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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-14-2018 03:31 AM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17Oaks View Post
Really...

First of all I made no SPECIFIC claims other than saying I could tell what brand of smokes the guy was smoking at a very long distance. In this scenario we were to observe a small group talking in the opening of a TOC, we had to identify the people for an Intel report. I took note that an individual picked up a pack of cigs off the table and I could tell what brand it was. How far? Even the 6 Infantry officers that were testers did not know. But I did know the terrain and as an Infantry soldier it was a long ways off.

We spent 3 mo at a classified test site, 6 of us, Infantry from various installations. Our role was as users in different scenarios and each of us has a recorder who captured our data. We did this from helicopters, vehicles, moving and stationary. Where we were at was generally heavily wooded with some open valley's and cattle crazing land.

Not sure how you can ascertain exactly and specifically against what I said, since I gave no specifics as to distance.

About half of my military career was in R&D both as a developer and a test engineer.
OK, chalking you up to a BS kind of guy now.

You indeed made specific claims that you are now saying aren't claims but oh yes I did do what I claimed, even though I didn't claim it. Saying you could tell what brand a pack of cigs was from a long distance is indeed a VERY specific claim.

As I said, the current GENERAL issue NVGs for the military will NOT do what you claim. Up close sure but at some, "I don't know but it was a long way off" distance nope. Surely with your vast experience as an Infantry soldier you could have been able to narrow that vague distance claim down to an actual number range. Or was your work so classified that you will have to kill us if you divulge it?

My experience is from using military NVGs as well as owning a current generation military issue set. On top of that, until my recent retirement from Civil Service I worked with optics techs that repaired such systems.
04-13-2018 07:21 AM
Frisco85132
Quote:
Originally Posted by led4 View Post
I watched the Ferguson rioting in '14/'15 with particular interest on how the rioters behaved and how LEO responded. There were many things I picked up on. I posted those observations on another site. This in particular would relate to your question:

While the protests were loud and unruly in the evenings the worst of the violence (Looting and arson and at least 1 murder) started around 1am. By daylight and most of the rest of the morning there were no protesters on the street. This may be useful if someone had to travel through an area of unrest.
Don't take Ferguson and the Ferguson Effect as a normal LE response. Those officers were hamstrung by the mayor who, in effect, surrendered the city to the looters. In most places you should expect a much faster and definitive response, at the very least, a harder perimeter. Of course this assumes a localized event and not a world changer.

You are spot on about the looters however. There is what I like to call a "darkness paradigm" that seems to be an associative response to darkness being a cloak of anonymity for bad actors.

This is also why the best time to take out gang turds and other scum will be between 0700 and 0900 in the morning. They will be highest, most recently passed out, and their circadian rhythms will be so far out of a normal cycle that they will be at their most vulnerable.
04-13-2018 06:49 AM
17Oaks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
While I don't doubt there is some super secret HIGHLY specialized version of NVGs out there that MIGHT be able to do what you say. The VAST majority of today's Military and LE are still (at best) using Gen3+ systems (Gen4 was downgraded to 3+). Even the night sights on an M1A2 tank or SABER (replacement for TOW) anti-tank missle aren't up to what you claim.
Really...

First of all I made no SPECIFIC claims other than saying I could tell what brand of smokes the guy was smoking at a very long distance. In this scenario we were to observe a small group talking in the opening of a TOC, we had to identify the people for an Intel report. I took note that an individual picked up a pack of cigs off the table and I could tell what brand it was. How far? Even the 6 Infantry officers that were testers did not know. But I did know the terrain and as an Infantry soldier it was a long ways off.

We spent 3 mo at a classified test site, 6 of us, Infantry from various installations. Our role was as users in different scenarios and each of us has a recorder who captured our data. We did this from helicopters, vehicles, moving and stationary. Where we were at was generally heavily wooded with some open valley's and cattle crazing land.

Not sure how you can ascertain exactly and specifically against what I said, since I gave no specifics as to distance.

About half of my military career was in R&D both as a developer and a test engineer.
04-13-2018 12:23 AM
ConradCa
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcd View Post
Assuming societal sleep/wake patterns stay generally similar to what the are now, +1 for early morning. Can you imagine how long it's going to take most people to adjust to waking up without a cup of coffee? 8-) If you can adjust faster (or you have a good stash of coffee) you can leverage that as an edge in your movements.
They will be going to bed early because no electricity. So they will be getting up early.
04-13-2018 12:08 AM
Aerindel
Quote:
Then it's equally "useless" to expect good answers.
And yet...I got many of them.
04-12-2018 10:04 PM
ljcygnet This is very dependent on local situations.

Around here, I would probably move around from first light to mid morning, and again late afternoon to dark. At +/- 6000 feet sunburn is as much of an issue for people with fair skin like myself, and I have gotten blistering sunburns before up here with surprisingly little exposure and while wearing maximum strength sunblock.

A flashlight can be seen for a very long distance so I would not want to move about when it was so dark I needed one. However, on nights where there is a bright full moon I would be comfortable moving about in the dark. I do that even now.
04-12-2018 09:49 PM
Snyper708
Quote:
But nobody knows what SHTF will be so focusing on imaginary details is useless
Then it's equally "useless" to expect good answers.
If you want to talk about "theory" then just make up one you like.

Quote:
Its better to not be seen than it is to be able to see.
Until you fall and break your leg, putting you in need of help.
Details do matter, even in "theories".
04-12-2018 04:01 AM
Aerindel Pretending you know the details of the future is no better.

Everyone wants specific scenarios because those are easy to talk about. Heck, if someone knew the details they wouldn't have to think at all, the right action would always be obvious.

But nobody knows what SHTF will be so focusing on imaginary details is useless. It doesn't matter if everyone is thinking of something different because nobody knowns any details anyway.

What is useful is to develop general strategies for broad categories of situations so when those details appear you have some idea what to do with them.

This is not a question of tactics but one of theory.

And seems to have been pretty clearly answered. Its better to not be seen than it is to be able to see. And obviously if you have the means, its better to do both.
04-12-2018 03:45 AM
Snyper708
Quote:
It seems like if we did that half of every post would just end up being each person describing their definition.
If you don't do it, every post will be worthless since everyone will be thinking of something different.

Details matter and "SHTF" is a textbook example of "vague terminology".
04-12-2018 03:20 AM
Kansas_woman When I go on my secret squirrel missions, I like to do so around 3am. I'm a ghost, you will never notice me.
04-10-2018 08:31 PM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17Oaks View Post
You stated the NUMBER 1 reason WHY you don't travel at night. Tech today means there is no hiding in the bush.

Some years ago the Army sent me to to work with a company that was under contract to develop night vision devices. This was highly classified so I will provide but one comment.

In the testing phase could see you and tell what brand of cigarettes you were smoking. How war away? LONG, very long.

I can only imagine TODAY what capabilities are out there either in use or awaiting war to pull it out.

As for what time your travel? DAY! A lone man does not pose a major threat, you could be anything form some bozo lost or some guy trying to find food or water...let me suggest you leave your AK and full battle rattle behind, look like a threat, you become a threat!!!!! Under almost ANY scenario that will force me and others to leave to go to a BOL, if seen and you look like a threat you can guess what happens next...
While I don't doubt there is some super secret HIGHLY specialized version of NVGs out there that MIGHT be able to do what you say. The VAST majority of today's Military and LE are still (at best) using Gen3+ systems (Gen4 was downgraded to 3+). Even the night sights on an M1A2 tank or SABER (replacement for TOW) anti-tank missle aren't up to what you claim.
04-10-2018 08:21 PM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevy762x39 View Post
My plans are a thermal monocular and travel at night, I hope to have a solar charger that I can charge the batteries for the thermal off of. Id do my best to find a place to sleep before day break, cook my food quick, then keep a look out until about 12 noon. sleep for about 6 hours or less, get up and keep it moving. I have also ordered perimeter alarms from Ebay that Id have set up in whatever area I choose to rest. They set off a 209 primer. LOUD!!
Problem with that is now whoever set it off knows there is something/someone in the area as well. A preferable alarm would alert you without simultaneously alerting the others.
04-10-2018 08:18 PM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
THINK of the direction you will be traveling in and then plan accordingly so the sun is to your back. Anyone looking for you will be looking into the sun, can't do that for long.

Otherwise it depends on your night vision (your own or enhanced)

ME, I have always been a night stalker. I am very comfortable in the dark and even now my hearing is acute and night vision is excellent (must be working all those years of night shifts.)

NEVER fear the night... FEAR what hunts in the night.
Unless they are stalking you from behind. In which case you are perfectly illuminated and they are the ones hidden.

As others have said it varies by the situation.
04-10-2018 12:11 PM
NW GUY THINK of the direction you will be traveling in and then plan accordingly so the sun is to your back. Anyone looking for you will be looking into the sun, can't do that for long.

Otherwise it depends on your night vision (your own or enhanced)

ME, I have always been a night stalker. I am very comfortable in the dark and even now my hearing is acute and night vision is excellent (must be working all those years of night shifts.)

NEVER fear the night... FEAR what hunts in the night.
04-10-2018 11:35 AM
Katiecoupon13 Defitnitly think like others have said it's situational..and depends on many factors..
I'd probably move when most ppl were asleep if danger was possible early am hours...
Hx channel did a show last night on this from Vietnam I believe where gis learned to travel early dawn when enemy was sleep and when u had to hold up like someone above mentioned the tin cans rocks and line to create a noise if someone approached was used as alert system.
History is really something to learn from.
02-02-2018 11:30 PM
Chevy762x39 My plans are a thermal monocular and travel at night, I hope to have a solar charger that I can charge the batteries for the thermal off of. Id do my best to find a place to sleep before day break, cook my food quick, then keep a look out until about 12 noon. sleep for about 6 hours or less, get up and keep it moving. I have also ordered perimeter alarms from Ebay that Id have set up in whatever area I choose to rest. They set off a 209 primer. LOUD!!
01-03-2018 10:30 AM
led4
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstang01 View Post
I'd like to read those observations if possible. Can you post them here with a link please?

Michael
OK, here you go, in the Urban Survival forum:

https://www.survivalistboards.com/sho...0#post17195330
12-31-2017 07:02 PM
John Rambo I vote anywhere between 4am and 7am. By 7am people are just starting to stir. I noticed this in campgrounds. I would also add during extreme weather conditions while others are just seeking shelter would be another good time to operate.
12-27-2017 12:21 PM
mrstang01 I'd like to read those observations if possible. Can you post them here with a link please?

Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by led4 View Post
I watched the Ferguson rioting in '14/'15 with particular interest on how the rioters behaved and how LEO responded. There were many things I picked up on. I posted those observations on another site. This in particular would relate to your question:

While the protests were loud and unruly in the evenings the worst of the violence (Looting and arson and at least 1 murder) started around 1am. By daylight and most of the rest of the morning there were no protesters on the street. This may be useful if someone had to travel through an area of unrest.
12-27-2017 12:04 PM
smithkowitz When do animals go out foraging/scouting/hunting . . . why? Think like the animal you need to be for the circumstance you need to fulfill.
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