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Thread: Is A Civil War Brewing in America? **Official Merge Thread** Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 07:53 PM
jetgraphics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost863 View Post
Sovereign citizen or not, If you do not pay your federal taxes, they will arrest you and put you in prison. Don't believe me, just ask Wesley Snipes. He did 9 years in club fed for income tax evasion.
And the gentleman in question FILED A FORM WITH HIS NUMBER ON IT, establishing that he had CONSENTED. (Dumb) (BTW - he didn't serve 9 years in prison - keep throwing lies and they may stick. Actor Wesley Snipes has been released from a federal prison where he was serving a three-year sentence after being convicted on tax charges in February 2010.)

But using "sovereign citizen" is a sure fire sign you're a defender of the status quo. Despite the FACT that the supreme court says Americans are sovereigns without subjects, and citizens are subjects of sovereigns, you keep snarking "sovereign citizen," as if that makes your rebuttal any more accurate than before.

If you are a nontaxpayer, having not exercised any revenue taxable privileges, you will not be arrested, nor convicted, nor hassled.
"The revenue laws are a code or system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers, and not to nontaxpayers. The latter are without their scope. No procedure is prescribed for nontaxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their RIGHTS and remedies in due course of law. With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither of the subject nor of the object of the revenue laws..."
Economy Plumbing & Heating v. U.S., 470 F2d. 585 (1972)

"The income tax is, therefore, not a tax on income as such. It is an excise tax with respect to certain activities and privileges which is measured by reference to the income which they produce. The income is not the subject of the tax: it is the basis for determining the amount of tax."
--House Congressional Record, March 27, 1943, page 2580.
SOVEREIGNS WITHOUT SUBJECTS
“... at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects, and have none to govern but themselves. . .
“... In Europe, the sovereignty is generally ascribed to the Prince; here, it rests with the people; there, the sovereign actually administers the government; here, never in a single instance; our Governors are the agents of the people, and, at most, stand in the same relation to their sovereign in which regents in Europe stand to their sovereigns.”
- - - Justice John Jay, Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 2 Dall. 419 419 (1793)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...CR_0002_0419_Z

In American law, PEOPLE are the sovereigns, served by government - not ruled by it - unless they consent - as citizens.
"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "subject" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
- - - State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)
SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425
When Americans finally get ticked off at being "voluntary" slaves of the Glorious People's Democratic Socialist Republic and foment a revolt it will be too late. IF only they would have read their own laws and WITHDREW CONSENT, they could have averted the catastrophe.
Today 06:33 PM
Vlad Tepes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky1950 View Post
..............Further quote from the referenced article:

Democratic Virginia Rep. Gerry Connolly told the Washington Examiner of local county police who may refuse to enforce future gun control measures. “The law is the law. If that becomes the law, you don't have a choice, not if you're a sworn officer of the law.”


I think they tried that "just following the law" defence in Nuremberg and it didn't turn out very successful......go Virginia!!

Also the Revolutionary War was initiated when the British tried to confiscate arms. The Texas Revolution started when Mexico decided to confiscate a cannon at Goliad, where the famous "Come and Take It" flag first flew. Seems like there is one specific line you shouldn't cross.
The State of Virginia is in True Peril at this moment!. Bloomberg and his New Puppet Governor are Determined to Make VA a "Gun Free State" and Millions of Dollars are being Pumped in there to Make it happen!. The Dumbo Agenda is to make Virginia the "Poster Child" of Bloomberg`s Agenda to Disarm America AND he now has Control of VA!. What State is Next????. He Needs to be stopped NOW or Real America is Lost! . For Money.
Today 06:20 PM
RichardinColorado Reading a very well done and interesting book:

The Coming Civil War, Tom Kawezynski, 2018. Available on Amazon. Well written and thoughtful. So far, recommended.
Today 03:35 PM
Sky1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
..............Further quote from the referenced article:

Democratic Virginia Rep. Gerry Connolly told the Washington Examiner of local county police who may refuse to enforce future gun control measures. “The law is the law. If that becomes the law, you don't have a choice, not if you're a sworn officer of the law.”


I think they tried that "just following the law" defence in Nuremberg and it didn't turn out very successful......go Virginia!!

Also the Revolutionary War was initiated when the British tried to confiscate arms. The Texas Revolution started when Mexico decided to confiscate a cannon at Goliad, where the famous "Come and Take It" flag first flew. Seems like there is one specific line you shouldn't cross.
Today 12:10 PM
RichardinColorado My, my how selective of Delegate Jay Jones! Why was the fact that municipalities within Virginia declared themselves to be Sanctuary Cities for illegal immigrants was there not the same concern for compliance with state and/or federal law. Or how about those states that have legalized marijuana in violation of federal statutes? Are not these actions by various states and/or communities threatening the fabric of law and order in Virginia?

Moreover, as Mr. Jones said that such actions are, "...alarming and indicative of the same mindset that nearly one hundred and fifty years ago led this country to dissolve into a civil war." He should have added that it was the same mindset in 1776, 243 years ago, that led to a Revolutionary War. And here I thought the American Revolution was a good thing!
Today 11:14 AM
Lagnar
Virginia dems' response

Quote:
“And ultimately, I'm not the governor, but the governor may have to nationalize the National Guard to enforce the law,” he said. “That's his call, because I don't know how serious these counties are and how severe the violations of law will be. But that's obviously an option he has.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...ce-gun-control




"Given the recurring incidents of gun violence in Norfolk and its surrounding areas, violence that has repeatedly shown to disproportionately harm communities of color, ..."

Does this look like an AR15 to you?



An AR15 looks like something normies™ would use to protect themselves from Norfolk and its surrounding areas.
Today 10:44 AM
TheFall
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky1950 View Post
seems like the simple solution was the first solution attempted, just separate.
Separation would be an improvement. But frankly I think we can do better than that.

The left has no fight in them. They have no strategic advantage. They are a fragile collection of disparate demographics with no unifying message who live in easily toppled cities with 'Just In Time' food supplies and no way of striking back against the rural enemy that surrounds their little pockets of blue.

We could separate, or we could take the entire country back.
Today 10:34 AM
Sky1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagnar View Post
..........PEOPLE ARE ****ED OFF. I don't think the fedgov knows how ****ed off people really are.

If the tyrants in Virginia don't back the hell off, that will be where it starts.
If it did start there, it would be the second time it started in a "southern" state...seems like the simple solution was the first solution attempted, just separate.
Today 12:56 AM
Lagnar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackriver View Post
No need to arrest you. Get you fired from work, your bank accounts frozen, your wife fired. Your kids taken by CPS or expelled from school, certainly banned from sitting exams if home schooled.

Add utilities cut and perhaps a cordon at the end of your driveway... add ostracized in your town, maybe can't even shop at the local market, as anybody interacting with you could also be punished, or tainted by association...

Accompany with exemplary media coverage while it goes on and then thorough trial coverage, just to ensure others know what will happen to them if they don't comply...

How long will the average person endure that?
The "average" person will submit. Those who have little to lose will not.

Prepping means you have food, water, power and heat capable of sustaining you in emergencies where those things go away. Should the tyrants do this to you on purpose they should expect a response.

This kind of tyranny against people who have done nothing other than stand up for their rights won't happen in a vacuum. The cold rage that is simmering just below the surface will finally erupt.

PEOPLE ARE ****ED OFF. I don't think the fedgov knows how ****ed off people really are.

If the tyrants in Virginia don't back the hell off, that will be where it starts.
Today 12:44 AM
Lagnar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky1950 View Post
They don't even need to go that far.... they will just outlaw the manufacturing of certain calibers ammo.
Which why preppers bought pallets of it back in 2008. Does 7.62 and 5.56 have a "best by" date? A lot of that chi-com stuff is left over from the Korean war.
Yesterday 08:11 PM
Sky1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
They're not going to confiscate your guns in the way you seem to expect.

Why come to your house and risk life and limb to confiscate your guns? It'll be a lot more insidious than that.

You'll just get a letter in the mail ordering you to turn in your guns to your local police department within 90 days.

When you ignore that letter you'll get a court summons. If you go, you'll be ordered by a judge to turn over your guns or provide receipts proving you sold them or documents backing up an insurance claim for your boating accident.

When you ignore that court summons, or when you lie in court about the location of your guns you'll be issued an arrest warrant.

They won't come to your house for this either. Rather they will go to your place of work while you're sitting at your desk, put a boot on your car and then come inside and arrest you in front of your coworkers while you're not wearing body armor and sporting an AK47.

If you have children they will send CPS to their school and inform the principal that your children will be going home with the government employee because their father is a dangerous outlaw who has illegal weapons.

You will not have the opportunity to have a standoff with the feds from your porch.


These sanctuary counties are a nice idea, but ultimately they are going to result in unconstitutional laws being allowed to stay on the books but ignored by the law enforcement officers until the next sheriff comes along who doesn't care so much about the 2nd amendment and allows his officers to start enforcing the now existing laws. Maybe only as a tack-on crime for drug dealers or theives: "You robbed a bank? That's one charge. You robbed a bank with an illegal gun? That's a bigger charge!"

Kind of how unconstitutional 'hate speech' laws are only applied as an add-on for other criminal acts, elevating them from 'crimes' to 'hate crimes'.

These red flag laws will pass, and it will appear as if nothing has changed, until a few years later your oldest kid goes to try to buy a gun and finds out they're not allowed anymore. Then what? You going to muster an army at that point to fight the tyranny of laws that have been on the books for years and simply haven't effected most people yet? Everyone will separately get angry over it at a different time. And for a revolution to happen, everyone needs to get mad at the same time.
They don't even need to go that far.... they will just outlaw the manufacturing of certain calibers ammo.
Yesterday 07:45 PM
Vlad Tepes I,as a Citizen, have had Enough and can only Hope our President calls out "Martial Law",has the US Marshall Service Arrest and bring in ALL the Traitors behind this Phony Impeachment Scam!. I will support that and stand in front of him for that!. We either fight them Now OR they will overwhelm us in the next election!. Martial Law= Congress CLOSED,the Rats will Scatter and those who are caught will be Charged with High Treason and taken before a Military Tribunal to be Tried and Then Executed. We The People Need be Thinking about this like NOW!!!!!!. OR..We Lose this Republic,and that`s a Horror to me!. Stand Up America...NOW!.
Yesterday 07:22 PM
Vlad Tepes
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
They're not going to confiscate your guns in the way you seem to expect.

Why come to your house and risk life and limb to confiscate your guns? It'll be a lot more insidious than that.

You'll just get a letter in the mail ordering you to turn in your guns to your local police department within 90 days.

When you ignore that letter you'll get a court summons. If you go, you'll be ordered by a judge to turn over your guns or provide receipts proving you sold them or documents backing up an insurance claim for your boating accident.

When you ignore that court summons, or when you lie in court about the location of your guns you'll be issued an arrest warrant.

They won't come to your house for this either. Rather they will go to your place of work while you're sitting at your desk, put a boot on your car and then come inside and arrest you in front of your coworkers while you're not wearing body armor and sporting an AK47.

If you have children they will send CPS to their school and inform the principal that your children will be going home with the government employee because their father is a dangerous outlaw who has illegal weapons.

You will not have the opportunity to have a standoff with the feds from your porch.


These sanctuary counties are a nice idea, but ultimately they are going to result in unconstitutional laws being allowed to stay on the books but ignored by the law enforcement officers until the next sheriff comes along who doesn't care so much about the 2nd amendment and allows his officers to start enforcing the now existing laws. Maybe only as a tack-on crime for drug dealers or theives: "You robbed a bank? That's one charge. You robbed a bank with an illegal gun? That's a bigger charge!"

Kind of how unconstitutional 'hate speech' laws are only applied as an add-on for other criminal acts, elevating them from 'crimes' to 'hate crimes'.

These red flag laws will pass, and it will appear as if nothing has changed, until a few years later your oldest kid goes to try to buy a gun and finds out they're not allowed anymore. Then what? You going to muster an army at that point to fight the tyranny of laws that have been on the books for years and simply haven't effected most people yet? Everyone will separately get angry over it at a different time. And for a revolution to happen, everyone needs to get mad at the same time.
I think you May be Missing some Judges as Real America has had Enough!.
Yesterday 07:13 PM
blackriver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost863 View Post
I agree with all of this I also wanted to say that I like some of the other stuff you posted on that other web site.
No need to arrest you. Get you fired from work, your bank accounts frozen, your wife fired. Your kids taken by CPS or expelled from school, certainly banned from sitting exams if home schooled.

Add utilities cut and perhaps a cordon at the end of your driveway... add ostracized in your town, maybe can't even shop at the local market, as anybody interacting with you could also be punished, or tainted by association...

Accompany with exemplary media coverage while it goes on and then thorough trial coverage, just to ensure others know what will happen to them if they don't comply...

How long will the average person endure that?

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
Yesterday 07:08 PM
blackriver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig+28.5 View Post
^^^^^
Your right.
Things will get ugly.
They will start with soft targets( isolated and sheeple) first. Buy the time they start coming after the guns on a large scale the people will be hopefully ready and organized. Things will get bloody. But I don’t see the government using much in the way of law enforcement or our military, I see more of a handpicked army of so called fanatical left (antifa) for one to do their bidding. When that fails martial law with UN troops enforcing it. That’s when the SHTF


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Antifa are modern brownshirts. They could morph into modern SS?

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
Yesterday 07:02 PM
Lagnar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
Would be easier to just freeze accounts, utilities, medicare, etc. until compliance is met.
That would indeed be the unforgivable act. Violating a person's 2A constitutional rights by confiscating their guns and then robbing them of their life, liberty and property would mean the government was illegitimate, and CW2 would kick off in earnest.
Yesterday 06:50 PM
Lagnar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFall View Post

You will not have the opportunity to have a standoff with the feds from your porch.
You're forgetting all the old farts who hardly leave the house, who remember what the US used to be, and would rather die in a pile of hot brass than in a hospital bed with tubes up their nose.

Driveway alarms, doorbell cams, barking dogs .... get the picture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
I agree that the door to door scenario is not going to happen. I don't think it will even get that far. Would be easier to just freeze accounts, utilities, medicare, etc. until compliance is met.
From Aesop over at: https://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/

Quote:
I've seen what happened when a state had one Chris Dorner.
Believe me when I recommend that you not try it with tens of thousands of them.
Yesterday 06:41 PM
Ghost863
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
They're not going to confiscate your guns in the way you seem to expect.

Why come to your house and risk life and limb to confiscate your guns? It'll be a lot more insidious than that.

You'll just get a letter in the mail ordering you to turn in your guns to your local police department within 90 days.

When you ignore that letter you'll get a court summons. If you go, you'll be ordered by a judge to turn over your guns or provide receipts proving you sold them or documents backing up an insurance claim for your boating accident.

When you ignore that court summons, or when you lie in court about the location of your guns you'll be issued an arrest warrant.

They won't come to your house for this either. Rather they will go to your place of work while you're sitting at your desk, put a boot on your car and then come inside and arrest you in front of your coworkers while you're not wearing body armor and sporting an AK47.

If you have children they will send CPS to their school and inform the principal that your children will be going home with the government employee because their father is a dangerous outlaw who has illegal weapons.

You will not have the opportunity to have a standoff with the feds from your porch.


These sanctuary counties are a nice idea, but ultimately they are going to result in unconstitutional laws being allowed to stay on the books but ignored by the law enforcement officers until the next sheriff comes along who doesn't care so much about the 2nd amendment and allows his officers to start enforcing the now existing laws. Maybe only as a tack-on crime for drug dealers or theives: "You robbed a bank? That's one charge. You robbed a bank with an illegal gun? That's a bigger charge!"

Kind of how unconstitutional 'hate speech' laws are only applied as an add-on for other criminal acts, elevating them from 'crimes' to 'hate crimes'.

These red flag laws will pass, and it will appear as if nothing has changed, until a few years later your oldest kid goes to try to buy a gun and finds out they're not allowed anymore. Then what? You going to muster an army at that point to fight the tyranny of laws that have been on the books for years and simply haven't effected most people yet? Everyone will separately get angry over it at a different time. And for a revolution to happen, everyone needs to get mad at the same time.
I agree with all of this I also wanted to say that I like some of the other stuff you posted on that other web site.
Yesterday 06:40 PM
SeaBeeDaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFall View Post
They're not going to confiscate your guns in the way you seem to expect.

Why come to your house and risk life and limb to confiscate your guns? It'll be a lot more insidious than that.

You'll just get a letter in the mail ordering you to turn in your guns to your local police department within 90 days.

When you ignore that letter you'll get a court summons. If you go, you'll be ordered by a judge to turn over your guns or provide receipts proving you sold them or documents backing up an insurance claim for your boating accident.

When you ignore that court summons, or when you lie in court about the location of your guns you'll be issued an arrest warrant.

They won't come to your house for this either. Rather they will go to your place of work while you're sitting at your desk, put a boot on your car and then come inside and arrest you in front of your coworkers while you're not wearing body armor and sporting an AK47.

If you have children they will send CPS to their school and inform the principal that your children will be going home with the government employee because their father is a dangerous outlaw who has illegal weapons.

You will not have the opportunity to have a standoff with the feds from your porch.


These sanctuary counties are a nice idea, but ultimately they are going to result in unconstitutional laws being allowed to stay on the books but ignored by the law enforcement officers until the next sheriff comes along who doesn't care so much about the 2nd amendment and allows his officers to start enforcing the now existing laws. Maybe only as a tack-on crime for drug dealers or theives: "You robbed a bank? That's one charge. You robbed a bank with an illegal gun? That's a bigger charge!"

Kind of how unconstitutional 'hate speech' laws are only applied as an add-on for other criminal acts, elevating them from 'crimes' to 'hate crimes'.

These red flag laws will pass, and it will appear as if nothing has changed, until a few years later your oldest kid goes to try to buy a gun and finds out they're not allowed anymore. Then what? You going to muster an army at that point to fight the tyranny of laws that have been on the books for years and simply haven't effected most people yet? Everyone will separately get angry over it at a different time. And for a revolution to happen, everyone needs to get mad at the same time.
I agree that the door to door scenario is not going to happen. I don't think it will even get that far. Would be easier to just freeze accounts, utilities, medicare, etc. until compliance is met.
Yesterday 06:33 PM
TheFall They're not going to confiscate your guns in the way you seem to expect.

Why come to your house and risk life and limb to confiscate your guns? It'll be a lot more insidious than that.

You'll just get a letter in the mail ordering you to turn in your guns to your local police department within 90 days.

When you ignore that letter you'll get a court summons. If you go, you'll be ordered by a judge to turn over your guns or provide receipts proving you sold them or documents backing up an insurance claim for your boating accident.

When you ignore that court summons, or when you lie in court about the location of your guns you'll be issued an arrest warrant.

They won't come to your house for this either. Rather they will go to your place of work while you're sitting at your desk, put a boot on your car and then come inside and arrest you in front of your coworkers while you're not wearing body armor and sporting an AK47.

If you have children they will send CPS to their school and inform the principal that your children will be going home with the government employee because their father is a dangerous outlaw who has illegal weapons.

You will not have the opportunity to have a standoff with the feds from your porch.


These sanctuary counties are a nice idea, but ultimately they are going to result in unconstitutional laws being allowed to stay on the books but ignored by the law enforcement officers until the next sheriff comes along who doesn't care so much about the 2nd amendment and allows his officers to start enforcing the now existing laws. Maybe only as a tack-on crime for drug dealers or theives: "You robbed a bank? That's one charge. You robbed a bank with an illegal gun? That's a bigger charge!"

Kind of how unconstitutional 'hate speech' laws are only applied as an add-on for other criminal acts, elevating them from 'crimes' to 'hate crimes'.

These red flag laws will pass, and it will appear as if nothing has changed, until a few years later your oldest kid goes to try to buy a gun and finds out they're not allowed anymore. Then what? You going to muster an army at that point to fight the tyranny of laws that have been on the books for years and simply haven't effected most people yet? Everyone will separately get angry over it at a different time. And for a revolution to happen, everyone needs to get mad at the same time.
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