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Thread: My survival in the war in Ukraine Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-24-2017 11:34 AM
Hunt Oh thanks. Yes, I checked that, I was just puzzled that this thread went cold so abruptly. Cheers
09-24-2017 10:57 AM
sarge912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunt View Post
Does this thread resume elsewhere?
if you click on the name of the author of each post you will get a drop down menu that shows when and where they have posted. (this is not always up to date but is usually within a week or so.)
In the case of George1980, I don't see any further posts since 2015.

PS Welcome to the boards
09-24-2017 08:47 AM
Hunt Does this thread resume elsewhere?
04-23-2015 05:47 PM
SapphireBishop Interesting, nothing new here in the last month.
03-19-2015 04:04 PM
FerFAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by George1980 View Post
Oh Yeah! This is very familiar to me. Several years ago I have lost key to my door. It was ordinary wooden door. Situation was in night. May be, would be another better solution, but i just knocked the door by kick. Weak place was lock - door was unbroken, but the "tongue" of lock had broke. It gave me the unpleasant thoughts, that my home is total unprotected. Then I have changed the door (with new lock, but it was also dissatisfactory) for new thick wooden and steel "sandwich" door. And... after couple of years lock of my awesome durable door had stuck. And in those case kick was not a solution... After all I had to pay money for special master of emergency opening of doors. He opened my door in half a minute (I did not see surely what was his tool) and I was shocked - it turns out that my home is still unprotected.

One of my friends said me that, may be, if he would be emigrate, he will choice Uruguay. He supposed that it is peaceful and calm country. Is it true?
Uruguay is not a bad option. It does have a bit more crime than Ukraine though. Its not bad, one of the best countries in Latin America, but you have better, safer countries in Europe. Spain, Italy, Portugal. Spain and Portugal are nice and safe. Ireland is also a great place to live and there's lots of people from Ukraine so you'd make friends fast!
FerFAL
03-19-2015 02:48 PM
George1980
Quote:
Originally Posted by haakman View Post
Also were you at all concerned about your personal security when walking the streets? Like aggressive policeman wanting money or they'll beat you up or roaming Gangs or being robbed on the street? Or either military side stopping you for something Or were people more or less civiI inside the city?
Actually here in Kharkov situation with street criminals and agressive policemen is not very bad. I never walk after about 6-7 p.m. I suppose, that in dark time here really is not safe, especially in peripheral districts like mine, but in daytime city is quite safe. I always have my passport in pocket for police and, of course, I always pray for avoid it. Police can easy blame you in random crime ("Half ago on the next street one man robbed women and you seems to be criminal according to his description") and hold on for days untill you give them money.
03-19-2015 02:37 PM
George1980
Quote:
Originally Posted by haakman View Post
George1980 I have a question about water.

To avoid the water truck line up or if it didn't come when you needed water, we're there any streams or natural water sources you could get water from? We're you able to venture into the countryside a bit to find natural water sources or was everyone held in the city due to fighting?
In Donetsk natural sources of water were VERY dirty - because city has many factories and plants. In Dzerzhinsk were several small sources, but in winter it is very uncomfortable to go several kilometres to source and then carry about 15-20 kg of water at home - every day.
03-19-2015 02:19 PM
haakman Also were you at all concerned about your personal security when walking the streets? Like aggressive policeman wanting money or they'll beat you up or roaming Gangs or being robbed on the street? Or either military side stopping you for something Or were people more or less civiI inside the city?
03-19-2015 02:13 PM
haakman George1980 I have a question about water.

To avoid the water truck line up or if it didn't come when you needed water, we're there any streams or natural water sources you could get water from? We're you able to venture into the countryside a bit to find natural water sources or was everyone held in the city due to fighting?
03-19-2015 01:41 PM
George1980
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerFAL View Post
Once in Ireland I felt uncomfortable for the first few weeks becuase our house had no bars on the windows and even the main door was made of glass (the one I had in Argentina was a custom made armored door, pretty much bomb proof) I kept thinking "anyone can throw a rock through the window and walk in!".
FerFAL
Oh Yeah! This is very familiar to me. Several years ago I have lost key to my door. It was ordinary wooden door. Situation was in night. May be, would be another better solution, but i just knocked the door by kick. Weak place was lock - door was unbroken, but the "tongue" of lock had broke. It gave me the unpleasant thoughts, that my home is total unprotected. Then I have changed the door (with new lock, but it was also dissatisfactory) for new thick wooden and steel "sandwich" door. And... after couple of years lock of my awesome durable door had stuck. And in those case kick was not a solution... After all I had to pay money for special master of emergency opening of doors. He opened my door in half a minute (I did not see surely what was his tool) and I was shocked - it turns out that my home is still unprotected.

One of my friends said me that, may be, if he would be emigrate, he will choice Uruguay. He supposed that it is peaceful and calm country. Is it true?
03-18-2015 10:38 AM
FerFAL
Quote:
Originally Posted by George1980 View Post
After all “technical details” about life in war zone I want to say a few words about psychological side of it.
Attention: this text has no purpose to move to pity you!
Worse thing in war zone is your family. I knew many single people that were trying just do not notice the war. Yes, they heard explosions, they, may be, have broken windows in their flats, but they were trying ignore fear of death. But if you have family you could not ignore every loud sound, every burst or threatening gossips about cleansings, offensives, tortures and so on. You worry about all of your people and these thoughts devastate you day by day. And this factor just has not any solution – only escape from war zone.
Fear of death? Actually, it is very strange thing. As I have said, I never used common shelter. But many people sat there by weeks – mostly it was old men. I tried to be at home, and many people did like me – because a lot of casualties were killed on the open streets by fragments. Only direct hit could kill me in my flat and it was quite unlikely, because my side of building was opposite to direction of fire from north of city. I preferred to be at home in moderate hazard than in shelter with constantly crying small children and groaning old men.
But it was like prison. Week by week we were at home and were trying do not go to the windows. Small rooms, sometimes without electricity (therefore without light and computers). In late evenings, when fire stopped, we dared to stay near our porch and to breath fresh air. But were long periods when we did not go from the home – only for food in next working shop.
Main enemy is boredom. Point is boredom is mixed with fear and many former hobbies do not entertain you. In peaceful time you might like many things but in time of war and fear most of it is getting irrelevant. For example, I liked to ride bicycle, but then it was impossible. I also very liked to read, but strange thing happened – I could not perceive well known information. Something is changed, point of view changed. I fell out books about war – because war environed me, books about love and others seemed to be absurd. Special transformation was with my favorite books of Russian writers – I suddenly understood that most of them MADE this war. Ideas about “Russian world”, “mysterious Russian soul”, “special Russian way of life”, “Russian sacral destiny” and other scum inspired thousands stupid guys with guns who consider themselves as “heirs of great Russian culture” (like Germans in Hitler age consider themselves as superior race not only in biological sense, but in cultural also). It was very personally unpleasant for to me to understand it…
So I was trying to find new “wartime hobbies”. And I have found it!
Firstly, I decided to learn cooking. Before it, I only could boil eggs, pasta or potatoes, and even could not fry meat. We have limited number of food, but it did not prevent me. With assistance of my wife I have learned cook national Ukrainian soup – “borshch” (I know, for English-speaking man this word sounds horrible), pilaf and cutlets. It takes over 2 months. But I really have learned to cook cutlets very good – from forcemeat with addition of potatoes, bread, onions and other food, that I could find in my refrigerator. I have to say, that cooking is perfect hobby – it can really calm you! From that moment I became main cutlet-maker in our family.
Secondly, I begun to tie knots. I was an climber a bit, so I knew knots bowline, figure 8, Alpine butterfly knot and several others. But I download books about knots and begun to learn more of them. It was like meditation. When I had electricity, I watched Youtube channels “Bored Paracord” and “Tying it all together”. I have learned about 30 knots and about 7-8 types of making bracelets. Now I forgot more than half of it, but in hard time it was good entertainment. Most important, for this hobby you do not need anything but rope.
My wife downloaded and watched Asian endless serials – “doramas”. Actually, I do not like this stuff, but I did not abuse in that special case.
I know, that it was not good, but my children spend more time watching cartoons. Yes, we try to play with them, but loud cartoon can jam sounds of explosions and it makes children more calm. Generally, I tried to force my eldest daughter to read, but it was not successful.
And then, now, in Kharkov I feel another bad thing. After “miraculous escape” I felt euphoria for one or two weeks. But then I felt strange kind of insomnia. I immerse in slumber and then my brain began works with double power. It is strange feeling – no wake, nor dream. I do not watch nightmares, just can not normal sleep – only “half-sleep” for many hours. And before war I very liked siesta nap, but now I completely can not nap.
George, its good to know you're ok. The anxiety, stress and then feeling "bored" with normal life sounds like PTSD. Its not only something that happens to soldiers but something that happens to people in very stressful situations in general.
When I left Argentina and moved to Ireland I experienced something similar. At first it was mad excitement about having been able to leave succesfully. Until the plane took off I kept thinking we would get stopped for one reason or the other, not allowed to leave, get mugged on the way to the airport or our money stolen by customs workers. Once in Ireland I felt uncomfortable for the first few weeks becuase our house had no bars on the windows and even the main door was made of glass (the one I had in Argentina was a custom made armored door, pretty much bomb proof) I kept thinking "anyone can throw a rock through the window and walk in!". It takes some time to adapt, to realize life is now different. You know it is, but it takes time to sink in. Then I got that feeling you describe, of insomnia (although I did sleep) maybe its more like depression or just not careing. Everything seem trivial and stupid. I remember hearing people talk about nonsense, there just isnt that constant danger around you any more and you're not used to it.
Eventually you get used to "normal" life and things get better.
Thanks for your posts!
FerFAL
03-16-2015 08:08 PM
sygata
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
the Red Army retook Crimea in 1944, it deported the entire population of Crimean Tatars to Central Asia as punishment for collaboration with German forces. Almost half were estimated to have died along the way. The Tatars, who had been on the peninsula for centuries, were not allowed to return to Crimea until the end of Soviet Union but few did. This is the primary reason Crimea today is mostly ethnically Russian, not because it was historically.
While 1944 pretty much erased Tatars population from Crimea, Russians have been a majority there since 1917. To give you some numbers,
Tatars were 92% in 1760, 50% in 1864, 28% in 1917 and 20% in 1939.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
Similar cases are true in the Baltic States.
There was nothing similar in the Baltic States
Russians are not the majority there, and there were nowhere near comparable population transfer.
03-16-2015 07:43 PM
TXyakr Insneaker, I agree with you. I would be very very careful how I interpret what someone wrote on a forum or blog in their second or third language. Never a good idea to accuse someone of fraud without overwhelming evidence. I appreciate anyone telling their story or even translating the stories of others trapped or in conflict zones by choice.

Of all the thousands of NGOs Red Cross/ Red Crescent and local chapters is/are one of the better ones. None of these NGOs are perfect they all make mistakes because that is human. But I really believe there are many very good dedicated people working for the Red Cross, trying very hard with decades of experience.

Anyone who wishes to assist George or others in conflict zones with encouragement or financial resources should do so using common sense and compassion. If all the French people who did not agree with Hitler had left their homeland and towns he would have been totally unstoppable. I don't know what the tiny oligarchy of hardliners that rules Russia is planning, but suspect that IDP may be part of their plan. Conquering territory with fewest shots fired and troops is always a good strategy.
03-16-2015 04:05 PM
Insneaker Yes I'm doing mistakes all the time, but you don't have my paypal account. George's mistake happened in very bad time and that had to be mentioned. He was anyway probably reading this topic, because he reply very fast when I suspected him to be scammer... But why he didn't reply to the guys who was worrying if he was ok? (George you don't have to answer for this. It is more like a theoretical question than anything else.)
That was very bad mistake/timing too in my eyes. (but like I said, I kind of believe in George's story and I wish to see him continuing to telling it! Even when there is some very bad timing involved, we don't have anything proofs what would confirm it or deny it to be true story!)

George told us sad story, what very well could be true, like I said above. Like I said it is 50/50 chance at this moment. And like I said, we cannot confirm it to the one way or another. Arguing about it or asking me to imagine me in George position don't change it to anywhere... (And continuing this is just worst possible kind of hijacking, so this will be my last post in this topic. Don't need to reply for me because like I said, It would not change anything at all.)
And what I know, Russia is threat to my country too (Just today our all politics parties agreed together that Russia is threat to us and we have to build our defense up a little bit more.) Only time will tell what will happens here, so I can imagine myself there very well and have been imagining from the very begin when I was born.
(At this moment I know if war start in this country, that city where I'm living will be one of the first places where Russians will attack. They have prepared for it with land buying from our tactical spots near of power lines, airports and so on!)

If this country goes to war, I'm not going to give any of you my paypal details or would be asking help for me. I would rather die and don't ask why, that is just me and how I'm.
So All what I could be asking is that if war would happens is that you would donate to our country Red Cross. Nothing less, nothing more. That would be helping my country more than anything else what you could be doing.
Salvation army isn't my favor choice because it is religious organization.... Red Cross don't pick any sides religiously or political so it is what I wish to see supported instead of other organizations or me... The man who make mistakes all the time like everyone of us do.

So I don't see anything wrong in my suggestion that you would help whole Ukraine too instead of one man. That deed would also help that one man among the whole country!
And when there really is that 50/50 change at this moment, my bets would go to the bigger organization even if it would hurt somebody's feelings.

And if I would happens to beg some items or money after all, I would not mind if people would suspect my purposes here without a proofs. That is exactly what they should be doing!
And if people would support my country instead of me, it would be more than fine for me because that would be also helping me and my country situation. I would not mind about it at all.

I let others continue from here and like I said, I hope that George tell his story and we let him telling it to us without hijacking this threat with this issue. I would not continue this any further, But of course I will follow this topic, because story is interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerbuster View Post
George made a mistake. Who hasn't?
No one I am aware of has a perfect history & never made a mistake.
I would wager large sums, you have made a mistake before.

For a moment imagine what it would be like yourself to have:
03-16-2015 01:44 PM
TXyakr
Putin is ALIVE!

All is well in Mother Russia:

Putin showed up Sunday night on Russian TV on “Crimea: Path to the Motherland,” a 2 1/2-hour film about reunification of Crimea after a pro-Europe uprising in Ukraine expelled Kremlin-allied President Viktor Yanukovich.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/...316-story.html

snark
03-16-2015 12:24 PM
TXyakr
Internally Displaced Persons is part of strategy

UNHCR estimates on Internally Displaced Persons in Ukraine since recent conflict:
over 19,000 have fled Crimea,
1,131,700 have fled eastern Ukraine

As of 3 March, 12.7% children,
4.1% people with disabilities
60% elderly

http://www.internal-displacement.org...gures-analysis

Look at the History of this region:

When the Red Army retook Crimea in 1944, it deported the entire population of Crimean Tatars to Central Asia as punishment for collaboration with German forces. Almost half were estimated to have died along the way. The Tatars, who had been on the peninsula for centuries, were not allowed to return to Crimea until the end of Soviet Union but few did. This is the primary reason Crimea today is mostly ethnically Russian, not because it was historically. Similar cases are true in the Baltic States.

This is called the new "Hybrid War", a mix of Soft Political Tactics and covert military actions, use of coercion, banking, control of resources like oil pipelines, fuel etc. It is all very complicated but highly effective and without a doubt highly intentional.
03-16-2015 12:14 PM
George1980
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXyakr View Post
Good advice on survivor hobbies. Knots, cooking, cartoons, videos, crafts etc.
Sleep disorders and PTS (D) is very complicated, group discussion/therapy with other people in your flat may help, but also try to get physical exercise it is not natural or healthy to sit around inactive in the dark for many hours and have sleep/wake hours reversed. This can lead to depression or worse. Very complicated, not much help from this simple text message. Find more comprehensive papers in your first language, with an action plan. Even people in prison can become very physically fit in a tiny space, maximize safe sunlight hours. Hope this helps.
Yes, I do exercises every morning. May be, you are right and I have to do it in evening too.
03-16-2015 11:22 AM
TXyakr
Good advice on survivor hobbies

Quote:
Originally Posted by George1980 View Post
So I was trying to find new “wartime hobbies”. And I have found it!
Firstly, I decided to learn cooking. Before it, I only could boil eggs, pasta or potatoes, and even could not fry meat. We have limited number of food, but it did not prevent me. With assistance of my wife I have learned cook national Ukrainian soup – “borshch” (I know, for English-speaking man this word sounds horrible), pilaf and cutlets. It takes over 2 months. But I really have learned to cook cutlets very good – from forcemeat with addition of potatoes, bread, onions and other food, that I could find in my refrigerator. I have to say, that cooking is perfect hobby – it can really calm you! From that moment I became main cutlet-maker in our family.
Secondly, I begun to tie knots. I was an climber a bit, so I knew knots bowline, figure 8, Alpine butterfly knot and several others. But I download books about knots and begun to learn more of them. It was like meditation. When I had electricity, I watched Youtube channels “Bored Paracord” and “Tying it all together”. I have learned about 30 knots and about 7-8 types of making bracelets. Now I forgot more than half of it, but in hard time it was good entertainment. Most important, for this hobby you do not need anything but rope.
My wife downloaded and watched Asian endless serials – “doramas”. Actually, I do not like this stuff, but I did not abuse in that special case.
I know, that it was not good, but my children spend more time watching cartoons. Yes, we try to play with them, but loud cartoon can jam sounds of explosions and it makes children more calm. Generally, I tried to force my eldest daughter to read, but it was not successful.
And then, now, in Kharkov I feel another bad thing. After “miraculous escape” I felt euphoria for one or two weeks. But then I felt strange kind of insomnia. I immerse in slumber and then my brain began works with double power. It is strange feeling – no wake, nor dream. I do not watch nightmares, just can not normal sleep – only “half-sleep” for many hours. And before war I very liked siesta nap, but now I completely can not nap.
Good advice on survivor hobbies. Knots, cooking, cartoons, videos, crafts etc.
Sleep disorders and PTS (D) is very complicated, group discussion/therapy with other people in your flat may help, but also try to get physical exercise it is not natural or healthy to sit around inactive in the dark for many hours and have sleep/wake hours reversed. This can lead to depression or worse. Very complicated, not much help from this simple text message. Find more comprehensive papers in your first language, with an action plan. Even people in prison can become very physically fit in a tiny space, maximize safe sunlight hours. Hope this helps.
03-16-2015 11:01 AM
TXyakr Kharkov, to my limited knowledge of the region, is in northern Ukraine fairly close to the border with Russian on a relatively major highway (North-South) between Moscow and Sevastopol, Crimea. Ethnic Russian population there is somewhere around 20%? but has fluctuated a lot recently. I'm not there so don't doubt that this is a relatively safe area of Ukraine but from thousands of miles away it does not appear to be. Just because people are ethnically Russian does not mean that they want Ukraine to become a slave state of Russian's 21st century empire or a member of EU or NATO. Much like: just because people from Puerto Rico served in the US Military it does not mean they want it to become a State of the USA, some independence and autonomy is often a good thing.
03-16-2015 05:51 AM
bunkerbuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insneaker View Post
But I have to say it aloud because nobody else have said it that George left the building pretty much right after leaving his paypal details here first. So at this moment, this whole topic fit more than very well in "traditional internet money scam" -category.
George made a mistake. Who hasn't?
No one I am aware of has a perfect history & never made a mistake.
I would wager large sums, you have made a mistake before.

For a moment imagine what it would be like yourself to have:

The portion of your county (where you live) forcefully invaded by well armed Russians & supported by an ethnic Russian minority there.

Indiscriminate rocket fire & artillery shelling destroys the local infrastructure, economy, and the bulk of jobs & employment opportunities.

The government cuts off normal support, banking & pensions to that "occupied" part of the country (because of the conflict)

Your dwelling, apartment or home is critically damaged or destroyed.

You, wife & children attempt to flee to the "free" part of Ukraine.
In doing so, you subject yourself to detainment, arrest, being robbed, and/or having to make bribes to escape.

End result is you & family end up in a distant city, with little money, little help & no (or very few) job opportunities.

What "support” that is available (from the government or privately supported aid organizations) is often a bureaucratic nightmare to get, sparse, not enough, to little & to late.

The “locals” look down on you, as if this conflict & circumstance is your fault, you-family-relatives cause local problems, thinking you are a near homeless worthless refugee beggar.

Often rental flat advertisements state; Refugees need not apply.

Almost every waking moment your thoughts are primarily about your families “survival”: in such difficult circumstances, e.g., little money, few or no jobs, what jobs exist pay little, huge inflation, depleted currency value, facing hunger, loss of electric power, or eviction for non-payment of your bills.

You create an account and become a member of a predominantly American “Prepper” & “Survival” oriented website. Then post about your situation & how you are surviving in it. Your intent is to “help ” SB members by posting information about your escape, the dangers & problems you have, and how difficult it is to survive as a refugee family in a new city in the free part of Ukraine.

A few of the more sympathetic SB board members offered George some sort of direct “helping hand to a hand in need” help - either a care package or money. George, seeing a ray of sunlight, jumps at the opportunity. Who would not in his situation? George posted a “PayPal” address (quickly removed by Admin).

The less or un-sympathetic began to advise donating to major charitable organization instead. Suggesting there may be the possibility George is running a “scam”. Please realize “George” came on-board SB to help us, not the reverse. Donating to some major charity isn't going to help George directly.

If you want to help George and his family directly, simply PM him saying so.
I am sure he will respond.

George's situation isn't unique.

http://www.undispatch.com/idp-crisis-ukraine/

http://america.aljazeera.com/article...iv-locals.html
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