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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-18-2019 06:19 PM
jvtater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candle View Post
I've been looking into not-huge cattle for newbies... I'm wanting meat and milk, good temperament, and good maternal instincts.



Tarentaise were recommended to me, and the dude who I spoke with at the local stock show said even his bulls are pretty even tempered. (to the farmers they know, at least)



Thoughts?
While the terentaise are good cattle. Me personally if I was going to go that size of cow. I would look into braumvieh cattle

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03-18-2019 04:54 PM
Candle
Tarentaise

I've been looking into not-huge cattle for newbies... I'm wanting meat and milk, good temperament, and good maternal instincts.

Tarentaise were recommended to me, and the dude who I spoke with at the local stock show said even his bulls are pretty even tempered. (to the farmers they know, at least)

Thoughts?
09-10-2018 02:54 PM
Elk Wallow Well I looked around and I found this. It is about making your own dairy grain feed for goats and also cows. from http://lifeatmennageriefarm.blogspot...goat-feed.html

" I found a recipe that seemed easy enough to make, proved to be cost effective, and the goats did AMAZINGLY on it. I've used this recipe ever since. I've even fed it to my dairy cows (with a slight modification that is explained below). So I thought I would share my recipe with y'all; if you're looking to try making your own feed for your caprine friends, then give this one a whirl!

Homemade Dairy Goat Ration

Ingredients:
50 lbs. Rolled barley
50 lbs. oats; whole, crushed, or rolled... Doesn't matter unless you're feeding cows. Then you want it crushed/rolled to increase digestibility.
3 lbs. Linseed meal
1 lb. kelp meal
Molasses to coat everything

The barley is essential for this mix. Barley = milk. The oats can be replaced with a different grain, but take care that you look into how that changes the protein content. This mix is supposed to come out averaging 16% to 18% protein, but you may want to check that on your own since grain can vary in protein content from area to area.

To Mix:

1. Find a big clean tarp (those blue, 10'x12' ones work great) and a clean leaf rake. These are your grain mixing tools!

2. Dump the oats and barley onto the tarp and use that rake to start mixing it all together. This can take a few minutes.

3. Once the grain is thoroughly mixed, scatter the linseed meal and kelp meal over it all and gently spread it out. Over mixing at this point will make it all sift to the bottom, which makes the next step a bit harder...

4. Pour molasses over and mix that in too until you get a slightly tacky, but still well coated mix. How much molasses does it take? I can't say for sure. I've gotten nice thick batches of molasses where it only took 12 cups to coat 100+ lbs. of feed, and I've gotten thin batches that took loads of that sticky, sweet stuff to coat everything. I would probably suggest starting with 10-12 cups worth and then working your way up from there. It takes a LOT of mixing to really coat everything. It's almost like you have to "rub" it into the grain with that rake. When you think you've gotten everything coated, pull on a tarp corner to get the bottom flipped onto the top and then get that coated. Yep, right when you think you're done, you'll find that you're not.

5. Store! I kept my grain in metal trash cans meant specifically for grain. I find that this stuff stores pretty well (I think 40-50 days is the longest I've ever had this stuff hang around before it all got eaten), although since we don't get REALLY hot days here in Oregon, or humidity, I can't say what the shelf life of it would be for those of you who get real summers.

You may have noticed that I didn't include any salt in the mix; that's because I offer salt free choice at all times to my goats/cows. The kelp meal is a nutritional powerhouse that is packed with vitamins, minerals, and other such goodies, but not all of my goats would eat it free choice. Hiding it in the molasses coated feed got it in them no problem.
09-04-2018 07:32 AM
BravoLimaDelta Elk, my dad feed a 16% protein dairy feed mix that a local feed mill made. At that time, there were a lot of dairies in this area. The feed mill made a steer fattener ration that we had extra rolled corn added that we used to fatten the calves. I don't know the ration make up and I've forgotten most of what I learned in my feeds and feeding class at the U of A.
09-03-2018 10:58 AM
Elk Wallow Please explain what fed right means? I feed my Jersey good grass pasture and cattle cubes. The amount of 20% protien high carb cubes is judged according to her cow pies so my cowboy husband says. They should be flat like a chocolate pie.

There are two peaks of grass nutrition in Central Texas, one in the spring from mid April to about July first, and another in the fall from September to mid October. At these times of peak grass the nutrition is more than she needs and her pies are flat with no feed, although if milking heavily she will loose weight. And we don't like her too thin to be bred back, they don't come into heat.

As the grass gets less nutrition and more fiber her height of cow pies increases. You don't want them to be like Egytian pyramids. This means that her rumen bacteria are too poor to do their job of digesting cellulose. We feed the bacteria actually, not the cow so much. So right now she needs no extra feed with a 4 month old calf on her. I just take as much milk as I need for the house.

Jerseys 'milk off their backs' as you know. They loose a lot of weight putting out all that cream. This is not dairy country and there are no dairy grain mixes available, just cow cubes. So thats why I ask, how did your dad feed these Jersey crossbreds? What mixture of what kind of grain? Thanks
08-27-2018 04:30 PM
BravoLimaDelta Elk, my dad had a couple of half Angus/half Jersey milk cows. They were excellent milkers with plenty of butterfat if feed right plus the 3/4 beef calves made excellent meat. Best milk cow he ever had was a Hereford/Holstein cross.
08-27-2018 04:19 PM
Elk Wallow Has anyone milked a half Angus half Jersey? Do they make good milk with enough butterfat? I just halterbroke my 300 lb heifer that had never had a hand laid on her. Now I can walk up to her in the pasture, halter her and lead her off. I figure to raise her for a milk cow. Not only that, her calves will be 3/4 Angus. Shes black, not pretty fawn like her mother, but has a tremendous amount of dairy character.
08-26-2018 11:39 AM
jvtater
Quote:
Originally Posted by old-grunt View Post
Looking for advice on mini moos lol,I'm a old fart grew up on farm and have raised hogs or cattle all my life plus rowcrop,now days I rent out rowcrop ground but keep a small herd of Angus cross breed usually 20-25 cows,for some goofy reason I bought a little herd of mini moos few days ago LOL,who hasnt bought something then thought why did i do that OK truthfully I did little research and had five 1/2 sides of beef sold in future and lots of interest before I took the plunge and bought them, my question is,is there anything different I need to watch out for diseases,feed needs ect. then regular old beef cattle,my big purchase consists of 1 Dexter bull,1 young Dexter cow with 3 month old full Dexter heifer calf,1 young Aberdeen Angus cow,with 3 month old 1/2 Dexter bull calf,2 bred Aberdeen Hiefers in early 2nd period bred to Dexter bull,all are bred to different bull then one I bought with mini moo herd,they was cheap, we're in a pretty severe drought and grass and hay is in short supply around here,luckily I rented 100 acres of pasture and hay ground last year to increase my herd,so I'm sitting pretty with grass and Hay..lot of culling going on around here but as you know you cull your oldest and poorest,these are all good looking healthy young stock bought off farm,and bought very reasonable. if there is anything special about the mini moos I need to know please enlighten me
Easy calving, easy milking if you want to milk one. Easy handling. The only downfall I've found with the Dexter's is they can be hard to market in the sale barn

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08-26-2018 05:50 AM
RW_in_DC
Willows and Salicylic Acid

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvtater View Post
Willows are medicinal
True: https://home-remedies.wonderhowto.co...-tree-0142525/

Yet, two willows means according to the above URL, that you can only harvest two doses per year, one/tree/year.

08-26-2018 01:57 AM
old-grunt Looking for advice on mini moos lol,I'm a old fart grew up on farm and have raised hogs or cattle all my life plus rowcrop,now days I rent out rowcrop ground but keep a small herd of Angus cross breed usually 20-25 cows,for some goofy reason I bought a little herd of mini moos few days ago LOL,who hasnt bought something then thought why did i do that OK truthfully I did little research and had five 1/2 sides of beef sold in future and lots of interest before I took the plunge and bought them, my question is,is there anything different I need to watch out for diseases,feed needs ect. then regular old beef cattle,my big purchase consists of 1 Dexter bull,1 young Dexter cow with 3 month old full Dexter heifer calf,1 young Aberdeen Angus cow,with 3 month old 1/2 Dexter bull calf,2 bred Aberdeen Hiefers in early 2nd period bred to Dexter bull,all are bred to different bull then one I bought with mini moo herd,they was cheap, we're in a pretty severe drought and grass and hay is in short supply around here,luckily I rented 100 acres of pasture and hay ground last year to increase my herd,so I'm sitting pretty with grass and Hay..lot of culling going on around here but as you know you cull your oldest and poorest,these are all good looking healthy young stock bought off farm,and bought very reasonable. if there is anything special about the mini moos I need to know please enlighten me
08-25-2018 12:07 PM
jvtater
Quote:
Originally Posted by RW_in_DC View Post
You may find the USDAís Agroforestry resources useful, specifically the silvopasture ones: https://www.fs.usda.gov/nac/practice...opasture.shtml

But, my inclination is that two trees arenít much shade or much of a forest. Too, willows arenít edible; why not consider more trees, i.e., apples, pears, oaks, etc?
Willows are medicinal

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08-25-2018 09:58 AM
RW_in_DC
Shade or Agroforestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyme2bprepped View Post
To get ready for the new additions to our farm we have some things to do, and quite a few questions.

4. Shade - Our pasture doesn't have any until very late in the evening. We planted 2 weeping willows last year, but they haven't grown much yet. In the meantime we are thinking to make something like a carport, or a hoop house built of PVC with shadecloth or tarp. Not sure yet, haven't drawn up any plans for that. Might want to make it mobile in case we divide the pasture into quarters and rotate their grazing.
You may find the USDAís Agroforestry resources useful, specifically the silvopasture ones: https://www.fs.usda.gov/nac/practice...opasture.shtml

But, my inclination is that two trees arenít much shade or much of a forest. Too, willows arenít edible; why not consider more trees, i.e., apples, pears, oaks, etc?
07-18-2018 10:00 PM
jvtater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark View Post
Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Lowline
Ok

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07-18-2018 09:39 PM
Roark
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvtater View Post
I thought that was how they got the lowline breed.. by isolating the dwarf gene ?? And breeding the positive sides of it. ??
But I could very easily be very wrong.


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Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Lowline
07-18-2018 09:28 PM
Roark
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
Many on these boards underestimate the usefulness of cattle and overestimate the difficulties of having them. For those with enough land they are great stock and quite versatile.
Challenges of grazing out west drives a lot of that I think. 4' of rain a year makes life a whole lot simpler out here on the wrong coast

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
I have found that any really/genuinely grass fed beef is a lot better than anything you will buy from a store. It makes me think that what is sold in stores as "grass fed" is probably fake.
We've had issues with USDAh facilities trying to substitute their corn fed crap, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if you were correct. They're all scoundrels. Owner of one told my mentor that his ethics were going to take him broke. The guy who said that routinely masquerades feedlot for pastured while my bud retired a very wealthy man, ethics intact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
Agreed on having polled cattle. That is particularly important for people with limited handling infrastructure (ie yards, crush, headbale etc) and experience - it is the horns that can really hurt you....
That and gettin' stepped on. Little cows hurt less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
It is also important to not accept bad temperament. If you notice bad behaviour from an animal a few times, it is best to get rid of that one and get (or breed) a better behaved replacement. That is the only way to end up with a good herd.

Over the more than twenty years we have been running breeding cattle, we have progressively produced cattle with better temperament. My current bull frequently walks up to me so I can rub his head.
Absolutely! That and easy birthing and good mothering. Kick your calf and you're hamburg mom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
Not sure if mini cattle do that much less damage to land. Their hooves are in proportion with their weight so exert about the same ground pressure. Goats and sheep are probably harder on land (despite being individually smaller). Bear in mind that mini cattle breeds (and their crosses) are almost entirely traded in a different market to commercial breeds. That market relies upon private sales, a boutique meat market and self consumption. If you are OK with that then your plan sounds good.
Better yields from smaller animals means less of everything else, from inputs to run-off, per hundredweight, so yeah, the smaller breeds are less stress overall and in every way.

As for comparisons to "commercial breeds" and their markets, the majority of that is pure serfdom, raising commodity product that someone else sets the price of, so it's a great thing that they are different. The market out east is desperate for quality pastured meats that aren't pumped full of "farm-acology" and Genetically Mutant Organisms. The difference in prices is laughable. Of course, without the commodity serfs, the high-profit niche markets wouldn't exist.
07-18-2018 08:52 PM
jvtater
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roark View Post
Lowline Angus/Aberdeens. Easy care great grazers in every respect, plus they don't carry the dwarfism gene (no knock on your cattle, but I'm pretty sure Dexters do). Regardless, the smaller breeds outyield the standard size cattle hands down.
http://easternlowline.com/
I thought that was how they got the lowline breed.. by isolating the dwarf gene ?? And breeding the positive sides of it. ??
But I could very easily be very wrong.


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07-18-2018 08:40 PM
Roark Lowline Angus/Aberdeens. Easy care great grazers in every respect, plus they don't carry the dwarfism gene (no knock on your cattle, but I'm pretty sure Dexters do). Regardless, the smaller breeds outyield the standard size cattle hands down.
http://easternlowline.com/
07-18-2018 08:38 PM
hardcalibres
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvtater View Post
I can attest that the Dexter's are very easy to handle. You can milk them, eat them, and if shtf use them as oxen. You can easily breed up or down in size with the Dexter's. Which makes it nice, if your wanting bigger or smaller just pick your bull.

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Many on these boards underestimate the usefulness of cattle and overestimate the difficulties of having them. For those with enough land they are great stock and quite versatile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thyme2bprepped View Post
It's been years since I started this thread, and I still love our Dexters even though they are bigger than goats. Grass fed Dexter beef is excellent, better than any beef I've ever bought from the store. One sacrificed animal lasts a very long time. They are very mild mannered for the most part. Castration of a bull calf proved difficult, mostly trying to catch him. After he was caught he was ok to deal with, and we're newbs still.

Try to get them without horns or they may learn to wreak havoc on a fence.
I have found that any really/genuinely grass fed beef is a lot better than anything you will buy from a store. It makes me think that what is sold in stores as "grass fed" is probably fake.

Agreed on having polled cattle. That is particularly important for people with limited handling infrastructure (ie yards, crush, headbale etc) and experience - it is the horns that can really hurt you....
It is also important to not accept bad temperament. If you notice bad behaviour from an animal a few times, it is best to get rid of that one and get (or breed) a better behaved replacement. That is the only way to end up with a good herd.

Over the more than twenty years we have been running breeding cattle, we have progressively produced cattle with better temperament. My current bull frequently walks up to me so I can rub his head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
I am thinking about cross fencing my place and am looking at MINI- BREEDS OF CATTLE reason being some of them are not much bigger than very large goats and maybe even crossbreeding them some the ones I like are Dexter , Scottish Highland , ZEBU , low line Angus , Hereford and Belted Galloway. I may try and find a dairy farm that uses Jerseys I know a lot of them breed their first calf heifers to small Angus bulls and Bottle raise some heifer calves. My reason being is smaller cattle do less damage to the land and from what I have read these breeds are great foragers and do well as grass fed beef. And in a SHTF butchering a weaned calf would have less waste in warm months. And each of these breeds bring something unique to the table as well. Just something I am thinking about. I like goat meat , lamb as well has chicken , but i really like beef.
Not sure if mini cattle do that much less damage to land. Their hooves are in proportion with their weight so exert about the same ground pressure. Goats and sheep are probably harder on land (despite being individually smaller). Bear in mind that mini cattle breeds (and their crosses) are almost entirely traded in a different market to commercial breeds. That market relies upon private sales, a boutique meat market and self consumption. If you are OK with that then your plan sounds good.
07-18-2018 08:09 PM
thyme2bprepped It's been years since I started this thread, and I still love our Dexters even though they are bigger than goats. Grass fed Dexter beef is excellent, better than any beef I've ever bought from the store. One sacrificed animal lasts a very long time. They are very mild mannered for the most part. Castration of a bull calf proved difficult, mostly trying to catch him. After he was caught he was ok to deal with, and we're newbs still.

Try to get them without horns or they may learn to wreak havoc on a fence.
07-18-2018 07:56 PM
jvtater
Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
I am thinking about cross fencing my place and am looking at MINI- BREEDS OF CATTLE reason being some of them are not much bigger than very large goats and maybe even crossbreeding them some the ones I like are Dexter , Scottish Highland , ZEBU , low line Angus , Hereford and Belted Galloway. I may try and find a dairy farm that uses Jerseys I know a lot of them breed their first calf heifers to small Angus bulls and Bottle raise some heifer calves. My reason being is smaller cattle do less damage to the land and from what I have read these breeds are great foragers and do well as grass fed beef. And in a SHTF butchering a weaned calf would have less waste in warm months. And each of these breeds bring something unique to the table as well. Just something I am thinking about. I like goat meat , lamb as well has chicken , but i really like beef.
I can attest that the Dexter's are very easy to handle. You can milk them, eat them, and if shtf use them as oxen. You can easily breed up or down in size with the Dexter's. Which makes it nice, if your wanting bigger or smaller just pick your bull.

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