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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-28-2019 02:09 PM
Aerindel TRS-25 for me.
09-28-2019 01:13 PM
Ralioth
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
Aimpoint micros are great on SGs, but cost 3-4 times as much as the gun.

I like the XS big dot for a bead. It's tritium, so helps with low light situations.
I've always liked tritium sights. Got them on my 1911. I'm just questioning Amazon's method of mounting them, lol

Attachment 292178
09-27-2019 12:34 PM
Iamfarticus I have a BSA red dot scope on one gun and a NcStar red dot on another one. The BSA was under $30, the other around $55 on eBay.

I have a bore sight that works quite well. I got them close and fine-tune the red dots at the range. We can only use slugs in one particular range. Rice would know the place (DSI). The longest range is 12 yards and can put a slug anywhere I want on the target.
09-21-2019 11:53 AM
Carne Frio Crimson Trace makes a very interesting green laser sight.
It would make hip shooting an option:

https://www.crimsontrace.com/product...ssberg/01-7820
09-20-2019 07:06 PM
Palma HD, bead is good enough. Deer and turkey this year I'm trying a scope/Reddot because it's getting harder to see the bead clearly. At the moment those are my only uses for a shotgun.
09-19-2019 09:52 AM
Ricekila
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
I don't anticipate anyone here is hip firing their shotgun... I hope.
If the thug is close enough -- I just point it in their general direction

P/S -- I point low
09-18-2019 09:43 PM
Fatbastard Not gonna touch the point vs aim s**tshow.

For a stocked shotgun with a short-ish barrel shooting buck and slugs, I like a ghost ring. My 870 tactical is set up with the XS rail with a ghost ring on it. If your length of pull is correct, it comes into line really quick. When I purchased this weapon, I never intended to shoot anything smaller than a coyote or something that was moving in any particular direction except toward me.
My Tac- 14 wears rifle sights. No stock or brace. In theory, the rifle sights are easier to line up without the benefit of the rear being planted. I found that they are more accurate than the ghost ring when I have time. I'm not popping cans at 80 yards with slugs or anything though. They are worlds better than the bead and no slower to line up.
My "bird guns" all wear the factory beads, whatever they are. I don't hunt birds except for dove and quail so you water foul and turkey guys will know what suits you best. I will say that for shooting fast birds on the wing, the less clutter in the sight picture the better. Just make sure your length of pull is optimal and a lot of things fall into place.
09-18-2019 06:02 PM
Zuriss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Area Man View Post
Only when I'm shooting something behind me
What about if they are to the side of you?
09-18-2019 01:26 PM
Area Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
I don't anticipate anyone here is hip firing their shotgun... I hope.
Only when I'm shooting something behind me
09-18-2019 10:00 AM
Vodka Wizard Like I said before, I think it's become semantics at this point. We're all doing the same thing, just calling it something different.

I don't anticipate anyone here is hip firing their shotgun... I hope.
09-17-2019 10:05 AM
Area Man When in Rome.
09-17-2019 09:57 AM
Disturbed70 Aim:
to point or direct a weapon towards someone or something that you want to hit:
Aim (the arrow) a little above the target.
Aim at the yellow circle.
There are hundreds of nuclear missiles aimed at the main cities.
She aimed (= directed) a kick at my shins.
Let's aim for (= go in the direction of) Coventry first, and then we'll have a look at the map.

Sights, whether they are bead, ghost ring, red dot, etc, are designed to help you aim.

If you choose not to aim, because you think a shotgun is a "zone" weapon, you are wrong.
09-17-2019 09:47 AM
Area Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
The "you don't have to aim a shotgun" always amazes me. Like you said, it has to come from someone who has never patterned a shotgun. Or who has never actually shot one. At SD ranges the spread is going to be about fist-sized. Hardly a "zone."
It's not "you don't have to aim a shotgun", it's "you don't aim a shotgun".

Aiming required two points of sight. I aim my turkey gun because it has two points.

Most shotguns have only one point of sight, the bead at the end of the barrel. You point that.
09-16-2019 09:20 PM
Disturbed70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because the idea that you don't have to aim a shotgun is irresponsible and fuddlore continuously propagated by old folks too stuck in their ways.

Why even pattern your loads otherwise? Why have even a bead sight? Shooting at something with the half-hearted attempt at placement because "it's a shotgun" is silly. Aim your firearms, regardless of type.
The "you don't have to aim a shotgun" always amazes me. Like you said, it has to come from someone who has never patterned a shotgun. Or who has never actually shot one. At SD ranges the spread is going to be about fist-sized. Hardly a "zone."
09-14-2019 08:46 PM
Ricekila
09-11-2019 04:16 PM
Vodka Wizard
Quote:
Originally Posted by randkl View Post
I was giving YOU the benefit of the doubt in assuming you were young and didn't quite understand the topic. I edited my post to you three or four times before I posted exactly enough to express my opinion without insulting you.

You seem to have a bit of a prob telling those two words apart. "Aim" and "point".

In response to your question, you "pattern" a barrel with a specific ammo to get an idea of the "PATTERN" that that combo will give. You are working towards finding an acceptable "PATTERN" at a specific range with a specific type of ammo. If the "PATTERN" is too open or too ragged, you "PATTERN" a diff ammo/barrel combo until your "PATTERN" is acceptable. Yes, close in home defense range, you will want a decently tight "PATTERN"....but home defense range is only one small aspect of a "SHOTGUN". A single slug will always be better at that range. If all you want is a single deciding hit, there is no point to using anything else. Buck shot is intended to "SPREAD"....that's why it's seperate pellets. You "PATTERN" your buck to make sure it spreads enough but not TOO MUCH to ruin your "PATTERN". Am I getting that point across? Ok, let's go the opposite direction now. A "SHOTGUN" is a firearm meant to shoot "SHOT". "SHOT" is a bunch of individual little pellets that allow you to hunt/shoot small, moving, hard to hit animals called "BIRDS". A "SHOTGUN" shoots a large amount of little pellets that makes an acceptable "PATTERN" in that it spreads enough to assure a decent hit probability while still maintaining an acceptable kill potential. That, again, is why you "PATTERN" your gun/ammo selection ahead of time.

Shotgun beads are intended for one purpose....they tell you where the muzzle is "POINTING". Nothing more. Without a back sight, you are POINTING it. "AIMING" requires two sighted in points of reference to target a specific point of aim. POINTING means you point the barrel at the target and rely on your PATTERN to make the kill. A bead is simply to catch your eye as fast as possible and to let you sight down the barrel. Try it. You'll be surprised. That's why so many folks like glow beads, light fiber beads, white beads, ivory beads etc. In a lot of cases, aftermarket beads/sights will actually be so large they obscure the target. Again, the front bead on a shotgun is simply to catch your eye and let you know where the muzzle is pointing. You sight down the barrel. That vent rib so many shotguns have these days? Same thing. You use it to point the muzzle by sighting down the barrel. Same goes for white center stripes (anyone remember those?). A lot of hunters simply wrap a half inch wide piece of reflective tape in a full circle around the muzzle. Same idea. A lot of tactical shotgun shooters also hold the gun sideways with the ejection port pointing up....you brace the butt under your arm, not shouldered. You sight down the barrel same as before.

Yes, I fully understand the joke part about "pointing a shotgun and it'll clear a room" and all that bull****. I agree, it is bull****. Rice, above, knows enough about shotguns to joke about it. Rice, above, also knows enough to know that shotguns are intended to throw a spreaded pattern to cover an area, not to target one small point of aim. He mentioned slugs. Remember, the OP asked about a 28" bird hunting barrel. In that case, you don't even point AT THE BIRD....you learn to point at where it WILL BE and put your pattern onto that area.

You "POINT", you do not "AIM" a shotgun. To AIM requires two sighted in points of ref and a single projectile that will hit that point of aim. You can NOT sight in a bead nor can you sight in a shotgun pattern.

Apologies on the typos. Hands are giving me fits this morning. Apologies on the delay on this one, too. Lots of farm work here this time of year and I'm working my butt off.
I think we may be arguing semantics. The physical function is identical.

The presence of a rear sight or not doesn't change the fact that you're aligning your dominant eye with the barrel and front bead, after all. In rifle shooting one establishes a front sight focus just the same. That is aiming. Front sight focus on target in line with your focus.

"Aim" and "point" as you describe them are practically indistinguishable to my reading. When I shoot a shotgun, my scout rifle, or an AR, my body mechanics and eye motions are the same. I have done CQB combat courses while in the military. I learned true point shooting. It does not include a true visual of the front sight. Mind you, I'm not pulling the actual differences in the terms out of my ass, they come from pros and firearms instructors.

I've got trap trophies. I'm a little less clueless than most. Im 30 with years of shooting in competition and the military. Pro instruction included. Everyone's got their own mileage.
09-09-2019 12:40 PM
CPT_MOOSE1988 ghost rings and a blade up front for me.
09-09-2019 12:01 PM
hatchet jack I have a couple of the "Hi Viz" snap on sights on my shotguns and they do catch your eye. A shotgun is like any other gun. It works best when aimed with as much precision as you can muster when shooting at something. Most shotgun shots for me are snap shots at running or flying targets. Using the bead and having the barrel correctly aligned nets me the most hits. And some shots are just point and shoot. A missed shot at a clay bird is no big deal. A missed shot at a Turkey running across in front of you means no food.
09-09-2019 08:07 AM
randkl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vodka Wizard View Post
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt because the idea that you don't have to aim a shotgun is irresponsible and fuddlore continuously propagated by old folks too stuck in their ways.

Why even pattern your loads otherwise? Why have even a bead sight? Shooting at something with the half-hearted attempt at placement because "it's a shotgun" is silly. Aim your firearms, regardless of type.
I was giving YOU the benefit of the doubt in assuming you were young and didn't quite understand the topic. I edited my post to you three or four times before I posted exactly enough to express my opinion without insulting you.

You seem to have a bit of a prob telling those two words apart. "Aim" and "point".

In response to your question, you "pattern" a barrel with a specific ammo to get an idea of the "PATTERN" that that combo will give. You are working towards finding an acceptable "PATTERN" at a specific range with a specific type of ammo. If the "PATTERN" is too open or too ragged, you "PATTERN" a diff ammo/barrel combo until your "PATTERN" is acceptable. Yes, close in home defense range, you will want a decently tight "PATTERN"....but home defense range is only one small aspect of a "SHOTGUN". A single slug will always be better at that range. If all you want is a single deciding hit, there is no point to using anything else. Buck shot is intended to "SPREAD"....that's why it's seperate pellets. You "PATTERN" your buck to make sure it spreads enough but not TOO MUCH to ruin your "PATTERN". Am I getting that point across? Ok, let's go the opposite direction now. A "SHOTGUN" is a firearm meant to shoot "SHOT". "SHOT" is a bunch of individual little pellets that allow you to hunt/shoot small, moving, hard to hit animals called "BIRDS". A "SHOTGUN" shoots a large amount of little pellets that makes an acceptable "PATTERN" in that it spreads enough to assure a decent hit probability while still maintaining an acceptable kill potential. That, again, is why you "PATTERN" your gun/ammo selection ahead of time.

Shotgun beads are intended for one purpose....they tell you where the muzzle is "POINTING". Nothing more. Without a back sight, you are POINTING it. "AIMING" requires two sighted in points of reference to target a specific point of aim. POINTING means you point the barrel at the target and rely on your PATTERN to make the kill. A bead is simply to catch your eye as fast as possible and to let you sight down the barrel. Try it. You'll be surprised. That's why so many folks like glow beads, light fiber beads, white beads, ivory beads etc. In a lot of cases, aftermarket beads/sights will actually be so large they obscure the target. Again, the front bead on a shotgun is simply to catch your eye and let you know where the muzzle is pointing. You sight down the barrel. That vent rib so many shotguns have these days? Same thing. You use it to point the muzzle by sighting down the barrel. Same goes for white center stripes (anyone remember those?). A lot of hunters simply wrap a half inch wide piece of reflective tape in a full circle around the muzzle. Same idea. A lot of tactical shotgun shooters also hold the gun sideways with the ejection port pointing up....you brace the butt under your arm, not shouldered. You sight down the barrel same as before.

Yes, I fully understand the joke part about "pointing a shotgun and it'll clear a room" and all that bull****. I agree, it is bull****. Rice, above, knows enough about shotguns to joke about it. Rice, above, also knows enough to know that shotguns are intended to throw a spreaded pattern to cover an area, not to target one small point of aim. He mentioned slugs. Remember, the OP asked about a 28" bird hunting barrel. In that case, you don't even point AT THE BIRD....you learn to point at where it WILL BE and put your pattern onto that area.

You "POINT", you do not "AIM" a shotgun. To AIM requires two sighted in points of ref and a single projectile that will hit that point of aim. You can NOT sight in a bead nor can you sight in a shotgun pattern.

Apologies on the typos. Hands are giving me fits this morning. Apologies on the delay on this one, too. Lots of farm work here this time of year and I'm working my butt off.
09-07-2019 12:42 PM
sabotage39k I am going to say not necessary unless you end up using it for bigger game like deer. I almost exclusively hunt with a 12g (mossberg 535) and while the iron sights are sufficient enough for short ranges within 50 yards, beyond that begins to get more challenging. With a bead only even more especially at different angles. Also, the probable need for effective target engagement at night for defense would be another consideration. While there are ways to illuminate or replace front bead with something relatively inexpensive that would be sufficient for night time shooting, a good red dot can add significant benefit. So to conclude, not necessary, but will enhance capability with the right choice in optics and or advanced sights.
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