enough food for you and your family

Click to expand...

The situation becomes different depending on how much food you have. If you can spare the food it becomes a viable option. If you're slowly losing weight because you can only eat just enough then it isn't an option.

Secondly I'm not taking food out of my child's mouth to feed a stranger. If they're well fed and a little chubby we can talk about it.

I would never give shelter to a stranger though. Maybe if they were from this board I might consider it, but otherwise no. You're risking far too much.

One scenario ( Regardless of how unlikely it may appear ) is for a group to send in one person ( Maybe an attractive young woman? Pregnant mother? ) to gain the trust of the group and at nighttime they unlock the area and let the rest of the group in.

I try to be as charitable as I can during these relatively good days. Once SHTF charity will be a luxury I can't afford.

My reaction to a stranger could vary. If it were a elderly man, probably... a mother with children, maybe. Some mall ninja would more than likely be shot on sight. I would be on guard and unlikly to just help out anyone.

Depends on the person. If I thought I could trust them I would probably set up a tent outside somewhere and keep everything locked up at night. I wouldn't let them in until I was absolutely sure i could trust them.

I absolutely would. I'd take precautions of course. I'd have supplies under lock and key and the newcomers would be welcome to bunk in the barn. I wouldn't want to survive if i'd lost my humanity.

Anya said:

like food, water guns, etc.

Click to expand...

I'd spray them down with those water guns I stockpiled... HAHA! :

Seriously though... I would draw the line once helping someone else started to interfere with the supplies I NEED for my family. Otherwise, if I have plenty to go around, sure, I would be willing to share. Lets hope none of us ever have to experience a situation like that. If you told them no and they needed to move on, it would more than likely get ugly.

Most likely, yes. I'd imagine it would require an "interview process" of sorts, and there would be no freebies, they would have to earn their share. Helping out a good person isn't just the right thing to do, it could benefit you especially if they have skills you don't have. However if they're evil, that's a different story.

Ive thought about this a lot too. No is the answer Ive some up with. I would already be on such high alert, that if this person wondered past my "TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT" signs I would think they are crazy or desperate. Desperate people do crazy things to eat, like come back with others after you have sent them away, at night to attack you or steal your livestock chickens etc. If they gave me a creepy vibe or seemed threatening, I would shoot them, and then they would be dog food. Cabellas had a sale on a cool meat grinder that I bought, soooooo....

The answer from me is unequivocally no.

Old man, woman with child, I don't care. In a situation where 70-percent of the population of the world is gone, that means it's a war scenario. A situation where NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) warheads could be used means vast areas of land where food could be kept or grown are going to be contaminated, and thus lethal if consumed. Vast being because of the weather patterns that will carry the contamination whichever way the wind happens to be blowing.

Which means, in turn, a lack of food and habitable area will push people around or kill them. Lack of food and warmth means desperation. Desperate people will do anything to survive or keep their kids alive.

That means the old man or woman with her child might pull a gun on you, doing exactly the same thing you're trying to do---survive. You let your guard down and you're dead. Crack of a gunshot and you're brains are on the back wall while you lay their dead and your stuff is being taken by the person you got friendly with. Hell, a kid would pull a weapon on you if he/she wanted to. I know I would. Being a defender I would no doubt pull the trigger to defend me and mine.

Morals, right/wrong and all that **** just goes right out the window when you're looking down the barrel of a handgun. See, there's no way right now to tell if someone is good or bad. You have to take them by their word, and people lie. You simply can't trust anyone. Call it the thought-process of a heartless ass-hole, but do you want to be looking down the barrel of a gun or at knife-point because of your kindheartedness? The answer, again, is unequivocally no.

Never trust anyone in a SHTF scenario.

Plus, anyway. If you can live in a SHTF scenario then you learned what needed to be done to do so. There is absolutely no reason why another person couldn't do the same thing. I mean, it's not hard to hunt, it's not hard to fish or raise livestock or a garden. Y'know what I mean? If they can't learn then they ain't tried or don't want to. And the latter will get no sympathy from me. I'd be tellin' them they better step 'n fetch their asses on down the road.

Someone comes around, tell them no, if they don't leave then they have what is called: Acute Lead Deficiency. Better have a rifle or handgun to cure their little problem.

Not sure on this one. TBH I have helped people that I knew for years. They had 6 kids and were homeless after husband lost his job. They bought a caravan/trailer and were going to just live off the grid, travelling around Australia. Their vehicle lost the engine and needed some costly repairs. Said that they could stay in my home, until the vehicle was fixed. Shortly after that, things went downhill. They took advantage. Their kids would chase my animals with a stick or whack them with it. The parents looked the other way, knowing it was happening. When I brought it up, they didn't think it was an issue. They went through my things, when I wasn't home. The husband would try to make himself useful, by doing some much needed repairs around my home, but didn't think their was anything wrong with his kids ganging up on my, then, 1 year old son. There were other issues too.

These are not traits I had seen in this family before and I had known them a very long time. Years. For them, it was a SHTF situation and it turned them into awful people. I ended up telling them to leave and they refused. I started to wonder if they were going to change the locks one day when I was out and squat in my house. Ended up waiting until they went out and refused to let them back in.

Have worked for a church run welfare/aide agency. People in my town, ripping off aide agencies, left, right and centre. Some of the staff help themselves too. Also live in a country town, where everyone knows everyone. So, I know there's a lot of people I would say "No" to.

I have helped people, on desolate stretches of road where no one would have ever known what happened if I'd gone missing.

It could have be TSHTF right then and there. You never know what's coming.

I would follow my intuition on this, since its pretty accurate I know it wouldnt steer me wrong on it.

If I felt ok with the person, I would then send them to the quarantine house/area to make sure they were well etc, and once out of there, limit their knowledge for a time period. Only when they are shown they can be trusted would the supplies etc be shown to them.

This is seriously a no brainer.

What kind of civilization do you want to build if this one fails?

One where it's OK to shoot people for approaching you in search of help?

Or one where people help each other?

Personally, something like this really happens, I won't be hold up, I'll be out wandering hunting for the ones that shoot others on site, they will be my mission for as long as I'm able.

very good point you´re making Anya, as if you´ve read my mind yesterday...

now, our family has helped people in the past get through some hard times. whenever financial support was out of question, we helped in any way we could, like putting em up, etc..

in a worst case scenario, things might look very different though.

wether or not someone will be helped depends on various things such as facial analysis, gut feeling about that person, and other factors. i´m not fond of helping a person who "smells" like a ruthless and violent criminal..


i find it important to be ready for some acts of selflessness, but next of kin come first, then the others. if helping someone else is totally out of question, too bad. hopefully they will understand and move on.

the best would be, if one was able to integrate strangers and put them to use as quickly as possible to somehow gather additional food/supplies to make it enough for all again. if this is not so, maybe a extra person could provide manpower and share the food/water with the person who otherwise would have had to do all the necessary work alone... any idea/variation of the previous would do as long as it does not bring everything "out of balance"..

survivalism would be fairly easy if i only had to take care of myself and had a "shoot first, ask later" mentality like many others do.
but that is not who i am. my aim would be to form a growing community with emphasis on mutual respect and support. such a group might bring back a feeling of security and a sense of "civilisation"..and if big enough, maybe even able to defend itself against mob violence.

south american history shows how a huge empire could form just by exercising tolerance/mutual respect and support; but history also shows how a handful of greedy, ruthless and armed spaniards were able to crush that peaceful empire. therefore vigilance, defense and strategy are not to be neglected.

This is a situation to be approached cautiously. Yes, people looking for food might be a danger and you'd have to be careful. On the other hand, with 70% of the population gone, human life becomes extremely precious and not to be squandered recklessly. Especially since refugees might have skills that might mean the difference between life and death for your group. And then too, something no one has brought up yet is that farming is HARD work. If you've still got mechanical aids like tractors and pumps it's not AS hard; but otherwise, if you're having to weed truck gardens by hand and hoe and contemplate harvesting fields of grain with scythes and horse drawn reapers, you'll want PLENTY of help at hand, even if it means feeding them...

Also, one of the things many folks here talk about constantly is the need to return to Christian values and rebuild civilization along those lines. Well, you-know-who said "Love your neighbor like yourself", and sending needy people away hungry ISN'T love. Put your money - and your food - where your mouth is or be revealed as a hypocrite.

"Sorry, don't want to hear the sob story. Leave me alone to slowly starve to death in peace. Move along."

Seriously, 70% of the world's population dead and they want to live on my land and cuddle up to me?

No, thank you. The world will be plenty big enough for everybody to have their own plot of land and to do what they want to it. Go homestead something.

This is totally situation dependant.......

I can't say Yes......I can't say No

How the heck would we know when you aren't faced with a "Given Situation"

You can certainly see what will happen to you, with some of the posters on here if you are seriously "Down On Your Luck"

It would depend on their skills and if my group needed them. It would depend on my own groups food situation as well. If we could spare a few meals, the person may be able to earn the food or supplies they need by doing some work for my group. Would I just give away to them what they needed? No.

I have a bartering system in mind. If they have nothing then maybe trade labor. I will be praying a lot of God's guidance so hopefully I will be able to discern who to help and who not to help.

I know people with say this and that about bartering such as people will take it etc. I won't be letting people in my shelter, nor will they know what I have. Like I said, I have a system planned.

I know that I will not have resources to help everyone in need so, I will have to be careful and picky on who I will help. I also will be more inclined to help someone who is with child or old then a grown able man who is capable of moving on and caring for himself.

I probably won't let anyone join the group as far as living with us. There just isn't enough room. But I do have baby formula and medicine stored up.

There will probably be a designated drop point for delivering goods and taking orders for exchanges with one person being the golfer as to not jeopardies the rest of the group.

Is she pretty? I am tired of sleeping with the dog to stay warm at night.

On a note of selfishness from a survivalists point of view....

We cannot save others if we have 'not prepared' to save them.

It is a hard fact of life that the Survivor must be Selfish in order to SURVIVE.

Just be authentic with what you do and you can be at peace with whatever the outcome is Anya.

For one to be Successful at Survival understand the importance of all the 'S' words and how one's Success at Survival balances on the interaction of all the 'S' words and by practical application of a Successful Survival philosophy.

And while we do need a modicum of Smarts to be a Successful Survivor...well, let me paraphrase the title of an old post I wrote called 'Academic Smarts are not the Same as Peace Smarts' so it is apropos here:

'Academic Smarts are not the Same as Survival Smarts.'

Sure, I'd love to help and save everyone in our world that needs help.

But the realities of being a Successful Survivor are this.

To be Successful at Survival requires one to be Selfish as opposed to Selfless.

It is impossible to be a Saint and Save everyone in the world that has not done their preparedness footwork to Supply their emergency needs.

Just Sharing Some of your emergency Supplies with one other person may put your life in jeopardy.

So now there are two deaths as opposed to one.

But only you can judge how many lives your Supplies can maintain and your desires to be philanthropic can Support.

Don't ever let another person tell you otherwise. The one's doing the browbeating are usually the one's that have done little in the area of preparedness.

But the concept of Sharing goes beyond just Sharing Supplies. It also encompasses Sharing our time and our energies - for Survival can be a full time job just to keep ourselves and our loved one's alive.

We are all human and have limitations, so we can only Spread ourselves so thin before we Start to develop cracks in our health - whether it be mental health or physical health.

The Successful Survivor must accept that the Self must come first. And while it is unfortunate that the foundation of that Success is based in Selfishness and not in philanthropy...that is what the reality of it is.

If we lived in a perfect dream world, then we could wipe out all these unfortunate and unforeseen circumstances that would cause one to have to prepare for possible disasters, upheavals and emergencies.

But the cold hard facts are that the business of Survival is not always nice and pretty - but it is always rooted in putting the preservation of one's own life first.

This book gives goes into detail with this topic of 'Survival Philosophy'.

I highly recommended it...get it from your library

Amazon.com: The Complete Book of Survival: How to Protect Yourself Against revolution,Riots, Hurricains, Famines and Other natural And Man-Made Disasters (9781569801208): Rainer Stahlberg: Books

Let me delve into the concept of Selfish versus Selfless actions a little more. I don't wish to promote the wrong view that being Selfish is the key to being happy and at peace.

As the Taoists tell us...fleas come with the dog. And if one desires to be a Survivalist, then one must accept some fleas to come with the job.

Most humans have a natural desire to help those in need. It is part of their makeup. But we must accept that we have built our world on unsustainable means - a means built artificially on fossil fuel.

And when we live out of balance with natures intended means there is a price to pay to come back in balance with nature. And the price usually extracts pain from us in the adjustment process.

The world is in a death Spiral. It is just how we have built our world over the years. We can't blame any one person for this fact - we are all to blame. It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day.

But seven billion people can't burn the trees!

It has been estimated that for the earth to Sustainably Support its population without fossil fuels a 90% dieoff must occur. I don't know if that figure is right, but I do know humans could not live as they do unless it was funded by artificial means via fossil fuels. Our life on earth has been 'pumped up' via steroids and growth hormones a.k.a. crude oil.

So if this dieoff happens, of course there will be great amounts of pain in the world. But it is natures intended balancing act. It also reminds us that nature does not bow to humans - it is humans that always bow to nature.

Animals live within their intended balance with nature and it is only man that destroys his environment and has to pay the price through pain and Suffering from working against nature.

This is why we humans need moral guidance or a moral conscience since they have a 'free will' of Sorts. If we did not have such a feature we would soon Self-destruct.

Actually it is like this.

We are free to do what we want -- but are not free to want what we want.

All our actions have consequences, and many of our actions produce consequences that end up destroying peace. (both ours and other's peace).

This is what separates us from the animals that run Solely on instinct.

Humans run by instinct as well as moral guidance. And what makes us a human is why we even have to discuss this question of helping others in the first place.

This question of Sustainability is the key to helping one make the tough decision as to whether to help another out with their provisions or energies.

If whatever you offer is available to you in unlimited amounts or amounts that would be hard to deplete, then one may not have to be so concerned with Sharing such bounty. (Although Sharing anything with desperate people also has the potential for Security problems irrespective of the question of Sustainability.)

But whatever way you decide to proceed...be authentic and you can be at peace with your actions.

The 'authenticity acid test' would ask the question; 'Would you do the same thing again knowing the outcome of your actions?'

If you would not do it again, then your actions are not authentic, since you are not at peace with the outcome.

Authenticity is the key to being at peace. For even if you or your loved ones must die early to gratify one's philanthropic desires, then one can be at peace with that outcome if one authentically puts philanthropy above personal Survival.

Thoreau once noted that people inviting him to a dinner would get their pride from how expensive and fancy a meal that could make. He on the other hand said, he got his pride from how simple and inexpensive a meal he could make.

This all goes back to my quote on Thoreau and the subject of pride...where do we put our pride with our survival efforts?

Do we put our pride in helping others first and ourselves and our family Second?

Or do we put our pride in Self preservation?

...In the end you only have to please yourself with your actions...just be authentic with what you do and you can be at peace with whatever the outcome is.

One other point; none of us will be ultimate survivors, we all have to die one day. But the successful survivor extends his or her life beyond an earlier death...a death that was caused by ignorance of how to make that life last longer.

The Survivalists Creed: "The well prepared are under no obligation to endanger their own survival to assist those who have refused, for whatever reasons, to provide for their own welfare!"

This is an easy question, sure you can throw all kinds of situations out there but the answer is always the same no, I am protecting and feeding me and mine that is what I am prepared for and that is what I am doing. God I have been doing my part for these people all my working life through taxes now I have to take care of them PSHTF too? No f'n way.

I believe that it woulddepend on the situation. They would have to be questioned and have a probation period where they would stay away from the rest of the group during major downtimes. I might be soft on thinking that way but I also have the means for dealing with them if they try to harm my family.

The short and (IMO) only answer is, "it depends."

Do they offer a skill you need? Do you have the extra food necessary to support them? Do you have land you can't farm for which you could use that extra labor to help it produce and thus support them? Can you trust a stranger in your midst, i.e., do you have enough security that you can allow them in? Do they have weapons, and if you let them in, would they have access to yours?

Trying to decide ahead of time, without knowing these and other specifics, is just speculation. You may also find that in some situations, you'd not let them in, but if things changed, you would.

This question has been debated, many times, on this forum. The general concensus is.......there is no "one size fits all" response.

The bible says treat your neighbor as you would yourself, so yes. You might not get alot, but you will be glad to have what you have.