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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-03-2019 07:42 PM
Florida Jean
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
Yep, pre-vaccine polio outbreaks routinely shut down public gatherings.

Now imagine something as communicable as smallpox...spread via human-to-human contact.

You'd want to avoid interacting with anyone outside those in your immediate social circle at any cost.

Can't imagine that would be good for the economy...

Another reason to also be financially prepped.

Yes, anyone could see how workers wouldn't go to work at groceries much less have any patronage, food truck deliveries, etc. True they have been developing 'food pick-up' or 'delivery' which provides some protection for gorcery workers; not so much for those getting the supplies [unless nothing is perishable and buyers let it sit on the front porch or in the car trunk for a few days.

Schools close; those workers stay home. Parents of children out of school stay home because the daycares are closed; or their job shuts down for the 'duration'. No pay checks. Banks might stay open some -- drive through only, and ATM's until folks become afraid of infected money. No garbage pick up.

Ah, but electric bills [assuming the power keeps going] and water bills, and cable bills, and rent, and mortgage, car payments, credit card payments....
There cards electronic payment systems, but a lot of people still use cash/checks.

Toss in some normal 'disasters' blizzards [no road clearing?], downed power lines, wild fires, normal house fires, tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, and more normal 'needs' car accidents, heart attacks, lost children, crime, run over fire hydrants.

The medical system, of course will be over loaded. no paramedics. Power linemen would probably still work since it is outside work with no people contact. Firemen -- how useful if half are sick or taking care of incapatitated family members. And, during the 1918 Flu the mortuaries were over whelmed.

So, anyway, it would pay a person to have 1] a decent amount of savings for online transactions, bill paying, etc. and 2] have cash at home to deal with stuff with possible cash needs.
10-30-2019 01:57 PM
ncbill
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterWiggin View Post
I think the bigger issue than the illness of a pandemic is societies response.

SARS almost collapsed Toronto and there were "only" 44 deaths.

Be prepared for illness, but also prepared for your neighbor's response.
Yep, pre-vaccine polio outbreaks routinely shut down public gatherings.

Now imagine something as communicable as smallpox...spread via human-to-human contact.

You'd want to avoid interacting with anyone outside those in your immediate social circle at any cost.

Can't imagine that would be good for the economy...
10-29-2019 07:45 PM
PeterWiggin I think the bigger issue than the illness of a pandemic is societies response.

SARS almost collapsed Toronto and there were "only" 44 deaths.

Be prepared for illness, but also prepared for your neighbor's response.
10-29-2019 12:20 PM
oneeyeross GG= gamma globulin. Mostly used to prevent Hepatitis in the old days....
10-28-2019 04:26 PM
puttster We got a couple of special shots leaving for VN, I remember the Plague and another giant one called GG. We were supposed to go in for more after a few months. Haha- NOT.
10-28-2019 11:33 AM
oneeyeross
Quote:
Originally Posted by puttster View Post
Used to be, in the service you'd get a shot for Plague. What was that, I wonder? Can you be immunized for bacteria?
Yes, you can be immunized for bacteria. Perussis (whooping cough), Tetanus, Cholera, Typhus, the Plague (Yersenia pestis)....there are a goodly number of bacteria we get routinely immunized against.

And yes, some of us did get vaccinated for the plague while wearing the pickle suit. It wasn't a routine vaccine - I got it when I was alerted to go to Africa for an earthquake support mission. Didn't wind up going, but got the vaccines "just in case."

There are a lot we can't be immunized against, because they have a whole bunch of bacteria in their family (E. coli is one example. There are over 300 different serotypes of E. coli - only one causes real problems. The rest are beneficial, and necessary to have in your bowels.)
10-28-2019 10:26 AM
Florida Jean We still have the plague in this country. It general kills some folks every year. Generally not the pneumonic version -- but that one pops up occassionally too.

General calculated death rate from the plague in Europe [calculated over 100 to 200 years was 30% to 40%]. For modern folks who get to modern medicine it is less; but plague still pops up worldwise [a few cases near/in the Ebola hit region last month]. Still runs around +30% death rate if you don't get good, fast care.

Fortunately, except for the pneuomic plague, you just have to be on the watch fleas [and dead rats/mice lying around].


***********
Quote:
JLeeS1983I remember seeing something about researchers studying groups of people that survived the plague unharmed and they all had certain DNA markers in common that others didn't have. The were thinking they were highly resistant to it. They also found that their descendants had a generic mutation afterwards that they think made them immune. They were planning on trying to test that theory, but i don't know how far that got.
It wasn't 'all' it was that some DNA genes had a higher appearance ratio. There is some still general mutterances about that and the pestis involvement.

This genetic theory developed when some medical folks noticed that a few people, despite exposure, did not seem to catch HIV. And if they caught it, had such low levels of the HIV virus they didn't get sick; or got sick then better [with or without the anti HIV drugs] as opposed to dying from AIDS.

After case numbers like that grew, they noticed they were white men from northern Europe. Someone tossed in the idea that perhaps there had been some positive genetic selection in regards to the plague pestis way back when. I.e. some relative who had that gene and was exposed to/got the plague either didn't get it or survived because of some positive aspect of that gene. Thus the gene was selected for [and it is NOT that common among northern Europeans, just higher than other population groups].

Believe they have figured out the actual gene [if I am getting any of this wrong, someone more up on the data, please correct me]. So you could get tested for it, if you wanted.

Now, the plague has been pretty much EVERYWHERE in the Old World [developed on the steppes plains or there about -- think Huns and Mongol hoards] and had multiple waves everywhere. China, India, the Mediterrianian, etc. have probably had more exposures than northern Europeans. They may have undergone other positive gene selections that no one has figured out yet. This gene stuff is new.


****************

Quote:
puttsterUsed to be, in the service you'd get a shot for Plague. What was that, I wonder? Can you be immunized for bacteria?
I think you are thinking of Smallpox vaccination. I had it [the smallpox vaccine] as I was an Army brat going to Germany in 1958.

Still hope it is working even mildly should someone decide to unvault some of those smallpox reserves.

The 'theory' behind the gene involved with HIV [virus] and the pestis plague [bacteria] is that it amps up the persons immune system to better fight off both infections. If they have figured out the correct gene, and it does amp up the immune system, I'd suspect that carriers are also better at fighting off other diseases; perhaps down to the common cold.

**** [As a personal aside about this amping up the immune system, I also have wondered if this gene may have a part in the autoimmune illnesses that also exist.]
10-28-2019 08:23 AM
JLeeS1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuteandfuzzybunnies View Post
We donít know if most people who got the Black Death died. For all we know more people got it and didnít have obvious symptoms. We just donít really know for sure what it was or anything.
I remember seeing something about researchers studying groups of people that survived the plague unharmed and they all had certain DNA markers in common that others didn't have. The were thinking they were highly resistant to it. They also found that their descendants had a generic mutation afterwards that they think made them immune. They were planning on trying to test that theory, but i don't know how far that got.
10-28-2019 07:13 AM
puttster Used to be, in the service you'd get a shot for Plague. What was that, I wonder? Can you be immunized for bacteria?
10-28-2019 02:15 AM
Cuteandfuzzybunnies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Jean View Post
Even in those high density slum pits in Monrovia, everyone didn't die of Ebola though cases occurred there.

Then there were those apartment buildings in Hong Kong [?] that spread sars via the drains. [of was that a nasty flu -- brain worn out over this weekend].

Whatever plague that hit Athens in BC whatever didn't kill everyone [probably didn't even infect everyone]. Believe about a third of the population died.

The Black Death ran though major cities. Dense populations. Minimal medical skills. Minimal hygiene. And not everyone got it or died from it [though those that caught it generally died].

The diseases that caused a major population drop post Columbus are generally calculated to finish off 80 to better than 90 percent of the virgin indigeous population. That required multiple diseases: small pox, measles, TB, mumps, and so on, essentially striking at once or in fast sequence. But in the large cities of the Americas during the conquest everyone didn't die and that was often under war conditions.

Families used to have signs posted on their front doors if there was polio, small pox, measles, in the house. We always think of that as single family homes. But it included duplexes, apartments, and so on. And if they hadn't had previous contact they generally didn't get sick.

I had all my relatives on both sides of the family catch the 1918 flu -- and none of them died from it. Did have relatives die from other things in other years. Typhoid. Pneuminia. And so on. Had a relative catch polio. [probably a lot more did -- polio often presents as just a 'summer cold'].

*****
Yet, massive disease events causes major cultural, economic and/or historical changes. The Black Death. The Athens plague.
We don’t know if most people who got the Black Death died. For all we know more people got it and didn’t have obvious symptoms. We just don’t really know for sure what it was or anything.
10-27-2019 09:30 PM
Florida Jean Even in those high density slum pits in Monrovia, everyone didn't die of Ebola though cases occurred there.

Then there were those apartment buildings in Hong Kong [?] that spread sars via the drains. [of was that a nasty flu -- brain worn out over this weekend].

Whatever plague that hit Athens in BC whatever didn't kill everyone [probably didn't even infect everyone]. Believe about a third of the population died.

The Black Death ran though major cities. Dense populations. Minimal medical skills. Minimal hygiene. And not everyone got it or died from it [though those that caught it generally died].

The diseases that caused a major population drop post Columbus are generally calculated to finish off 80 to better than 90 percent of the virgin indigeous population. That required multiple diseases: small pox, measles, TB, mumps, and so on, essentially striking at once or in fast sequence. But in the large cities of the Americas during the conquest everyone didn't die and that was often under war conditions.

Families used to have signs posted on their front doors if there was polio, small pox, measles, in the house. We always think of that as single family homes. But it included duplexes, apartments, and so on. And if they hadn't had previous contact they generally didn't get sick.

I had all my relatives on both sides of the family catch the 1918 flu -- and none of them died from it. Did have relatives die from other things in other years. Typhoid. Pneuminia. And so on. Had a relative catch polio. [probably a lot more did -- polio often presents as just a 'summer cold'].

*****
Yet, massive disease events causes major cultural, economic and/or historical changes. The Black Death. The Athens plague.
10-23-2019 03:51 AM
Cuteandfuzzybunnies
Quote:
Originally Posted by puttster View Post
Agreed, in a pandemic, isolation is what you want. There is no reason you can't get it in your home in the city though. Just don't open the door.
I think the thought was if you live in the city you may get the bug before it’s on the news and you know to stay home.
10-23-2019 03:45 AM
Cuteandfuzzybunnies
Quote:
Originally Posted by puttster View Post
Agreed, in a pandemic, isolation is what you want. There is no reason you can't get it in your home in the city though. Just don't open the door.
I think the thought was if you live in the city you may get the bug before it’s on the news and you know to stay home.
10-23-2019 12:19 AM
puttster Agreed, in a pandemic, isolation is what you want. There is no reason you can't get it in your home in the city though. Just don't open the door.
10-22-2019 04:37 PM
PurpleKitty I am not sure if they would haul us in to provide food for the postal workers or not. Odds are strong they would pull a "Harvey" and just appropriate our supplies.

If that is the case we are absolutely camping out at home. I get my psych meds on a 3 month refill so I would be good for a while. I have plenty of people food, cat food, cat litter.

I learned a lot about cross-contamination when I was a little girl. I had very frequent pink eye infections due to the use of an eye patch. I learned pretty early on I could not touch the bad eye and then the good one, I would spread the infection. When I was 10 my parents almost died from a salmonella infection they got eating out. I learned a lot about food safety and more about cross-contamination. Add a couple of food safety courses I am pretty careful.

I don't sanitize the shopping cart but I will get one from outside in the sun which is a natural disinfectant.

My husband burned his leg last week and I have been treating it. I am very careful about cleaning my hands before and after touching him.

I would not, if at all possible, be outside riding public transit if we had a pandemic. Many of the paratransit clients are very ill and vulnerable to infection, they're going to get sick and spread it all over the fleet like wildfire.

Cabs will be just as bad.

The bus will not be much better.
10-22-2019 04:08 PM
Cuteandfuzzybunnies The idea that isolation isn’t a defense against an epidemic is silly.

Even if you are NOT completely isolated , few bugs will be so contagious that a single contact will ensure infection. So if you reduce your potential contacts by 50% you reduce your odds of infection.

Other things like hand washing , face masks , etc can also help.

In 1918 1/3 of the people who where alive got infected with the Spanish flu. Currently flu infection rates for the USA are 5-20%. So not that much better.

In 1918 10%-20% of those infected died. This number would likely
Be lower today since we have more options at least in the USA for treatment including anti virals.

Look an extra 5% of the people dying from a contagious disease would be horrible and cause major social and exemplified unrest. But it wouldn’t be like 1918.
10-22-2019 07:21 AM
Nomad, 2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by puttster View Post
Don't know why an isolated homestead would be safer in a pandemic than a suburban home.

You go to the store to buy supplies. The next day you hear about this new disease in town. Oops, maybe you should have told the store clerk to keep the change.
Your isolated homestead will likely have extra mosquitos, rats, birds and feral animals to carry the bugs to you and your garden.
The mailman and the paperboy can bring you more than the news.
Your daughter, afraid her daughter is coming down with the bug, will show up.
We don't go to town as often.
See fewer people
Further from them.

If you have a paper boy.... Your not an isolated homestead.
I have a mailbox in town I check 1x/month because mail would be stolen from my mailbox.... If I had one the closest the postman would come is literally miles from my home.

I can tell you've never lived 'on an isolated homestead'
10-22-2019 04:37 AM
Cuteandfuzzybunnies This video is mostly about Astroid impacts. But it talks about how the CDC can detect disease in an area by indicators like O.J. purchases , Netflix usage and traffic patterns. They also predict evacuation related diseases.

https://youtu.be/7dbwaJfk5Zk
10-21-2019 02:29 PM
arleigh I make my own colloidal silver and Have a significant reserve of cider vinegar and honey which are all antibacterial.
Alcohol is another necessity along with chlorine and the disinfectants ,UV lights are also a significant tool in airborne disease control. While working in medical prosthetic manufacturing UV lights were at every entrance of every building, obviously could not sea with bacteria under clothing but what came from out doors was a threat dealt with significantly.
The place i worked I was allowed to bring home my tyvex/paper/plastic jump suit And I put them away in the event it became necessary. Radio active fall out, volcanic dust, pandemic, or dealing with dead bodies or infectious disease.
Dealing with the dead, deceased or not is going to be a big issue, and remaining sterile is going to be a challenge.
10-21-2019 02:28 PM
arleigh edited duplicate
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