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Thread: Advice on a hand to hand self defense course for a guy? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-21-2016 09:13 PM
AlphaSierraCharlie I took a class from a guy who teaches a lot of Akido based stuff. I watched a 9 year old girl take down a full grown man in a full speed sparring drill. Obviously, training isn't as rough as the real thing, but I saw first hand that the physics and biomechanics work. Traditional martial arts and MMA are geared toward sport, not actual life-and-death fighting. I'd look for someone who teaches a "self defense" class as opposed to a "whichever martial art". If the teacher doesn't flinch or balk when you explain your problems, he's probably the guy for you.
09-22-2016 12:20 PM
JustFrank You're getting some good advice. My son is a Krav Maga instructor, so naturally, I think that is a great choice. I also have friends that are black belts in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. The army's modernized combatives is based on bjj, so it is a very effective choice, as well.
09-22-2016 10:53 AM
TacticalFarmer I wrestled folkstyle, freestyle, and Greco for years and also did mma for a short period of time.

My advice is to practice a lot. Get involved with jiu jitsu and don't do it at a McDojo. Find the Jiu Jitsu club that doesn't ***** foot around.

For everybody who thinks you can learn anything useful about fighting by looking on the internet and doing stupid drills you saw on youtube, you have a hell of a shocking surprise the first time you get punched in the face.

Those drills are just to build muscle memory before you START to practice them correctly when do live sparring.
09-16-2016 10:21 AM
sixtus a word of warning again on 'military styles' and self defence courses. The issue being they are extremely incomplete, being a short course for soldiers to learn a few tactics, along with the other 20 or 100 courses the average soldier has to absorb, they cannot afford to be overly comprehensive, nor do they pretend to. Instructors do not have time to turn soldiers into expert hand to hand killing machines anymore than the soldiers navigation training or first aid training turns them into expert mountaineers or emergency room doctors. These courses will also not turn the average guy into a killing machine either.

One of their biggest failings is they are not designed to handle actual fighters- defending punches or kicks throws or takedowns from anyone semi-skilled. This can only be done by full contact sparring and drilling against the guys using these attacks the best. A lot of clubs do not even have contact sparring to drill anything and very little emphasis on fitness to boot. You can study a military style your entire life( though really it needs very little time) and at the end of it you may be able to handle the average guy or maybe disarm basic weapons but you will still be in trouble against the 250lb mugger who had a dozen boxing matches in the pen.

Where their attraction is of course the average guys being impressed "oh but soldiers use them for killing''( being unaware of the limitations of basic compressed training as I mentioned) and secondly they are short courses, so it seems like you are getting a free lunch, ''learn to be a killer in just 3 easy steps + a free video!" Sorry, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Where in life does that happen? Certainly these courses teach something useful, just as a restraints and control course works well for police/security/correctional workers. But if you want to learn something to cover 99% of hand to hand SHTF , get into full contact styles in your spare time, just like we tell our soldiers.
09-01-2016 03:44 PM
BillM
Get Tough

I recommend the "Get Tough" hand to hand manual used by American forces during WWII. available on the internet.

America had to train combat forces fast and they were playing catchup.

It is simple, effective and easy to learn without an instructor.

This is no frills designed to maim and kill.
09-01-2016 12:55 PM
Praestes My go to advice. See how they spar. Is it full contact? If not, find something else.

Generally, wrestling, boxing, mma, bbj, krav are full contact. Others may or may not be.

Remember, when training to fight, you should train by actually fighting. Other arts may be good for discipline, work ethic etc, but if they aren't full contact, they can actually hamper the main contributor to winning a fight (the capacity to do violence).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
09-01-2016 12:14 PM
sixtus To the OP, my opinion is any hard sweaty full contact style is best. Boxing, kickboxing, sambo, muay thai, judo, MMA, BJJ etc. They will all teach you to handle the average guy , and 99% of dojo stylists as well.

99% of the dojo styles( semi contact kungfu, karate, TKD) just don't work in the formats they are taught. The self defence or military styles like Krav maga are a little hit and miss as well, depending on the club.

A simple question is who would you fear to fight most if I was to find you the nastiest opponent to attack you or your girl tomorrow? I can guarantee its not ''Sensei Bob'' with the 6 stripe black tipped belt, glasses, fat gut, works at the comic bookstore, and has a class full of teenage kids and suburbanites. Or the little Asian guy "Master Kwang do" the 12th degree dragon style death toucher who serves burgers by day and teaches students to tap into their ki and be one with the universe.

Its a sweaty, pig eyed, broken nosed or cauliflower ears, roided up tattoed guy 100lbs heavier than you, possibly twice your physical strength. Basically any professional heavyweight boxer, or high level judo guy, or Olympic wrestler, or pro muay thai or MMA heavyweight.

So was I right?

So just go and train with some of those guys. Very simple. You will be scared at first, you will sweat, you will want to vomit from exhaustion, you will get hit or taken down too( not hard enough to be hurt or injured, these clubs want people to come back after all, you will find professional coaches very professional in their methods with learners, as are the fighters themselves), and you will learn to actually defend yourself, and not be afraid. Because that is what it takes. There are no shortcuts. Anyone who tells you there is, is just selling colored belts to hapless suburbanites like ''sensei bob and master kwang-do''.
03-09-2016 05:32 AM
Tiny SWO Sounds like you're just a little bit too much obsessed with homosexuality. I wish I could empathize, but I don't have that problem.
03-09-2016 04:55 AM
BJJ_Grappler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny SWO View Post
In all seriousness, it certainly doesn't need to be in your face to attack it!
That sounds so...





03-08-2016 10:00 AM
Tiny SWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
How often do you have a scrotum dangling in your face during a fight?

Wait... don't answer that.


In all seriousness, it certainly doesn't need to be in your face to attack it!

I know this explanation can be taken the wrong way so I'm likely teeing up a good comeback up for you, but depending on what kind of clothing the attacker has, the potential to grab, twist, yank and powerfully as you can may be there. Do that and the fight is over.
03-08-2016 04:58 AM
BJJ_Grappler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny SWO View Post
Fair enough. I'll admit that in a street fight I'm more likely to use the techniques that I've developed when sparring, but if the opportunity to grab and rip someone's scrotum presents itself, I don't think I'll hesitate to do so because I haven't been doing it while sparring.
How often do you have a scrotum dangling in your face during a fight?

Wait... don't answer that.
03-06-2016 12:13 PM
Tiny SWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
Does he actually fight or does he just do drills?
Sorry, I missed your question from earlier in the thread. He spars just like everyone else and he's by far the best one there among the small over-50 crowd that we have. Ironically, he did suffer an attempted mugging a while ago and he was able to end it quickly with a BJJ wrist lock that we've drilled on.

Our gym is American Top Team certified, so there's also plenty of basic-level BJJ and MMA that is incorporated into our Krav training.
03-06-2016 01:53 AM
Viper6Niner
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
I just don't see how fine motor skills techniques can be effective in a real "street fight".
Feel free not to develop any of them then. A former coworker of mine saved his life with a simple one I showed him for fun. We practiced enough hanging out after work and when someone tried to stab him he performed it as a reflex. Kept a kitchen knife out of his gut.

Did I have to stab him full speed with a knife to teach him to block one? We are talking about self defense here, not wrestling. These people are out to hurt you and they will come at you sideways.
03-06-2016 12:34 AM
Tiny SWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
I drill techniques every week, but as you said it is not the same as trying to apply it under stress and with full resistance from a skilled opponent.

Drilling is better than nothing, but you are less likely to use the technique under stress because you don't have as much experience or confidence in it as the techniques you use during sparring.

I'd rather use techniques I know work under resistance and under stress than hope that it works when I need it the most.

Fair enough. I'll admit that in a street fight I'm more likely to use the techniques that I've developed when sparring, but if the opportunity to grab and rip someone's scrotum presents itself, I don't think I'll hesitate to do so because I haven't been doing it while sparring.
03-06-2016 12:22 AM
BJJ_Grappler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper6Niner View Post
You can practice them under any conditions you want. If you don't start slow and develop the muscle memory, you'll never do them correctly.
I just don't see how fine motor skills techniques can be effective in a real "street fight".
03-06-2016 12:12 AM
BJJ_Grappler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiny SWO View Post
Drilling builds muscle memory. I agree that sparring is much better preparation than drilling, but drilling isn't useless. It's absurd to think that no one has ever done a hammer fist to the base of the neck in a real fight because they never did it when sparring.
I drill techniques every week, but as you said it is not the same as trying to apply it under stress and with full resistance from a skilled opponent.

Drilling is better than nothing, but you are less likely to use the technique under stress because you don't have as much experience or confidence in it as the techniques you use during sparring.

I'd rather use techniques I know work under resistance and under stress than hope that it works when I need it the most.
03-05-2016 11:40 PM
Viper6Niner
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
I am legitimately trying to understand how any practices "deadly" techniques without doing it under stress inducing conditions.
You can practice them under any conditions you want. If you don't start slow and develop the muscle memory, you'll never do them correctly.
03-05-2016 08:19 PM
Tiny SWO
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJJ_Grappler View Post
Then how do you know you will be able to perform it under stress in a real fight?
Drilling builds muscle memory. I agree that sparring is much better preparation than drilling, but drilling isn't useless. It's absurd to think that no one has ever done a hammer fist to the base of the neck in a real fight because they never did it when sparring.
03-05-2016 07:03 PM
BJJ_Grappler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper6Niner View Post
The same way we practiced in the Marines. You pull your strikes. Start slow and work your way up just like any martial art. The more you do it the more intensively you can train without maiming each other.

Are you suggesting that all martial arts with strikes capable of causing severe injury or death are only learned by killing each other? Or does that just apply to the one you think is a joke? Sorry if I'm misreading you but your post comes off that way.
I am legitimately trying to understand how any practices "deadly" techniques without doing it under stress inducing conditions.
03-05-2016 02:09 PM
Jerry D Young
Quote:
Originally Posted by junglecrawler View Post
I'm sorry Jerry, you're a prepper hero to me, man, but I have to disagree with TFT. I spent a lot of time looking into it, and studying the stuff that's out there -there's quite a lot of full course videos on it that can be watched for free- and it doesn't stack up to the violence I've personally experienced, and that can be witnessed in countless videos online. It doesn't reflect the dynamics of actual violence at all.

TFT treats everything like a choreographed set, and is quixotically mimicking the equally impractical paired katas of traditional martial arts.
For example this:
Tim Larkin: How to Defend Yourself Against an Attacker Using Target Focus Training - YouTube

Targeting and hitting someone in the throat, kidneys etc is very hard in an actual fight where they are trying to hurt you and your heart's bpm is through the roof. Then there's the very low chance that the opponent will react in TFT's predicted manner. Violence just doesn't work like that.

I gave TFT a lot of fair research first, but its core principles on violence and hit reaction don't hold under RL.
First, thank you very much.

That video was not much like what I had learned several years ago. It looks like they have taken TFT to just what you said, a choreographed set of moves. When I learned it, the concept was to use explosive action, against the most vulnerable target at the moment, and not stopping until the perp was down and out. I am rather disappointed in the way they have gone with it.

The reason I liked it initially was because it was quite similar to the techniques my father taught me when I was growing up. It was not a specific set of moves, but the intense, do the most damage possible to incapacitate the perp in the shortest time. There were no specific moves, and certainly no sets of moves. It was all situation dependent and reactive. Whatever would work in the given situation was what you would do.

Going to have to do some more research on this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Just my opinion.
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