Survivalist Forum - Reply to Topic
Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > > >
Articles Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files


Notices

Advertise Here
Thread: Masks for nuclear fall out Reply to Thread
Title:
  
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Survivalist Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Gender
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Topic Review (Newest First)
05-08-2020 02:10 PM
neiowa
Quote:
Originally Posted by CONELRAD View Post
Here is what you should probably be looking for: https://botach.com/scott-045135-cbrn-filters/


....
Yes and apparently have 40mm in stock. Most Scott 40mm have a 8wk + leadtime from the factory. (if the med business got a clue/dropped their fixation on N95, it would be way longer).

Side note - 3M even recently caught up on their P100 1/2 face respirators (and 2097 filters) is making stock available direct to FD/Ambulance.
05-08-2020 09:12 AM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcast View Post
I follow what you're saying, a tank situation, would be hard for me to use. I will check out that link for gov site that you provided. The 6092 filter would be safe for, a post nuclear
attack. Providing that the radioactive fall out, had decayed to a certain level. With the exception, that I actually survived the initial attack. Were I am located now, would be a fraction of 1 %. And that is an optimistic out look!



I’m not saying you need SCBA, I’m not even saying you need a 6092. All you really need is a dust/particulate filter. A 3M 2097 P100 w/Nuisance-level Organic vapor relief would be more than adequate.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...4780246&rt=rud

To be honest... even that is probably overkill and you wouldn’t even need to wear it long-term. If your concern is radiation sickness or other acute health effects, you don’t need respiratory protection at all. Even immediately, post attack.

If your concern is long-term effects... it’s highly unlikely the internal dose you would receive from inhaled particulates that resuspend while walking around, working, etc... will be more significant than the dose your body is being pelted with from all of the other particulates that are still on the ground. While radioactive materials *inside* your body can do more damage, there is so much more stuff outside your body hitting you with gamma radiation that it becomes akin to spitting during a monsoon. Even once the fallout has decayed to relatively “safe” levels, that proportion doesn’t change.

So here’s the bottom line... if you’re talking about a significant attack that “breaks” society, the long-term benefit you’re going to receive from wearing the mask likely won’t make a difference. Statistically you will be infinitely more likely to die of some other cause than a radiologically-induced cancer. If it’s a smaller-scale attack that might allow recovery and relocation... then maybe it makes sense to wear a mask.
05-08-2020 07:51 AM
surfcast I follow what you're saying, a tank situation, would be hard for me to use. I will check out that link for gov site that you provided. The 6092 filter would be safe for, a post nuclear
attack. Providing that the radioactive fall out, had decayed to a certain level. With the exception, that I actually survived the initial attack. Were I am located now, would be a fraction of 1 %. And that is an optimistic out look!
05-07-2020 06:48 PM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike46370 View Post
We used the M17 mask with hood with our MOPP gear for a nuclear fallout environment, later the MCU-2/P with 40mm NATO type filters. For nuclear weapon accident scenarios, we wore the above masks with hoods, but with anti-C suits (EOD would wear SCBA and anti-C suits, depending on the weapon(s).
We use SCBA or line-supplied air until the threat and its concentration have been identified, then we can switch over to APRs if appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcast View Post
I have two of these, for work related tasks.
Those would work for the most part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcast View Post
I was thinking of purchasing, one's perhaps more suited. For real emergency,
There so many out there, tough to choose.
For what kind of emergency? As I already said, you don't really need a mask for weapon fallout because you shouldn't be out in it. At least not until it decays to a manageable level. After that, if you're kicking up a lot of dust (resuspending fallout particulates), a mask is a good idea.

There really aren't any CBRN-rated filters for basic respirators like that because you need a suit + full face mask for chemical threats. Most of the commercial respirators are silicone which doesn't stand up to blister agents very long so they don't get rated for CBRN. The responder masks which are rated for CBRN are usually butyl rubber or some other material like Hycar or EPDM.

Any of the facepieces and associated canisters in this report would be just fine:https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...R_1709-508.pdf
05-07-2020 05:33 PM
Mike46370 We used the M17 mask with hood with our MOPP gear for a nuclear fallout environment, later the MCU-2/P with 40mm NATO type filters. For nuclear weapon accident scenarios, we wore the above masks with hoods, but with anti-C suits (EOD would wear SCBA and anti-C suits, depending on the weapon(s).
05-07-2020 05:02 PM
surfcast
////////////

I was thinking of purchasing, one's perhaps more suited. For real emergency,
There so many out there, tough to choose.
05-07-2020 05:00 PM
surfcast
////////////

I have two of these, for work related tasks.

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...MaAn-eEALw_wcB
05-07-2020 01:27 PM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcast View Post
What would you recommend from 3M ? I was looking at this, and it said discontinued.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...?Ntt=453-00-01
Here is what you should probably be looking for: https://botach.com/scott-045135-cbrn-filters/


Quote:
Originally Posted by AGT Tactical View Post
Actually, the "cartridges" make the mask awesome...
.
.
.
Buying a cheap mask is folly. Its the one thing you will REALLY want to work properly when you need it.
I have no problem with Avon. My criticisms of the FM50's proprietary filters are based on limited availability, not performance. I agree, cheap masks are folly, but for fallout protection, the FM50 (and those cool features) is overkill. It sounds like the OP already has a mask if they're looking for a cartridge.
05-07-2020 08:11 AM
AGT Tactical
Quote:
Originally Posted by CONELRAD View Post
The Avon FM50 is the current US military mask. I wouldn’t recommend that particular model because of the proprietary cartridges. The C50 uses standard 40mm cartridges. They’re okay, but heinously expensive, especially for the purposes of anyone here. There are less expensive options from 3M, MSA, Scott, etc.
Actually, the "cartridges" make the mask awesome...since the FM50 was adopted by the US military and even some PDs, there are probably more unexpired FM61 filters for the FM50 mask than any other type, and they are likely to become even more common place. I even have EMT's wearing them. They are much more comfortable to wear, the filter's mass sits closer to the face so it doesn't flop around, and there is less rotational inertia when turning the head while clearing a building, etc. Try running with a conventional mask with a huge single filter hanging off it...then try the FM50. It's night and day. The FM50 also has the very important feature of allowing a user to swap filters in a contaminated environment. This can be a life saver.. If you remove the filter, the self seal disk valve protects you. If you remove the filter on any 40mm mask, you can stick your finger in the hole and touch your face.

As for price...Avon's mask are more expensive because they are considered the best in the business (and they are vastly superior). Most of Avon's masks are NIOSH certified.. I have had dozens of PD's switch to Avon because they other manufacturers masks didn't hold up. The outsert protect the lens, and allow different lenses for a variety of conditions, like daylight, low light, laser protection, sniper lenses which improve visual acuity through blue blocking, and even welding outserts. Most of Avon's masks have voice projection options, radio comm, can be used with powered air
even the FM50), and can even be attached to a vehicular air supply.

Buying a cheap mask is folly. Its the one thing you will REALLY want to work properly when you need it.
05-06-2020 05:11 PM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcast View Post
What would you recommend from 3M ? I was looking at this, and it said discontinued.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...?Ntt=453-00-01

Are you talking about fallout or full CBRN capability?
05-06-2020 12:24 PM
surfcast
////////////

Quote:
Originally Posted by CONELRAD View Post
The Avon FM50 is the current US military mask. I wouldn’t recommend that particular model because of the proprietary cartridges. The C50 uses standard 40mm cartridges. They’re okay, but heinously expensive, especially for the purposes of anyone here. There are less expensive options from 3M, MSA, Scott, etc.



What would you recommend from 3M ? I was looking at this, and it said discontinued.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-...?Ntt=453-00-01
05-06-2020 08:32 AM
neiowa
Quote:
Originally Posted by CONELRAD View Post
The Avon FM50 is the current US military mask. I wouldn’t recommend that particular model because of the proprietary cartridges. The C50 uses standard 40mm cartridges. They’re okay, but heinously expensive, especially for the purposes of anyone here. There are less expensive options from 3M, MSA, Scott, etc.
I did not realize the M50 promask didn't have 40mm. I ssumed some stylist went wild with a new profile filter but kept 40mm. DOD didn't require open source fo the new filters design. Some strong stupid there.
05-06-2020 07:24 AM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
Very true. However AVON bailed out of the US SCBA market last year. I think was their US main distribution channel. They were a bit player their with a piece of junk SCBA anyhow (<5% of the market).

They still trying to sell equipment to the cop market?

The Avon FM50 is the current US military mask. I wouldn’t recommend that particular model because of the proprietary cartridges. The C50 uses standard 40mm cartridges. They’re okay, but heinously expensive, especially for the purposes of anyone here. There are less expensive options from 3M, MSA, Scott, etc.
05-05-2020 08:27 PM
neiowa
Quote:
Originally Posted by CONELRAD View Post
I hate that website. AVON is the only mask on that page worth purchasing, but for civilians vs. weapon fallout, it's overkill. SGE isn't bad, but the materials they use for their seals/skirts aren't the best against chemical agents......
Very true. However AVON bailed out of the US SCBA market last year. I think was their US main distribution channel. They were a bit player their with a piece of junk SCBA anyhow (<5% of the market).

They still trying to sell equipment to the cop market?
05-05-2020 02:28 PM
CONELRAD
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfcast View Post
Found this interesting, do you think any of these are worthy of purchasing?

https://thepreppingguide.com/gas-mas...uclear-attack/
I hate that website. AVON is the only mask on that page worth purchasing, but for civilians vs. weapon fallout, it's overkill. SGE isn't bad, but the materials they use for their seals/skirts aren't the best against chemical agents.

Full disclosure, obviously in my line of work we wear respiratory protection anytime there's even the slightest possibility of a respirable radioactive particulate, gas, or vapor being present. We wear PPE in these cases more for cancer avoidance than because the environment is IDLH. When I talk about PPE requirements here, it's within the context of civilian disaster survival and nothing else.

Yes, in theory, if you were outside in fallout which was light enough to not produce effects through external dose... it would probably benefit you to have breathing protection. However, and I can't stress this enough, masks will only protect you from inhaling particulates, they do nothing to protect you from the intense, penetrating gamma radiation emitted by the fallout. As a general rule, if you are in an area that receives dangerous fallout, you need to be sheltered. Period. If you're wandering around in a suit and mask, you'll be a walking deadman in short order. Same with "hazmat suits". They only keep the fallout from directly contacting your skin and make it easier to decontaminate yourself. They don't protect you from radiation.

Nuclear weapon fallout is similar in consistency to sand. So if you're in shelter (even inside a building) the building becomes your filter, so no mask or suit is necessary. There are probably some fission byproduct gasses and vapors released from the deposited particulates which you could potentially inhale, but the total dose you would receive from those vapors would be insignificant compared to the external dose you would receive from deposited fallout. This has been explored during nuclear weapons testing in the late-40's/early-50's with animals exposed to fallout. The amount of material they inhaled was virtually nil. I have referenced these tests in other posts on this subject.

For the true die-hards... if you're close enough to a nuclear blast to be within range of the base surge and somehow still survive the blast, thermal, and prompt radiation effects... yes, a full-on CBRN-rated mask would be a good idea because testing has shown there can be a concerning amount of vapor and gaseous nuclides in the air along with much smaller, more respirable dust and particulates. However, this would be an extremely, extremely, rare situation. It's pretty much limited to soldiers operating in a tactical nuclear battlefield.

Releases from nuclear power plants are a bit different. They are more gas and vapor products than particulates so CBRN-rated masks can be beneficial. However, in general, the same sheltering rules apply. If you're sheltered, an intact building will substantially reduce the concentration of any passing vapor plumes as well as shielding you from radiation. As with weapon fallout, the inhalation dose would be far less than the dose you would receive from external sources. At Chernobyl, the initial responders and workers had a surprisingly small amount of internal contamination in spite of their lack of appropriate PPE. What ended up killing them was their external doses along with the skin burns caused by direct skin contact with beta-emitting materials.

Finally, dirty bombs or RDDs (Radiological Dispersal Devices). Unless the bomb incorporated finely milled nuclear material, the particulates generated won't be large enough to be inhaled and they will be spread ballistically... meaning by the force of the explosion. As soon as they slow down, they drop out of the air. Finely milled weapons-grade plutonium or uranium, on the other hand, could be a major inhalation hazard for those in the immediate vicinity of the explosion and dust cloud. This is a problem because plutonium, uranium, americium, etc.. tend to stick in the lungs. Cesium, iodine, etc... will diffuse out and be eliminated through natural processes.

So, bottom line, masks like these are most useful for surviving the following radiological environments...

1. The base surge of a nuclear detonation.
2. In the vapor plume at close proximity to a nuclear power plant during a major accident.
3. In the dust plume of an RDD (dirty bomb) using finely milled weapons-grade materials.

These are typically the areas soldiers and first responders will be operating. Civilians have no business remaining in these areas, with the exception of sheltering post-nuclear detonation.
05-05-2020 01:16 PM
surfcast
Masks for nuclear fall out

Found this interesting, do you think any of these are worthy of purchasing?

https://thepreppingguide.com/gas-mas...uclear-attack/

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © Kevin Felts 2006 - 2015,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net