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Thread: Hand held laser, a substantial weapon Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-01-2019 10:23 PM
Madoc Unless and until it really hits the fan, I am going to stick with defenses that (a) utilize everyday objects and (b) do not kill, maim or blind as a primary objective. While the ROL persists (for those of us not part of TPTB) doing more is risking all. IMO.
07-05-2018 08:39 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisco85132 View Post
All well and good until some dipwad points one at me and catches a mess of JHPs in the high center chest.

With the proliferation of laser sighting devices attached to rifles, shotguns, and pistols...and having had them pointed at me before...one can only reasonably assume that whatever that laser is attached to will launch bullets.
WHEN I was in the drug unit I had a .45acp upper for my shorty lower (Liked the .45 upper because there wasn't the over penetration issue for raids) Anyway, one of our guys was doing a buy bust on a dealer and as soon as our agent cleared the sellers vehicle cars closed in. He was in a 3/4 ton PU with 4wd and he sat there and you could tell he was thinking about going for it. I was quartered away from him and I turned on my laser sight and painted the end of his nose. It got his attention and he turned to look and I dropped the red dot to his chest. He turned off the truck and raised his hands.

The good thing about them is everyone knows what they are and if the situation is right you can use it to make people NOT DO something stupid.

the down side of them is they work in both directions.
06-13-2018 04:03 PM
Potawami II I'd say more of a torture device than a weapon.
06-01-2018 03:26 PM
GKII I have a 90w commercial laser/engraver, someday when I get good enough on the set up I'll post some pic's . I know it will cut 1/2" red oak with a smooth almost sanded cut or turned down it will lightly char paper. WAAAAY to heavy for a weapon/pointer it's a tad over 300 pounds not including the air compressor or chiller unit.
06-01-2018 03:19 PM
GKII
Quote:
Originally Posted by panoz77 View Post
You do realize that a target will be moving and the beam will not be focused on the same spot long enough to do any damage right? That beam would have to remain on the same spot for 1/2 to 1 second to do anything, do you think your attacker is going to stand still while you try and keep your laser on his left nut?
Try the right one instead!
05-30-2018 06:25 PM
Frisco85132 All well and good until some dipwad points one at me and catches a mess of JHPs in the high center chest.

With the proliferation of laser sighting devices attached to rifles, shotguns, and pistols...and having had them pointed at me before...one can only reasonably assume that whatever that laser is attached to will launch bullets.
04-25-2018 11:00 PM
panoz77
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthyMcStealth View Post
Well I just got it today. Testing is coming. If you mean lighting stuff on fire, that is close range as far as I have seen so far.
You do realize that a target will be moving and the beam will not be focused on the same spot long enough to do any damage right? That beam would have to remain on the same spot for 1/2 to 1 second to do anything, do you think your attacker is going to stand still while you try and keep your laser on his left nut?
04-25-2018 04:53 PM
Big_John Fantastic info..... Gracias!



Quote:
Originally Posted by WImountainMan View Post
Lasers are regulated by the FDA and back in 2014 every "laser pointer" more powerful than 5mW was made illegal (also why I don't use mine anymore).
You can buy and "own" lasers in the watt-power level 10-100W (engravers) and industrial cutting lasers in the thousands of watts... but again, if you turn it into a laser pointer... you're breaking the law.

Here's a page I just found: http://www.laserpointersafety.com/ru...ws/uslaws.html

If you're not using it as a "laser pointer", as far as I know, the sky's the limit. If you want to build a 5 megawatt laser out in your pole barn, you can. You can even use it outside provided the beam is terminated on a surface. But if you're building a surveying, medical, or display device, you're supposed to get a letter from the government for it.

For comparison the lasers the military uses to shoot down drones, missiles, and artillery shells are in the tens to thousands of kilowatt class.
04-25-2018 10:07 AM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
This thread caught my eye, as I don't know much about laser pointers.... but have questions regarding these powerful ones....

The OP is talking about his 2watt laser.... but I googled and it appears if one is willing to spend $100-$200.... Joe Blow consumer can purchase a 15watt or even a 20watt laser.

I am curious what the regulations and laws are regarding these dudes?

Whats the most powerful a consumer can own?
Lasers are regulated by the FDA and back in 2014 every "laser pointer" more powerful than 5mW was made illegal (also why I don't use mine anymore).
You can buy and "own" lasers in the watt-power level 10-100W (engravers) and industrial cutting lasers in the thousands of watts... but again, if you turn it into a laser pointer... you're breaking the law.

Here's a page I just found: http://www.laserpointersafety.com/ru...ws/uslaws.html

If you're not using it as a "laser pointer", as far as I know, the sky's the limit. If you want to build a 5 megawatt laser out in your pole barn, you can. You can even use it outside provided the beam is terminated on a surface. But if you're building a surveying, medical, or display device, you're supposed to get a letter from the government for it.

For comparison the lasers the military uses to shoot down drones, missiles, and artillery shells are in the tens to thousands of kilowatt class.
04-25-2018 08:46 AM
Big_John This thread caught my eye, as I don't know much about laser pointers.... but have questions regarding these powerful ones....

The OP is talking about his 2watt laser.... but I googled and it appears if one is willing to spend $100-$200.... Joe Blow consumer can purchase a 15watt or even a 20watt laser.

I am curious what the regulations and laws are regarding these dudes?

Whats the most powerful a consumer can own?
04-25-2018 08:35 AM
Heartlander
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthyMcStealth View Post
Prior to today I have only owned laser "pointers" which are fun, but not a weapon (although they will mess with someones vision very well). So today I was at the gun show and a vendor had three lasers, two 500mW and one 2000mW. He was giving demonstrations. The 500mW would light a match on fire. The 2000mW will light paper on fire and burn holes in things. Keep in mind most people own 5mW lasers, MUCH lower power. I just HAD to have that 2000mW laser. Negotiated a deal and bam, I own one. It is SOOOOOO powerful. Will light paper on fire in a second. And don't even think about pointing it at your skin. As I did, for about half a second, until it burned my hand big time. I would say as far as non lethal weapons go, this is one of my new favorites. Way further range than pepper spray or a taser. Aimable while the threat is moving. And after the initial purchase basically zero cost to use other than keeping the batteries charged.

Fully legal to own, just not legal to shine at aircraft.
What color is it?

The FDA was close to outlawing all lasers other than Red and Orange last year.

Also check your state laws some already have laws regulating them.
04-25-2018 07:25 AM
Revmgt
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtus View Post
And just another warning as to how dangerous class 4 lasers can be. A stray reflection can beat the human blink reflex and fry spots on your retina. Scientists work under extensive safety regulations with these. Filter's, goggles, controlling lines of transmission(like lines of fire at a rifle range) non reflective lab surfaces, non reflective personal items, regular eye tests to check for stray reflection incidents over time. These are brainy guys, recreational users should maybe take note.


Off the net

"Class 4 visible-beam lasers are high-powered. A Class 4 laser can cause a significant eye injury if the beam, whether direct or reflected, enters the eye.

Even staring at the diffuse reflection of a laser "dot" on a wall or other surface, may cause an eye injury within a few feet of the dot. Do not stare at the laser "dot" when it is close to you.

To prevent eye exposure, always be aware of the beam location. Keep it away from people's eyes and heads. Watch out for reflected beams from glass and shiny surfaces.

Use of laser protective eyewear is recommended,
as discussed elsewhere on this page"


"Everyone who uses a laser should be aware of the risks. This awareness is not just a matter of time spent with lasers; to the contrary, long-term dealing with invisible risks (such as from infrared laser beams) tends to reduce risk awareness primarily due to complacency, rather than to sharpen it.

Optical experiments should be carried out on an optical table with all laser beams travelling in the horizontal plane only, and all beams should be stopped at the edges of the table.

Users should never put their eyes at the level of the horizontal plane where the beams are in case of reflected beams that leave the table.

Watches and other jewelry that might enter the optical plane should not be allowed in the laboratory.

All non-optical objects that are close to the optical plane should have a matte finish in order to prevent specular reflections.

Adequate eye protection should always be required for everyone in the room if there is a significant risk for eye injury.

High-intensity beams that can cause fire or skin damage (mainly from class 4 and ultraviolet lasers) and that are not frequently modified should be guided through opaque tubes.

Alignment of beams and optical components should be performed at a reduced beam power whenever possible"

http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/4/
https://ehs.ucsc.edu/programs/resear...ser-faq.html#7
http://www.safety.uwa.edu.au/topics/...n/lasers/rules
I was at work about ten years ago on a fabrication project and went outside to get a piece of 2" flat stock. There was only a whole length but only needed 2 feet, so instead of going inside for my cutting shield I lit the torch and did the "safety squint".
This was at night and the I moved the torch a little quick causing the Sparks to flare out instead of blowing down.
That one idiot moment caused my left eye to see some straight lines as warped, the eye doctor said the light from the torch burned some nerves at the back of my eye, causing the distortion.

It was something I'd done a hundred times, with light that's nowhere near as intense as a laser, so I'd pay attention to the warnings everyone's giving here
04-25-2018 01:40 AM
sixtus And just another warning as to how dangerous class 4 lasers can be. A stray reflection can beat the human blink reflex and fry spots on your retina. Scientists work under extensive safety regulations with these. Filter's, goggles, controlling lines of transmission(like lines of fire at a rifle range) non reflective lab surfaces, non reflective personal items, regular eye tests to check for stray reflection incidents over time. These are brainy guys, recreational users should maybe take note.


Off the net

"Class 4 visible-beam lasers are high-powered. A Class 4 laser can cause a significant eye injury if the beam, whether direct or reflected, enters the eye.

Even staring at the diffuse reflection of a laser "dot" on a wall or other surface, may cause an eye injury within a few feet of the dot. Do not stare at the laser "dot" when it is close to you.

To prevent eye exposure, always be aware of the beam location. Keep it away from people's eyes and heads. Watch out for reflected beams from glass and shiny surfaces.

Use of laser protective eyewear is recommended,
as discussed elsewhere on this page"


"Everyone who uses a laser should be aware of the risks. This awareness is not just a matter of time spent with lasers; to the contrary, long-term dealing with invisible risks (such as from infrared laser beams) tends to reduce risk awareness primarily due to complacency, rather than to sharpen it.

Optical experiments should be carried out on an optical table with all laser beams travelling in the horizontal plane only, and all beams should be stopped at the edges of the table.

Users should never put their eyes at the level of the horizontal plane where the beams are in case of reflected beams that leave the table.

Watches and other jewelry that might enter the optical plane should not be allowed in the laboratory.

All non-optical objects that are close to the optical plane should have a matte finish in order to prevent specular reflections.

Adequate eye protection should always be required for everyone in the room if there is a significant risk for eye injury.

High-intensity beams that can cause fire or skin damage (mainly from class 4 and ultraviolet lasers) and that are not frequently modified should be guided through opaque tubes.

Alignment of beams and optical components should be performed at a reduced beam power whenever possible"

http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/4/
https://ehs.ucsc.edu/programs/resear...ser-faq.html#7
http://www.safety.uwa.edu.au/topics/...n/lasers/rules
04-24-2018 02:51 PM
CONELRAD Yep, listen to Mauser. The blue lasers are really dangerous. I have one of these in the 3.5W version: http://www.wickedlasers.com/arctic But I rarely use it because I like being able to see color. As a weapon, it would only be effective as a blinding device.

To turn a laser into a true weapon (like a laser gun) you need integral range finding and the ability to to change the focal length of the beam to focus it at different ranges. All of this would have to be computer controlled. You would also need power levels in the Gigawatt if not petawatt or greater range. Megawatt probably isn't going to do it.

As far as the "self-cauterizing" effect... consider this... If you're dumping enough energy into tissue where it's possible to instantly zap a hole in someone, what may actually happen is the water in the tissues will flash to steam... which then expands to 1700 times the volume it occupied as a liquid. So instead of a nice clean hole... you cause a steam explosion inside them and they go ker-splat! Or have a very large and messy hole blown in them. In any case, it would be pretty messy.
04-23-2018 01:05 PM
rustednail
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthyMcStealth View Post
Keep living in the movie world then.
living in the "movie world"...is safer than living in fantasy land....

there is good reason that high power lasers are not good for self defense.....and if your careless in the very least....you will have first hand knowledge of the hazards.....
04-23-2018 10:26 AM
mauser6863 Danger Will Robinson Danger

The big danger with these high power lasers is that even a second of exposure causes permanent damage to your eyes. The Blue laser will destroy your ability to perceive that color as the light destroys your color receptors. It will make you blind and there is no "oops" or "fix", you are done, with one press of the button.

Even shooting a laser at a wall can cause a light splash/reflection that can cause damage. That's why lasers in higher powers are not able to be legally sold to civilians, although Chinese firms will ship to anyone with the cash.

They actually sell laser targets that absorb the light, as well as protective googles.

High powered infrared lasers are invisible to the naked eye and are dangerous as well.


Caliber and Penetration


Until you can generate a hole in the human body, that destroys all the tissue instantly, say 9mm or 45 caliber in size and 18" + depth, you will not have a viable weapon.

Even the Navy Test with industrial CO2 Laser required that the target be track, so the laser had time to burn through the missle. Hand weapons require instant effect.

No word on the effects of cauterization of the wound that occurs as the laser burns through the body. Loss of blood pressure and blood volume seems to be questionable if the laser is basically repairing its own hole, unless its a head shot or hits the spine.

Be Safe
04-23-2018 09:29 AM
SheepDog68 They’re used as rescue flares at sea or in wilderness areas and have been used by the military to stop vehicles via blinding the driver with the bright light on the windshield.

SD
04-23-2018 07:46 AM
sixtus I'd class them as inneffective until proven otherwise.

With peoples clothing, adrenaline, the movement of the target changing where the beam is hitting every second. and peoples general unawareness of them( no idea what is happening to them), I don't see them deflecting rapid incoming attacks.

Maybe as a deterrant effect in advance... but I'd also wonder about the legalities of using burning as self defence. I wouldn't want to be on the stand against a blind perp suing me for using a mechanism even the war conventions ban..

Not to sound a wet blanket, but I think more thought and evidence and some legal advice is required before touting these as a SD option.
04-23-2018 03:38 AM
BigSlick Here's the one I would build!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzUoe-9bKa0
04-23-2018 02:35 AM
HeavyHauler
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthyMcStealth View Post
Here is a quick video I took.

https://youtu.be/vhr20hmUVqQ
Interesting.

So what is the make/model?
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