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Thread: Elbow punch instead of knuckle punch? for short people too? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-02-2019 01:57 PM
deprogramming services When I first started studying martial arts many years ago I bought the fantasy that I could toughen up my knuckles by beating on things with them. So I worked out a lot with a heavy bag and I broke boards with my knuckles (but it didn't take long to figure out that I didn't want to do that anymore). After awhile though I came to the realization that I was turning my hands into clubs made out of dead flesh.

This of course is counterproductive, since hands that do what God designed them to do make the best weapons. How does a club made out of dead flesh compare to a hand that can manipulate a gun, or a knife, or a cigarette lighter, or a thousand other things, for example.

So I went to palm heel and hammerfist strikes instead. These work very well on my tire dummy, and can penetrate into it about as well as a baseball bat, so they are capable of substantial power.


I don't like to use any joint for striking, but would use elbow or knee strikes in the right situation.

The best martial art is probably the one that uses anything that's illegal in MMA competition as its basis. I remember seeing an MMA match once where two guys beat the hell out of each other round after round and just kept going. I was impressed with how tough they were. Then one of them threw out a light jab and didn't make a fist and his finger accidently hit his opponent in the eye; the opponent dropped to the ground instantly and was out of the fight (thank God his eye was not injured seriously).
11-10-2019 03:01 PM
jimdc in 7th grade we were playing a game that combinded football and soccer. i forgot the name. i had the ball and was trying to pass it but was surrounded and someone behing was trying to punch the ball out but kept hitting me in the ribs. i came around with an elbow and spread his nose all over his face. no one tried to punch the ball out from behind me after that.
11-06-2019 07:19 AM
Not PC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Swilling View Post
Bas Rutten was forced to use palm strikes per the rules and
He devastated many many opponents
Bas Rutten is one of the amazing pioneers of MMA. He fought in the Pancrase circuit which didn't allow closed fist strikes to the head at the time so he got really good at using the palm heel.

Now Pancrase is a regular MMA promotion and probably the 2nd-largest Asian MMA promotion behind One Championship.

As far as elbows & MMA, most states ban them at the amateur level but allow them in the pros.
11-02-2019 12:03 AM
Jack Swilling Bas Rutten was forced to use palm strikes per the rules and
He devastated many many opponents
11-01-2019 09:18 PM
nicktide Elbows were banned from an MMA league called Pride back in early 2000's. Why? Because an elbow is dangerous. When i trained (like 2 years) in TKD, elbows were used when Jamming (staying in close so your opponent cant get a got shot) someone. Worked well. I could hang with black and brown belts pretty well as an orange.
11-01-2019 09:08 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neut Anderson View Post
I've arrested about 400 felons and never once got into a fist or elbow fight with one. I have taken a few to the ground, but mostly used slapjacks, nightsticks, or firearms.

I never thought police officers (or innocent citizens) should risk their health or lives unnecessarily by getting into unarmed man-on-man brawls with criminals who may be carrying concealed weapons or have buddies who might "jump in". Once I told a felon (or even someone who had committed a serious misdemeanor) that they were under arrest, it was an absolute certainty that they were going to jail (or the hospital, or the cemetery) their choice. The vast majority could tell what was going to happen and chose jail. The other few? Well......... I took them all down one way or another and I never got injured and none ever got away.

Ahhhh, the "good old days" when the law protected the "good guys", prosecuted the "bad guys", and police were encouraged to do whatever it took to take dangerous criminals off the streets!
I USED to carry one of the smaller springy saps to get the attentions of individuals when needed, but some of the guys carried those horse uhhhh appendage ones as we used to call them. I saw a number of broken bones on people as a result of injudicious application to the wrong body parts. They were devastating.
THEN
because of complaints the city said no more saps.. which strangely enough resulted in more folks being arrested being injured because it required more night stick application than the shock of a good shot with a sap could provide. THey even sent everyone to stick school to teach the LAMB BATON METHOD which was striking only knees and elbows and BOY did that NEVER WORK!!!!

I usually just took fighters down using hands on techniques I had learned very early in life.
10-30-2019 12:33 AM
1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by txprep View Post
wing chun is mostly bull****. Overly complicated techniques that dont work in a fight.
A little wing chun and Muay Thai action:

10-29-2019 06:16 PM
1611 For you elbow knockout viewing pleasure:

10-29-2019 06:07 PM
1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neut Anderson View Post
I've arrested about 400 felons and never once got into a fist or elbow fight with one. I have taken a few to the ground, but mostly used slapjacks, nightsticks, or firearms.
I've never used a sap or seen one used. But a cop one another board said he used to work for an old jail sergeant that knew just where and how to "tap" an unruly inmate with a sap to put them to sleep.

Quote:
Ahhhh, the "good old days".....
Pre-Rodney King? That seems to have been the tipping point.
10-22-2019 07:15 PM
iyaayas
Quote:
Originally Posted by txprep View Post
The reason for gloves in MMA is that it would become a 90% grappling sport which is somewhat boring to watch for most people.
I don't think that would happen at all.

I do think it would put an end to the sloppy striking tho.

I'd much rather watch a technical match than some jack ass flailing away.

To each their own.
10-22-2019 10:41 AM
txprep
Quote:
Originally Posted by iyaayas View Post
Just curious how many people know why MMA fighters wear gloves at all?

The answer will likely surprise most people.....it's to protect the hands of the striker, not the face or head of the guy taking punches.

They are nothing like boxing gloves, there's not much padding but it's enough to protect the hand.

There's a good argument to be made for getting rid of the gloves. First it would force guys to pick their strikes very carefully. Meaning fighters will have to sharpen their striking game. Good for fights. Also good for the fighters because there would actually be less strikes to the head thrown since protecting the hands would now be a necessity.

The grappling game would change as well. I find it extremely difficult to grapple even with the fingerless mma style glove.

Joe Rogan, an experienced fighter himself and mma commentator has been saying this for years. The resistance to doing away with the gloves has nothing to do with protecting the fighters but the perception of the public who by and large don't understand mma.

If it was about the safety of the fighters there would be pads on the elbows, knees, and shins.
The reason for gloves in MMA is that it would become a 90% grappling sport which is somewhat boring to watch for most people.
10-22-2019 10:39 AM
txprep
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeDefense View Post
Master Wong has some good videos on this topic. He's a bit crazy, but is fun to watch.

Do not Punch in a Street Fight - EP 1 - YouTube


This guy has hundreds of videos on YouTube that demonstrate some interesting Wing Chun techniques. Wing Chun was the style used by Ip Man and the style Bruce Lee trained in before establishing Jeet Kune Do.

"Don't punch" is part of a series. Here are the others:
wing chun is mostly bull****. Overly complicated techniques that dont work in a fight.
10-21-2019 01:30 PM
Not PC I saw Bec Rawlings after one of her bare knuckle fights. Her hands were really messed up! She's now back in MMA (Bellator) where her hands are protected. If she stuck with bare knuckle fighting, I don't think her career would have lasted much longer.

As for the OP's question, elbow strikes (I've never heard it called an "elbow punch") are great for ground 'n pound or for inside the clinch. Anyone who is proficient at hand-to-hand will be proficient at lots of things to include elbow strikes. I can't think of an effective striking-based martial art that doesn't incorporate elbow strikes and there's no such thing as an effective defense system that only uses elbow strikes.
10-05-2019 04:17 PM
dontbuypotteryfromme
Quote:
Originally Posted by iyaayas View Post
Just curious how many people know why MMA fighters wear gloves at all?

The answer will likely surprise most people.....it's to protect the hands of the striker, not the face or head of the guy taking punches.

They are nothing like boxing gloves, there's not much padding but it's enough to protect the hand.

There's a good argument to be made for getting rid of the gloves. First it would force guys to pick their strikes very carefully. Meaning fighters will have to sharpen their striking game. Good for fights. Also good for the fighters because there would actually be less strikes to the head thrown since protecting the hands would now be a necessity.

The grappling game would change as well. I find it extremely difficult to grapple even with the fingerless mma style glove.

Joe Rogan, an experienced fighter himself and mma commentator has been saying this for years. The resistance to doing away with the gloves has nothing to do with protecting the fighters but the perception of the public who by and large don't understand mma.

If it was about the safety of the fighters there would be pads on the elbows, knees, and shins.
Yeah. Have you seen the faces of bare knuckle boxers after a bout?

It was an idea shared around because nobody was competing bare knuckle that people wouldn't hit as hard.

And a bunch of silly stuff about how pugalisim would be this super advanced method.

But as bare knuckle is becoming more mainstream it just isn't the case.

https://youtu.be/pX86VEqCbpM
10-05-2019 01:43 PM
NW GUY I HAVE literally been in over 1000 street "fights/confrontations/physical contact arrests where the person being arrested wanted to fight about it.

I hit with a fist maybe half a dozen times.

I am a firm believer in forearms, elbows, knees, feet, pretty much anything but fists because your fist and your wrist are about the most fragile thing you can use in a fight. Mostly I made them move first so I could have them committed into a move that I would counter and put them down. I always wanted them to make the first move.

I will use an open hand slap to head long before I will/would use a fist. NEVER underrate a good slap to the side of the head.... especially if you can box the ear at the same time. Lots of energy and things happening in that contact and when done correctly with force you can take folks off their feet fast.
10-02-2019 08:55 PM
iyaayas Just curious how many people know why MMA fighters wear gloves at all?

The answer will likely surprise most people.....it's to protect the hands of the striker, not the face or head of the guy taking punches.

They are nothing like boxing gloves, there's not much padding but it's enough to protect the hand.

There's a good argument to be made for getting rid of the gloves. First it would force guys to pick their strikes very carefully. Meaning fighters will have to sharpen their striking game. Good for fights. Also good for the fighters because there would actually be less strikes to the head thrown since protecting the hands would now be a necessity.

The grappling game would change as well. I find it extremely difficult to grapple even with the fingerless mma style glove.

Joe Rogan, an experienced fighter himself and mma commentator has been saying this for years. The resistance to doing away with the gloves has nothing to do with protecting the fighters but the perception of the public who by and large don't understand mma.

If it was about the safety of the fighters there would be pads on the elbows, knees, and shins.
05-20-2019 11:00 AM
Nightvisionary Had to fight a guy into handcuffs a few months ago. Two elbow strikes between his should blades took the fight right out of him.
03-24-2019 10:52 AM
Metcalf Win First.

It sucks to have a broken hand, it sucks more to be dead. If you are really in a life and death situation, winning is more important.

Learn to use all the tools in your toolbox, but don't hamstring yourself by training to not use them all.
03-21-2019 03:05 PM
Sinthor
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_SonofLiberty View Post
Crane fist and nukite thrust are both finger strikes used mainly against soft targets like the throat. You will hurt and even break your fingers with those attacks if you are not well trained and your fingers are not conditioned.



In other words, don't bother unless you are highly trained. IMO, YMMV
Bingo! I personally loved elbow, but I've got fairly short arms and wanted to get inside on just about everyone anyway. But the BIG point is, in my opinion, YMMV. Different training, different styles, different fighters. Not one size fits all, that's for sure!
03-21-2019 02:58 PM
A_SonofLiberty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinthor View Post
Ugh...tough break on the elbow. Sorry to hear that! Depending on the circumstance the palm heel might have been better. Hindsight being what it is!

Crane fist? Only if you REALLY know how to do that and have practiced a ton. I don't (personally) feel it has the power needed and I've seen way too many people break their wrists just practicing using that on heavy bags. Not for me, in any case!
Crane fist and nukite thrust are both finger strikes used mainly against soft targets like the throat. You will hurt and even break your fingers with those attacks if you are not well trained and your fingers are not conditioned.

Quote:
Typically the concept is to slap a punch down with the underlying "support hand"under the elbow, as the other hand thrusts out the length of the arm to stab the throat or eye. Realistically this is flawed as the distance the arm takes to thrust give the opponent a longtime period to see it, parry, trap or guard against it.
In other words, don't bother unless you are highly trained. IMO, YMMV
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