Survivalist Forum - Reply to Topic
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Firearms General Discussion Rifles, pistols, shotguns, scopes, grips and everything in between.

Advertise Here
Thread: Home Arsenal Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
12-19-2014 09:15 PM
jknova
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighanded View Post
agreed...there's certainly no such thing as an "arsenal" around my house, but let one bad event happen that would cause the cops to enter a home and find a shotgun, a pistol and more than one box of ammo..and oh my the drama...the cops found an arsenal!!! news at 11
Yep, at least in New York.

http://nypost.com/2014/05/16/cops-fi...lyn-apartment/

Headline: "Cops find arsenal of guns, swords in Brooklyn apartment"

The following was owned by the four men who lived in the apartment. The article doesn't say who owns what.

Cops recovered a 9 MM Highpoint Rifle with a defaced serial number, one 380 Cal loaded semi-automatic handgun, a 357 revolver, as well as a 38 caliber revolver.
Police also found 50 rounds of 45 caiberl ammunition, 50 rounds of 9MM ammunition, 67 rounds of 347 caliber ammunition, 50 rounds of 38 caliber ammunition, 17 rounds of 380 caliber ammunition, and a 45 caliber magazine.
As if that wasn’t enough, cops also recovered eight swords, one machete, some nunchakus and eight Codeine tablets, cops said.
“It was enough to arm a small army or militia,” a police source said of the bust. “These guys were ready for war.”


War! One guy carries a 9mm Hi Point carbine and their 50 rounds of 9mm! Each other guy carries a handgun: one has a .357 and "67 rounds of 347 caliber ammunition," another has the .38 with 50 rounds, and the last guy has a .380 semi-auto and 17 rounds of ammunition.

If that's not enough, this fearsome military force also has a .45 caliber magazine and a box of .45 ammunition! They don't have a .45 gun, but they have a magazine!! Who knows, maybe these diabolical war criminals were thinking about getting a FIFTH gun, which would be more than one gun per man!

When they are done destroying the U.S. Army with these doomsday weapons, they will mop up the Marines with their nunchuks! Then they'll each take two codeine tablets in frenzied celebration!

Imagine if they took their guns and all of this ammunition to a shooting range! They'd be able to shoot for minutes and minutes! The guy with the "347" might be able to shoot for an hour if he takes his time!



Other than the defaced serial number, I'm unclear what they were charged with, or why the police were investigating to begin with. Their "arsenal" was paltry. This is like a college kid's gun collection.

I had that many guns and more ammunition than that in the back of my car tonight when I stopped at the grocery store.
12-19-2014 09:10 PM
Baddogg5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick View Post
I thought the first rule of prepping was you do not talk about prepping & the second rule of prepping was YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT PREPPING
didn't know there was a Prep Cub

His name is Robert Paulsen
12-19-2014 09:07 PM
jknova
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
Technically none of us have arsenals unless we are producing arms or munitions.
Some of us do produce munitions

But, I wouldn't call a garage workbench an "arsenal," either.
12-19-2014 01:35 PM
bighanded
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
Technically none of us have arsenals unless we are producing arms or munitions. For us it is either a collection or if really a lot of police or military weapons an armory. Armory is where weapons are stored and perhaps maintained.
Probably listing legally owned rifles and pistols is not going to do anyone harm. I would be somewhat careful about listing anything that I got from a private sale without paper work, but so what if the NSA and homeland security know. People like most of us that buy considerable amounts of ammo on the internet are not secret. Credit card records and also company sales records at places like midway live for years as stored data. If worried, for local purchases never use your credit card to buy anything that you want kept unknown.
agreed...there's certainly no such thing as an "arsenal" around my house, but let one bad event happen that would cause the cops to enter a home and find a shotgun, a pistol and more than one box of ammo..and oh my the drama...the cops found an arsenal!!! news at 11
12-19-2014 01:20 PM
barnetmill
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshSelf View Post
Sadly the only break action I have is a 410 and it would only be able to take a .22 adapter. I have been looking into a 12 gauge for a while.
A break upon .410 single shot can be loaded in way to make it at very close ranges the equal of a large bore rifle. The commercial loads that do this are expensive I do not have a link. There is also the old cut shell technique where the whole front of the plastic or paper shell (shot charge, wad, front part of shell casing go down range). Things like this were done for people here in the past when times were hard and other firearms were not available to poorer people that were trying to survive. There are some you tube videos on this this technique by Iraqiverteran8888 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3M46XVfVOU
In the .410 video they do some things with big bore rifle ammo that were incredible. I do not advocate any of these practices except when there is not another choice for survival. This basically FYI only
The lost art of "Cut Shells" for .410 Iraqveteran8888 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-lyk1WyyJ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAnbDvLIAac
12-19-2014 12:57 PM
barnetmill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
Arsenal? or collection
Technically none of us have arsenals unless we are producing arms or munitions. For us it is either a collection or if really a lot of police or military weapons an armory. Armory is where weapons are stored and perhaps maintained.
Probably listing legally owned rifles and pistols is not going to do anyone harm. I would be somewhat careful about listing anything that I got from a private sale without paper work, but so what if the NSA and homeland security know. People like most of us that buy considerable amounts of ammo on the internet are not secret. Credit card records and also company sales records at places like midway live for years as stored data. If worried, for local purchases never use your credit card to buy anything that you want kept unknown.
12-19-2014 12:42 PM
Jerry D Young
Quote:
Originally Posted by sert556 View Post
my grandfather supplied 50% of our meat with a meager assortment (the other half was raised) and protected all of us with the same.
he had two .22lr
a .410
a .12
a 30-30
and a .38 handgun.

how ever did we survive.
Another case of one of my lists being taken as an absolute set of must haves. This one, as with most, is not a must have list. It is a set of possibilities, to provide information on what can be, not what must be. To get people to think about possibilities. All would be nice to have, for many people, but few will need all of them, and very few will be able to afford all of them, myself included.

Plus, it does address a PAW situation, not the Depression or simple hard times living where food on the table is primary, and risk of attack by desperate, starving people, or gangs, in WROL situations is not a factor.

My father took care of us, and we put food on the table for most of my childhood with a Remington 878 3-round semi-auto shotgun and a CZ-27 .32 ACP pistol liberated from a German officer in WW II, and a .22RF single shot rifle.

We did not have to worry about drug gangs being out in the woods where we hunted, or gang bangers in the streets getting to the woods, or UN troops just looking for an excuse to disarm, beat, and incarcerate us, or any other of the possibilities that will occur when civilization as we know it comes to a screeching halt.

So, to wrap it up, more power to those that can take care of themselves and their family, protect them from the bad guys, and put food on the table during the PAW with next to nothing. Could I do it? I think so. I sure do not have everything on the list, so I will have to try with what I do have. That fact does not stop me from thinking through all the possibilities I might face, and come up with the best way to deal with each one.

Just my opinion.
12-19-2014 09:43 AM
bighanded as for primitive weapons...depends..some of us live out in the sticks...we have some plausible reasons for a bow, a saw blade, etc...I keep, enjoy, hunt, trail cut etc a number of these tools..and yet most of them are not on my bugout checklist...if I had to leave here...it's a very bad day and I don't expect to last long enough to find myself having burned through my other resources and running around in bear skins, leaping from tree to cliff and hunting the last lone deer.
12-19-2014 09:39 AM
bighanded cut him some slack boys...

1) he's fairly new to the forum
2) he's, like a lot of us, interested in firearms which has spurred his thinking about preparedness..
3) he's from Ohio (my home state)

yeah Josh, I can look back at hurricanes, ice storms, even 9/11 as things that impacted my thinking about prepping, but honestly, when i finally found myself getting into gun collecting .. it seemed to motivate the whole package of zombie prepping.

now, guns have always been in the family home..grandad, dad...hunting as a casual sport, some target fun going back to boy scouts days.
and Dad having a shotgun, a lever rifle, a 22bolt and a pistol always seemed plenty well rounded...and yet I'd find myself at my rich uncle's house standing in front of his big wooden decorative gun cabinet admiring his guns all lined up in a row.

still, those basic guns of my Dad's seemed to be enough for many years..one was even pressed into service for catching a burglar one night...he went back to jail.

but when my occupation changed and i found myself among guys who all carried and they started to get me enthused ...well, things ramped up from there just a bit...still, nothing like a lot of guys i know.

I believe a well rounded tool box should include a shotgun, rifle, and handgun.

your caliber and capacity..? folks will argue that forever.
12-19-2014 09:24 AM
sert556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
My thoughts on a weapons battery and why:


1. Main Battle Rifle (MBR) - .308 in a folding stock PTR-91. .308 because it will do just about everything the M-16/M-4, AK-47/74, and SKS platforms in 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 will, just not quite as well for a couple of things, plus it can do things those platforms and cartridges can’t. Can also hunt most North American big game, and small game with .32 ACP adapters. PTR-91 because it is somewhat cheaper than the competitors and the magazines (right now, anyway) are only $2 - $6 for good used alloy ones. Next choice is M1A, but it is more expensive all the way around. Minimum of 3 load outs of magazines, dependent on your LBE. 1,000 rounds per gun.

Many will say you don't need an MBR round in urban areas because of ranges. I disagree. There are long open stretches along streets, and if the attackers have long range weapons and you don't, you are pretty much out of luck and can be harassed until the attackers get close enough to take you out. Plus the penetration is much better with .308 for those that think they are under cover when it is only concealment to the .308.

Why no light combat rifle? (M-16/M-4 types, AK-47/74 types, and SKS platforms in 7.62x39, 6.8, 6.5, 5.56, 5.45x39) They tend to be lighter than MBRs, but only somewhat for some of them. Others are quite a bit lighter, as is the ammunition. One can carry more ammunition, yes. But it is not as effective as .308 by a long shot. Doesn’t have the range, when needed, of the .308. And though one can carry more ammunition with the lighter calibers, it boils down to how many targets can you successfully engage with that ammunition load? Where it often takes 2, 3, 4, or more rounds of 5.56 to successfully engage and put down an attacker due to cover, body armor, deflection of the round, and several other reasons, 1 or 2, occasionally 3 rounds of .308 is likely to take down that same adversary. 210 rounds standard load, divided by 3 is 70 targets engaged. 180 rounds (my standard load of .308 for the PTR-91) divided by 2 is 90 targets engaged. Now, there are a tremendous number of variables when it comes to targets engaged. But in aimed, controlled fire, I think the .308 has the lead. In spray and pray, or heavy suppressive fire, the 5.56 et al probably do.

2. Primary self defense handgun - .45 ACP in Glock 21SF. .45 ACP because it will get the job done quiet effectively with reliable FMJ rounds with moderate recoil in a practical size. Readily available ammunition. Glock 21SF for magazine capacity in .45 ACP and low cost. Next choice is ParaOrdnance P-14, but it is more expensive all the way around. 12 magazines. Minimum of 500 rounds.

3. Dual purpose shotgun – 12 gauge in Remington 11-87 26” barrel w/Poly-choke and various tactical accessories. 12 gauge because of readily available ammunition, it is most effective in most situations including hunting. 11-87 because it is semi-auto which helps reduce recoil, can use many different loads due to the gas system (26” barrels up only. Short barrels don’t have the gas compensation system), and is faster on follow-up aimed shots than pumps for most people. Next choice is the same gun w/o the tactical additions. Minimum of 500 rounds mixed 00 buck/slugs, 500 rounds mixed hunting rounds.

4. Sniping/hunting gun – Remington 700 .30-’06 with Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10 x 40mm. .30-’06 will take all but the largest most dangerous game at long range. Adequate sniping weapon at ranges up to ~600 yards. Availability of ammunition. Can use .32 ACP and/or .30 Carbine for small game very quietly with chamber adapter. Why .30-’06 instead of .308? Because it gives two calibers, both of which are acceptable hunting and defense calibers. Ammunition for hunting would be purchased for either weapon, so you would have the same number of rounds in either case. 5 magazines, 400 rounds sniping rounds, 400 rounds mixed hunting rounds.

5. Hideout handgun - .32 ACP in Beretta Tomcat. .32 ACP because it is useable in .30 caliber rifles as a small game load with the use of chamber adapters. Minimum power for self defense in semi-auto pistols. Tomcat because of its small size, quality, and price. 9 magazines. 250 defensive rounds, 250 for hunting in the .30-'06.

6. Secondary self defense handgun - .45 ACP in Glock 30SF. Slightly smaller package that will take 9 & 10 round magazines for better concealment plus Model 21 13-round magazines. Next Choice is ParaOrdnance P-10 Warthog, but it is more expensive all the way around. 2 9-round, 4 10-round, 6 additional 21 SF 13-round magazines. Additional 250 rounds ammunition.

7. Dangerous/large game/light anti-materiel rifle - .375 H&H Magnum in Remington 700 bolt action. .375 H&H magnum for availability, and proven record on big, dangerous game. Moderately effective anti-material round. Better dual purpose round than smaller rounds and the bigger magnums because of recoil, availability, and cost. Remington 700 because of price and the fact that it is repeater, which is important in big/dangerous game and anti-material use. 5 magazines. 400 rounds anti-material rounds, 200 hunting rounds.

9. Hand-out gun(s) – Auto Ordnance.30 Carbine in M1 Carbine. .30 Carbine because it is small and light, works in a small frame box magazine semi-auto gun, has ballistics at 200 yards slightly better than .357 Magnum at the muzzle. M1 Carbine because it is light, handy, easy to handle, and more accurate in unskilled hands than a full power handgun or rifle. Also not too expensive for the carbines, magazines, and ammunition. 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun, 200 hunting rounds for the .30-'06

10. Personal Defense Weapon (PDR) – PDR for primarily non-combatants. Same as the hand-out gun for all the same reasons. Small enough and light enough to keep slung when doing many tasks, unlike full power weapons. Pistols are ‘handier’ in that they are smaller and lighter, but inexperienced shooters seem to handle a light carbine more effectively than a pistol. 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun.

11. Get-home-bag/trunk gun – Again the .30 Carbine, this time with a folding stock. For most of the same reasons above. There are guns that compact as much or more than a folding stock .30 Carbine, but most have a much larger profile and the gun and ammunition are heavier and bulkier. Some that seem ideal I don’t trust to be reliable. (Not a BOB or GOOD or INCH bag – they call for an MBR in my opinion) 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun.

12. Long Ranger sniper/anti-material rifle – Vigilance VR-1 .408 Cheytac because of its effectiveness at long ranges for both anti-personnel and anti-materiel sniping. VR-1 because it’s light for the caliber (18#), semi-auto. .408 Cheytac due to its effectiveness compared to the .50 BMG and .416 Barrett, and the fact that it is available in lighter and easier to handle weapons. Very expensive. 5 magazines. 600 rounds of ammunition

Why no .22 LR or other rimfires – Simply because they cannot be reloaded. When you’re out of ammunition, you are out of ammunition. They are so common that finding one post-disaster shouldn’t be much of a problem. Same with the ammunition early on, and then, when it’s all gone, they aren’t useable. For hunting, using a .32 ACP chamber adapter in a .308 or .30-’06 bolt action rifle provides for near silent small game hunting. The .30 M1 Carbines can do pretty much substitute for a .22 rim fire rifle or carbine will do and the rounds are reloadable.

13. Black powder cartridge arms - .45-70 in Marlin 1895, .45 Colt in Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible, .32-20 in Ruger Blackhawk & Marlin 1894 rifle. .45-70 because it is the most plentiful of the big bore black powder cartridges is powerful enough for any American big game at short ranges. Marlin because of quality. .45 Colt because it is the most common powerful black powder hand gun cartridge easily available. Ruger for the same reason as the Marlin. .32-20 because it is a better small game cartridge than the .45-70 or .45 Colt, and available in Ruger and Marlin firearms. 1,000 rounds each caliber each gun.

14. Blackpowder muzzle loaders - .58 caliber flintlock rifle, .58 caliber flintlock handgun (x3), .32 flintlock rifle, 12 gauge flintlock shotgun. Flintlock because black powder, including ffff for priming, can be made, and bullets cast from scrap lead. .58 caliber rifle and pistol for bullet interchangeability. Any good quality brand for availability, quality, and cost. .32 for small game, 12 gauge for maximum power. Loading supplies for 1,000 shots each caliber for each gun.

15. Archery weapons – When quiet is needed and there are no suppressors for the firearms, archery weapons come into their own. While the high tech ones have some of the same disadvantages of firearms, such as available ammunition (arrows, points, nocks, shafts, and fletching) more primitive designs can be home made and can be effective enough to hunt with and even for defense in some cases.
Bear Carnage Compound Bow using Easton ST Axis Full Metal Jacket Dangerous Game arrows with MUZZY 4 blade broad heads 145gr regular compound bow or a Barnett Predator AVI compound Crossbow using Easton XX75 bolts with MUZZY 4 blade broadhead 145gr for a compound cross bow.

16. Expedient weapons/defenses:
Here creativity becomes the watch word. Most things can be used as a weapon, many that are innocuous enough to not get you in trouble if you carry them. A good hiking staff or walking stick, to a roll of dimes in a fist, to keys held through the fingers, and on and on and on. Any search on the internet for expedient weapons will find all kinds of examples. One particular one that I like isn’t an offensive weapon. It is pretty much defensive. That is a small, lightly weighted throw net. It can be carried in a pocket ready to deploy, or even in the hand, and with a flick of the arm and wrist, (after lots of practice) it can entangle an aggressor enough, for long enough, to do harm to them if required, or two get away.


17. Sharps:
Every Day Carry - City:
Leatherman or Cold Steel folding pocket knife
Gentleman’s Swiss Army Knife

Every Day Carry – Field (in addition to the above):
Leatherman Surge Multi-tool
Wenger Survivor or Victorinox Rucksack SAK
Spyderco C08 Harpy one hand opening serrated hawk blade ‘get out of trouble’ folder kept clipped where it is easy one hand access for emergency use.

Concurrent to the first 5 weapons:
Edged weapons:
Ontario Knife OKC-3S bayonet (for PTR-91 & Remington 11-87)(Yes, they will fit with the adapters I have) (Have)
Cold Steel Oda field knife (Have 2)
Cold Steel Rifleman’s tomahawk (Have)
Cold Steel 24” Latin machete (Have)

Concurrent with the Black powder cartridge arms.
Cold Steel 1860 heavy cavalry saber (want)
Cold Steel Natchez Bowie Knife (want)

Just my opinion.
my grandfather supplied 50% of our meat with a meager assortment (the other half was raised) and protected all of us with the same.
he had two .22lr
a .410
a .12
a 30-30
and a .38 handgun.

how ever did we survive.
12-19-2014 08:10 AM
JoshSelf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick View Post
For this & all those "what one gun" threads I constantly read.

Double barreled 12G. a slug will take big game & shot will handle everything else. They even make adapters for common calibers to shoot a variety of bullets.

If i had nothing else, That is what I would want with me 24/7.
Sadly the only break action I have is a 410 and it would only be able to take a .22 adapter. I have been looking into a 12 gauge for a while.
12-18-2014 10:19 PM
Hick For this & all those "what one gun" threads I constantly read.

Double barreled 12G. a slug will take big game & shot will handle everything else. They even make adapters for common calibers to shoot a variety of bullets.

If i had nothing else, That is what I would want with me 24/7.
12-18-2014 05:16 PM
Eugene I have a Smith and Wesson M&P 9C. I little bigger than the Shield so it can have more rounds but not as big as a full size so I can still conceal it.
I have a Smith and Wesson M&P 22 which is pretty close to the 9c in dimensions and handling.
Then my AR7 for small game and an old H&R rifle/shotgun combo which youth sized to cut down on weight.
If things really get bad my grate grandfathers muzzleloader.
12-18-2014 05:08 PM
Jerry D Young That is the missing #8. lol

Just my opinion.
12-18-2014 05:02 PM
Hick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry D Young View Post
My thoughts on a weapons battery and why:


1. Main Battle Rifle (MBR) - .308 in a folding stock PTR-91. .308 because it will do just about everything the M-16/M-4, AK-47/74, and SKS platforms in 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 will, just not quite as well for a couple of things, plus it can do things those platforms and cartridges can’t. Can also hunt most North American big game, and small game with .32 ACP adapters. PTR-91 because it is somewhat cheaper than the competitors and the magazines (right now, anyway) are only $2 - $6 for good used alloy ones. Next choice is M1A, but it is more expensive all the way around. Minimum of 3 load outs of magazines, dependent on your LBE. 1,000 rounds per gun.

Many will say you don't need an MBR round in urban areas because of ranges. I disagree. There are long open stretches along streets, and if the attackers have long range weapons and you don't, you are pretty much out of luck and can be harassed until the attackers get close enough to take you out. Plus the penetration is much better with .308 for those that think they are under cover when it is only concealment to the .308.

Why no light combat rifle? (M-16/M-4 types, AK-47/74 types, and SKS platforms in 7.62x39, 6.8, 6.5, 5.56, 5.45x39) They tend to be lighter than MBRs, but only somewhat for some of them. Others are quite a bit lighter, as is the ammunition. One can carry more ammunition, yes. But it is not as effective as .308 by a long shot. Doesn’t have the range, when needed, of the .308. And though one can carry more ammunition with the lighter calibers, it boils down to how many targets can you successfully engage with that ammunition load? Where it often takes 2, 3, 4, or more rounds of 5.56 to successfully engage and put down an attacker due to cover, body armor, deflection of the round, and several other reasons, 1 or 2, occasionally 3 rounds of .308 is likely to take down that same adversary. 210 rounds standard load, divided by 3 is 70 targets engaged. 180 rounds (my standard load of .308 for the PTR-91) divided by 2 is 90 targets engaged. Now, there are a tremendous number of variables when it comes to targets engaged. But in aimed, controlled fire, I think the .308 has the lead. In spray and pray, or heavy suppressive fire, the 5.56 et al probably do.

2. Primary self defense handgun - .45 ACP in Glock 21SF. .45 ACP because it will get the job done quiet effectively with reliable FMJ rounds with moderate recoil in a practical size. Readily available ammunition. Glock 21SF for magazine capacity in .45 ACP and low cost. Next choice is ParaOrdnance P-14, but it is more expensive all the way around. 12 magazines. Minimum of 500 rounds.

3. Dual purpose shotgun – 12 gauge in Remington 11-87 26” barrel w/Poly-choke and various tactical accessories. 12 gauge because of readily available ammunition, it is most effective in most situations including hunting. 11-87 because it is semi-auto which helps reduce recoil, can use many different loads due to the gas system (26” barrels up only. Short barrels don’t have the gas compensation system), and is faster on follow-up aimed shots than pumps for most people. Next choice is the same gun w/o the tactical additions. Minimum of 500 rounds mixed 00 buck/slugs, 500 rounds mixed hunting rounds.

4. Sniping/hunting gun – Remington 700 .30-’06 with Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10 x 40mm. .30-’06 will take all but the largest most dangerous game at long range. Adequate sniping weapon at ranges up to ~600 yards. Availability of ammunition. Can use .32 ACP and/or .30 Carbine for small game very quietly with chamber adapter. Why .30-’06 instead of .308? Because it gives two calibers, both of which are acceptable hunting and defense calibers. Ammunition for hunting would be purchased for either weapon, so you would have the same number of rounds in either case. 5 magazines, 400 rounds sniping rounds, 400 rounds mixed hunting rounds.

5. Hideout handgun - .32 ACP in Beretta Tomcat. .32 ACP because it is useable in .30 caliber rifles as a small game load with the use of chamber adapters. Minimum power for self defense in semi-auto pistols. Tomcat because of its small size, quality, and price. 9 magazines. 250 defensive rounds, 250 for hunting in the .30-'06.

6. Secondary self defense handgun - .45 ACP in Glock 30SF. Slightly smaller package that will take 9 & 10 round magazines for better concealment plus Model 21 13-round magazines. Next Choice is ParaOrdnance P-10 Warthog, but it is more expensive all the way around. 2 9-round, 4 10-round, 6 additional 21 SF 13-round magazines. Additional 250 rounds ammunition.

7. Dangerous/large game/light anti-materiel rifle - .375 H&H Magnum in Remington 700 bolt action. .375 H&H magnum for availability, and proven record on big, dangerous game. Moderately effective anti-material round. Better dual purpose round than smaller rounds and the bigger magnums because of recoil, availability, and cost. Remington 700 because of price and the fact that it is repeater, which is important in big/dangerous game and anti-material use. 5 magazines. 400 rounds anti-material rounds, 200 hunting rounds.

9. Hand-out gun(s) – Auto Ordnance.30 Carbine in M1 Carbine. .30 Carbine because it is small and light, works in a small frame box magazine semi-auto gun, has ballistics at 200 yards slightly better than .357 Magnum at the muzzle. M1 Carbine because it is light, handy, easy to handle, and more accurate in unskilled hands than a full power handgun or rifle. Also not too expensive for the carbines, magazines, and ammunition. 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun, 200 hunting rounds for the .30-'06

10. Personal Defense Weapon (PDR) – PDR for primarily non-combatants. Same as the hand-out gun for all the same reasons. Small enough and light enough to keep slung when doing many tasks, unlike full power weapons. Pistols are ‘handier’ in that they are smaller and lighter, but inexperienced shooters seem to handle a light carbine more effectively than a pistol. 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun.

11. Get-home-bag/trunk gun – Again the .30 Carbine, this time with a folding stock. For most of the same reasons above. There are guns that compact as much or more than a folding stock .30 Carbine, but most have a much larger profile and the gun and ammunition are heavier and bulkier. Some that seem ideal I don’t trust to be reliable. (Not a BOB or GOOD or INCH bag – they call for an MBR in my opinion) 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun.

12. Long Ranger sniper/anti-material rifle – Vigilance VR-1 .408 Cheytac because of its effectiveness at long ranges for both anti-personnel and anti-materiel sniping. VR-1 because it’s light for the caliber (18#), semi-auto. .408 Cheytac due to its effectiveness compared to the .50 BMG and .416 Barrett, and the fact that it is available in lighter and easier to handle weapons. Very expensive. 5 magazines. 600 rounds of ammunition

Why no .22 LR or other rimfires – Simply because they cannot be reloaded. When you’re out of ammunition, you are out of ammunition. They are so common that finding one post-disaster shouldn’t be much of a problem. Same with the ammunition early on, and then, when it’s all gone, they aren’t useable. For hunting, using a .32 ACP chamber adapter in a .308 or .30-’06 bolt action rifle provides for near silent small game hunting. The .30 M1 Carbines can do pretty much substitute for a .22 rim fire rifle or carbine will do and the rounds are reloadable.

13. Black powder cartridge arms - .45-70 in Marlin 1895, .45 Colt in Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible, .32-20 in Ruger Blackhawk & Marlin 1894 rifle. .45-70 because it is the most plentiful of the big bore black powder cartridges is powerful enough for any American big game at short ranges. Marlin because of quality. .45 Colt because it is the most common powerful black powder hand gun cartridge easily available. Ruger for the same reason as the Marlin. .32-20 because it is a better small game cartridge than the .45-70 or .45 Colt, and available in Ruger and Marlin firearms. 1,000 rounds each caliber each gun.

14. Blackpowder muzzle loaders - .58 caliber flintlock rifle, .58 caliber flintlock handgun (x3), .32 flintlock rifle, 12 gauge flintlock shotgun. Flintlock because black powder, including ffff for priming, can be made, and bullets cast from scrap lead. .58 caliber rifle and pistol for bullet interchangeability. Any good quality brand for availability, quality, and cost. .32 for small game, 12 gauge for maximum power. Loading supplies for 1,000 shots each caliber for each gun.

15. Archery weapons – When quiet is needed and there are no suppressors for the firearms, archery weapons come into their own. While the high tech ones have some of the same disadvantages of firearms, such as available ammunition (arrows, points, nocks, shafts, and fletching) more primitive designs can be home made and can be effective enough to hunt with and even for defense in some cases.
Bear Carnage Compound Bow using Easton ST Axis Full Metal Jacket Dangerous Game arrows with MUZZY 4 blade broad heads 145gr regular compound bow or a Barnett Predator AVI compound Crossbow using Easton XX75 bolts with MUZZY 4 blade broadhead 145gr for a compound cross bow.

16. Expedient weapons/defenses:
Here creativity becomes the watch word. Most things can be used as a weapon, many that are innocuous enough to not get you in trouble if you carry them. A good hiking staff or walking stick, to a roll of dimes in a fist, to keys held through the fingers, and on and on and on. Any search on the internet for expedient weapons will find all kinds of examples. One particular one that I like isn’t an offensive weapon. It is pretty much defensive. That is a small, lightly weighted throw net. It can be carried in a pocket ready to deploy, or even in the hand, and with a flick of the arm and wrist, (after lots of practice) it can entangle an aggressor enough, for long enough, to do harm to them if required, or two get away.


17. Sharps:
Every Day Carry - City:
Leatherman or Cold Steel folding pocket knife
Gentleman’s Swiss Army Knife

Every Day Carry – Field (in addition to the above):
Leatherman Surge Multi-tool
Wenger Survivor or Victorinox Rucksack SAK
Spyderco C08 Harpy one hand opening serrated hawk blade ‘get out of trouble’ folder kept clipped where it is easy one hand access for emergency use.

Concurrent to the first 5 weapons:
Edged weapons:
Ontario Knife OKC-3S bayonet (for PTR-91 & Remington 11-87)(Yes, they will fit with the adapters I have) (Have)
Cold Steel Oda field knife (Have 2)
Cold Steel Rifleman’s tomahawk (Have)
Cold Steel 24” Latin machete (Have)

Concurrent with the Black powder cartridge arms.
Cold Steel 1860 heavy cavalry saber (want)
Cold Steel Natchez Bowie Knife (want)

Just my opinion.
You forgot the phased plasma rifle, in the 40 watt range.
12-18-2014 04:38 PM
Jerry D Young My thoughts on a weapons battery and why:


1. Main Battle Rifle (MBR) - .308 in a folding stock PTR-91. .308 because it will do just about everything the M-16/M-4, AK-47/74, and SKS platforms in 5.56, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 will, just not quite as well for a couple of things, plus it can do things those platforms and cartridges can’t. Can also hunt most North American big game, and small game with .32 ACP adapters. PTR-91 because it is somewhat cheaper than the competitors and the magazines (right now, anyway) are only $2 - $6 for good used alloy ones. Next choice is M1A, but it is more expensive all the way around. Minimum of 3 load outs of magazines, dependent on your LBE. 1,000 rounds per gun.

Many will say you don't need an MBR round in urban areas because of ranges. I disagree. There are long open stretches along streets, and if the attackers have long range weapons and you don't, you are pretty much out of luck and can be harassed until the attackers get close enough to take you out. Plus the penetration is much better with .308 for those that think they are under cover when it is only concealment to the .308.

Why no light combat rifle? (M-16/M-4 types, AK-47/74 types, and SKS platforms in 7.62x39, 6.8, 6.5, 5.56, 5.45x39) They tend to be lighter than MBRs, but only somewhat for some of them. Others are quite a bit lighter, as is the ammunition. One can carry more ammunition, yes. But it is not as effective as .308 by a long shot. Doesn’t have the range, when needed, of the .308. And though one can carry more ammunition with the lighter calibers, it boils down to how many targets can you successfully engage with that ammunition load? Where it often takes 2, 3, 4, or more rounds of 5.56 to successfully engage and put down an attacker due to cover, body armor, deflection of the round, and several other reasons, 1 or 2, occasionally 3 rounds of .308 is likely to take down that same adversary. 210 rounds standard load, divided by 3 is 70 targets engaged. 180 rounds (my standard load of .308 for the PTR-91) divided by 2 is 90 targets engaged. Now, there are a tremendous number of variables when it comes to targets engaged. But in aimed, controlled fire, I think the .308 has the lead. In spray and pray, or heavy suppressive fire, the 5.56 et al probably do.

2. Primary self defense handgun - .45 ACP in Glock 21SF. .45 ACP because it will get the job done quiet effectively with reliable FMJ rounds with moderate recoil in a practical size. Readily available ammunition. Glock 21SF for magazine capacity in .45 ACP and low cost. Next choice is ParaOrdnance P-14, but it is more expensive all the way around. 12 magazines. Minimum of 500 rounds.

3. Dual purpose shotgun – 12 gauge in Remington 11-87 26” barrel w/Poly-choke and various tactical accessories. 12 gauge because of readily available ammunition, it is most effective in most situations including hunting. 11-87 because it is semi-auto which helps reduce recoil, can use many different loads due to the gas system (26” barrels up only. Short barrels don’t have the gas compensation system), and is faster on follow-up aimed shots than pumps for most people. Next choice is the same gun w/o the tactical additions. Minimum of 500 rounds mixed 00 buck/slugs, 500 rounds mixed hunting rounds.

4. Sniping/hunting gun – Remington 700 .30-’06 with Bushnell Elite 4200 2.5-10 x 40mm. .30-’06 will take all but the largest most dangerous game at long range. Adequate sniping weapon at ranges up to ~600 yards. Availability of ammunition. Can use .32 ACP and/or .30 Carbine for small game very quietly with chamber adapter. Why .30-’06 instead of .308? Because it gives two calibers, both of which are acceptable hunting and defense calibers. Ammunition for hunting would be purchased for either weapon, so you would have the same number of rounds in either case. 5 magazines, 400 rounds sniping rounds, 400 rounds mixed hunting rounds.

5. Hideout handgun - .32 ACP in Beretta Tomcat. .32 ACP because it is useable in .30 caliber rifles as a small game load with the use of chamber adapters. Minimum power for self defense in semi-auto pistols. Tomcat because of its small size, quality, and price. 9 magazines. 250 defensive rounds, 250 for hunting in the .30-'06.

6. Secondary self defense handgun - .45 ACP in Glock 30SF. Slightly smaller package that will take 9 & 10 round magazines for better concealment plus Model 21 13-round magazines. Next Choice is ParaOrdnance P-10 Warthog, but it is more expensive all the way around. 2 9-round, 4 10-round, 6 additional 21 SF 13-round magazines. Additional 250 rounds ammunition.

7. Dangerous/large game/light anti-materiel rifle - .375 H&H Magnum in Remington 700 bolt action. .375 H&H magnum for availability, and proven record on big, dangerous game. Moderately effective anti-material round. Better dual purpose round than smaller rounds and the bigger magnums because of recoil, availability, and cost. Remington 700 because of price and the fact that it is repeater, which is important in big/dangerous game and anti-material use. 5 magazines. 400 rounds anti-material rounds, 200 hunting rounds.

9. Hand-out gun(s) – Auto Ordnance.30 Carbine in M1 Carbine. .30 Carbine because it is small and light, works in a small frame box magazine semi-auto gun, has ballistics at 200 yards slightly better than .357 Magnum at the muzzle. M1 Carbine because it is light, handy, easy to handle, and more accurate in unskilled hands than a full power handgun or rifle. Also not too expensive for the carbines, magazines, and ammunition. 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun, 200 hunting rounds for the .30-'06

10. Personal Defense Weapon (PDR) – PDR for primarily non-combatants. Same as the hand-out gun for all the same reasons. Small enough and light enough to keep slung when doing many tasks, unlike full power weapons. Pistols are ‘handier’ in that they are smaller and lighter, but inexperienced shooters seem to handle a light carbine more effectively than a pistol. 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun.

11. Get-home-bag/trunk gun – Again the .30 Carbine, this time with a folding stock. For most of the same reasons above. There are guns that compact as much or more than a folding stock .30 Carbine, but most have a much larger profile and the gun and ammunition are heavier and bulkier. Some that seem ideal I don’t trust to be reliable. (Not a BOB or GOOD or INCH bag – they call for an MBR in my opinion) 30 15-round magazines per gun, 1,000 rounds defensive rounds per gun.

12. Long Ranger sniper/anti-material rifle – Vigilance VR-1 .408 Cheytac because of its effectiveness at long ranges for both anti-personnel and anti-materiel sniping. VR-1 because it’s light for the caliber (18#), semi-auto. .408 Cheytac due to its effectiveness compared to the .50 BMG and .416 Barrett, and the fact that it is available in lighter and easier to handle weapons. Very expensive. 5 magazines. 600 rounds of ammunition

Why no .22 LR or other rimfires – Simply because they cannot be reloaded. When you’re out of ammunition, you are out of ammunition. They are so common that finding one post-disaster shouldn’t be much of a problem. Same with the ammunition early on, and then, when it’s all gone, they aren’t useable. For hunting, using a .32 ACP chamber adapter in a .308 or .30-’06 bolt action rifle provides for near silent small game hunting. The .30 M1 Carbines can do pretty much substitute for a .22 rim fire rifle or carbine will do and the rounds are reloadable.

13. Black powder cartridge arms - .45-70 in Marlin 1895, .45 Colt in Ruger New Model Blackhawk Convertible, .32-20 in Ruger Blackhawk & Marlin 1894 rifle. .45-70 because it is the most plentiful of the big bore black powder cartridges is powerful enough for any American big game at short ranges. Marlin because of quality. .45 Colt because it is the most common powerful black powder hand gun cartridge easily available. Ruger for the same reason as the Marlin. .32-20 because it is a better small game cartridge than the .45-70 or .45 Colt, and available in Ruger and Marlin firearms. 1,000 rounds each caliber each gun.

14. Blackpowder muzzle loaders - .58 caliber flintlock rifle, .58 caliber flintlock handgun (x3), .32 flintlock rifle, 12 gauge flintlock shotgun. Flintlock because black powder, including ffff for priming, can be made, and bullets cast from scrap lead. .58 caliber rifle and pistol for bullet interchangeability. Any good quality brand for availability, quality, and cost. .32 for small game, 12 gauge for maximum power. Loading supplies for 1,000 shots each caliber for each gun.

15. Archery weapons – When quiet is needed and there are no suppressors for the firearms, archery weapons come into their own. While the high tech ones have some of the same disadvantages of firearms, such as available ammunition (arrows, points, nocks, shafts, and fletching) more primitive designs can be home made and can be effective enough to hunt with and even for defense in some cases.
Bear Carnage Compound Bow using Easton ST Axis Full Metal Jacket Dangerous Game arrows with MUZZY 4 blade broad heads 145gr regular compound bow or a Barnett Predator AVI compound Crossbow using Easton XX75 bolts with MUZZY 4 blade broadhead 145gr for a compound cross bow.

16. Expedient weapons/defenses:
Here creativity becomes the watch word. Most things can be used as a weapon, many that are innocuous enough to not get you in trouble if you carry them. A good hiking staff or walking stick, to a roll of dimes in a fist, to keys held through the fingers, and on and on and on. Any search on the internet for expedient weapons will find all kinds of examples. One particular one that I like isn’t an offensive weapon. It is pretty much defensive. That is a small, lightly weighted throw net. It can be carried in a pocket ready to deploy, or even in the hand, and with a flick of the arm and wrist, (after lots of practice) it can entangle an aggressor enough, for long enough, to do harm to them if required, or two get away.


17. Sharps:
Every Day Carry - City:
Leatherman or Cold Steel folding pocket knife
Gentleman’s Swiss Army Knife

Every Day Carry – Field (in addition to the above):
Leatherman Surge Multi-tool
Wenger Survivor or Victorinox Rucksack SAK
Spyderco C08 Harpy one hand opening serrated hawk blade ‘get out of trouble’ folder kept clipped where it is easy one hand access for emergency use.

Concurrent to the first 5 weapons:
Edged weapons:
Ontario Knife OKC-3S bayonet (for PTR-91 & Remington 11-87)(Yes, they will fit with the adapters I have) (Have)
Cold Steel Oda field knife (Have 2)
Cold Steel Rifleman’s tomahawk (Have)
Cold Steel 24” Latin machete (Have)

Concurrent with the Black powder cartridge arms.
Cold Steel 1860 heavy cavalry saber (want)
Cold Steel Natchez Bowie Knife (want)

Just my opinion.
12-18-2014 10:52 AM
jknova I think you're listing what you own, right? It depends on the situation and on your environment exactly what you might need. The two things you don't have that are very useful in common situations are 1) a full-power scoped rifle, such as a .308 or .30-06 bolt rifle, and 2) an intermediate cartridge carbine, such as an AR-15.

Will you need them? Who knows? In most situations, you'd probably do fine with your .30-30, .38 Special revolver, 12ga and the .22s.
12-18-2014 10:45 AM
Runamok Not sure if you're asking for suggestions as to what to get next, if anything but I would recommend a hunting rifle chambered in .30-06. or .308 and a modern repeating rifle that takes hi-cap mags. The 30-30 is decent out to about 200yds but does not have the knockdown power or ballistics that I would want past that.

As for the other weapons I would buy a lot more arrows. They will be the limiting factor in your bows working. I think bows will be a very under prepped item in terms of a true SHTF because they are silent. You don't have to worry about others tracking you down due to a gun shot report.
12-18-2014 09:55 AM
Renegade Ziggy If the list is of weapons you currently own, I think you'll find that during a SHTF moment, you're only going to find use out of 2 or 3 guns, that's the maximum number I see anyone carrying anyways.
12-18-2014 12:47 AM
sert556 despite what many magazines say theres no need for dozens of guns. what worked for the pioneers will work for you.

high capacity repeating rifle with low recoil, was a pistol lever rifle but now is a semi auto centerfire.
shotgun for self defense and game animals.
rimfire is a must for game
large caliber centerfire is very nice to have if your in an area with lots of large animals to eat.
handgun ? depends on how often you go "town" so to speak. would keep you safer until you got back to your horse and grabbed your rifle.
This thread has more than 20 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net