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Thread: Could You Garden Successfully in Venezuela's Grid Down / Collapse Conditions? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-18-2019 10:28 AM
Velvet Elvis “Man does not live by chestnut alone”..... ha!
04-18-2019 08:54 AM
barnetmill
Quote:
Once the sugar is dissolved, add the chopped chestnuts, taking the mixture off the heat. Bottle immediately into hot jars, seal and turn upside down for about half an hour. Use as a sandwich spread.
Chestnut butter wow. at this link is some information on chestnuts relative to diet. https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/ben...nuts-2283.html They are low in fats and are high in complex carbohydrates. At one time in many parts of the eastern USA they were an important food item prior to the chestnut blight. I have 3 blight resistant dunstan chestnuts that are now mature enough to bear nuts and have planted diverse chinese chestnut seedlings around my place. Right now I am waiting for tassels to appear on my trees. They were until recently badly shaded. I removed some of the shade this year and during the summer I will take down some more of the shading oaks with hopes of a better nut crop.
I also have some chinquapin x chinese chestnut hybrids.
04-18-2019 06:40 AM
Major Mjolnir
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
...I can likely figure out a way to store chestnuts long term. ...
From here: https://www.lost-in-france.com/blog/...autumns-bounty
"You can easily preserve chestnuts through the winter, after removing them from their green prickly husks make sure they are perfectly dry then place them in a wooden box or barrel between layers of dry fine sand much like the method used to preserve carrots."

...and a couple of intriguing recipes here, especially the one with whiskey : https://www.italymagazine.com/commun...ving-chestnuts

"Castagne Sotto Whisky
Ingredients: 1 kg Chestnuts, 1 litre whisky, 500g sugar
Method: Peel chestnuts Choose the largest and best looking chestnuts and keep them as whole as possible. Place the whisky in a saucepan and stir in the sugar. Bring the mixture to the boil. Add the chestnuts and turn off the heat. Leave to cool and bottle into clean jars."

"Marmellata di Fagioli e Castagne
This is a kind of substitute for the ubiquitous Nutella, just better and less sickly sweet.
Ingredients: 400g dried white beans, 150g sugar, 400g chestnuts
Method: Soak the beans overnight in plenty of water. Drain and boil in fresh water until soft, then whiz them to a fine puree in a food processor. In the meantime peel the chestnuts and chop them finely. Put the bean puree back into the saucepan and, over a low flame stirring constantly, add the sugar. Once the sugar is dissolved, add the chopped chestnuts, taking the mixture off the heat. Bottle immediately into hot jars, seal and turn upside down for about half an hour. Use as a sandwich spread."
04-15-2019 11:54 AM
barnetmill
Quote:
Originally Posted by st0n3 View Post
Have you considered truffles?

Apparently there's already a naturally growing native pecan truffle in south ga and presumably in your area as well.

https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/food-...VlGwbWk62qg7O/
I will look into it. Sounds fascinating.
04-15-2019 08:07 AM
st0n3
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
My efforts have been towards getting fruit trees and also chestnuts planted first. Blight resistant chestnuts I found grow real well in my climate. I can likely figure out a way to store chestnuts long term.
Have you considered truffles?

Apparently there's already a naturally growing native pecan truffle in south ga and presumably in your area as well.

https://www.ajc.com/lifestyles/food-...VlGwbWk62qg7O/
04-15-2019 07:24 AM
FarmerChad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper View Post
Yesterday I was talking to someone whom has "farm status" and pays lower property tax but thinks she is opting out of the new mandatory registration of private wells used for farm purposes, these will be taxed here in our part of Canada. I think she is delusional now she has projected herself as a farm benefiting from that status and having a farm stand, accepting government money to employ student helpers and using woofers . Her well is now open to scrutiny and taxation , not a big step further to taxing her property for not producing to capacity for the public or government benefit or being assigned under other management if food production became critical . Our country imports 10.5 billion dollars in fruit and vegetables a year now and is welcoming more refugees , setting up social nets for all those downtrodden . If something goes off the deep end like Venezuela, accepting government funds may be akin to them taking over management of her property .
Exact-a-mundo. I think CA. wants rural folks to register their wells. All for the good of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonya1 View Post
We could survive on our farm if the grid went down, but we would not be able to defend it against a hostile government. Nothing we can do about that. But, I think if it came to that I would burn it all to the ground and kill as many of them as I could before they kill us. Scary thoughts, but realistic.

Venezuela can't be that bad yet, there are no massive deaths due to starvation, crime, lack of medical care or the blackout. At least you don't hear about it. I do wonder what its really like there. People on here have this idea that if the grid went down millions of people would just die. This isn't what's happening in Venezuela. Humans are sort of like cockroaches. It takes a lot to decimate the population.
You make several good points. People are getting by, but that's about it.
04-14-2019 06:55 PM
barnetmill For myself, my land is zoned as residential and so is unlikely to be on anyone's watch list. Many people living in residences do plant a few fruit trees in my area. I just happen to have a lot more than most other people. My efforts have been towards getting fruit trees and also chestnuts planted first. Blight resistant chestnuts I found grow real well in my climate. I can likely figure out a way to store chestnuts long term. Beside nuts, citrus while not for storing, can stay on the tree through most of the winter here, especially grape fruit like citrus. I just planted some medlars which are a late fall or early winter fruit and need to bleated rather than eaten when mature. Peanuts do well here and hope yams and sweet potatoes will also. I just put in the last of my paw paws today. For spring it is berries, mulberries, and loquats. Then the early nectarines and chickasaw plums, by then early apples and pears about 1st of july are getting ready. The asian pears are the last of the pears. Then come the persimmons for fall.
later this summer I will start preparing land for gardens and finally storing a year's supply of food for me and my dogs.
The fruit tree cultivars tend to mature at different times of the season and there will be no one time that every tree has fruit on it. It is more like picking throughout the year. That is not the sort of crop that will attract governmental attention, but could attract some trailer trash that according to roads are 3 miles away, but across a large swampy creak wet lands about 0.5 miles away.
04-14-2019 04:12 PM
Hilltopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerChad View Post
And to think, all those small family farms that applied for the grant money to build greenhouses. I'm sure the .gov would be more then happy to go thru the docs, to find out exactly where all these are.

I have had a few people tell me I need to apply so I can get another GH or two built. Would I like a couple more, sure. Do I want to be a "registered farm", hell no. I will build those GHs as my good fortune allows.
Yesterday I was talking to someone whom has "farm status" and pays lower property tax but thinks she is opting out of the new mandatory registration of private wells used for farm purposes, these will be taxed here in our part of Canada. I think she is delusional now she has projected herself as a farm benefiting from that status and having a farm stand, accepting government money to employ student helpers and using woofers . Her well is now open to scrutiny and taxation , not a big step further to taxing her property for not producing to capacity for the public or government benefit or being assigned under other management if food production became critical . Our country imports 10.5 billion dollars in fruit and vegetables a year now and is welcoming more refugees , setting up social nets for all those downtrodden . If something goes off the deep end like Venezuela, accepting government funds may be akin to them taking over management of her property .
04-14-2019 03:02 PM
sonya1 We could survive on our farm if the grid went down, but we would not be able to defend it against a hostile government. Nothing we can do about that. But, I think if it came to that I would burn it all to the ground and kill as many of them as I could before they kill us. Scary thoughts, but realistic.

Venezuela can't be that bad yet, there are no massive deaths due to starvation, crime, lack of medical care or the blackout. At least you don't hear about it. I do wonder what its really like there. People on here have this idea that if the grid went down millions of people would just die. This isn't what's happening in Venezuela. Humans are sort of like cockroaches. It takes a lot to decimate the population.
04-14-2019 02:24 PM
FarmerChad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopper View Post

I also do not want to be identified as a farm, I have no doubt the government would preasure farms to produce in a socialistic manner so my small time permaculture efforts are what I count on keeping me under the radar .
And to think, all those small family farms that applied for the grant money to build greenhouses. I'm sure the .gov would be more then happy to go thru the docs, to find out exactly where all these are.

I have had a few people tell me I need to apply so I can get another GH or two built. Would I like a couple more, sure. Do I want to be a "registered farm", hell no. I will build those GHs as my good fortune allows.
04-14-2019 10:43 AM
Hilltopper I have been watching various components of that Venezuela situation and they have generally a year round growing climate and decent soils and rains so those whom jumped in to situations where they are cooperatively growing or set up on family plots of land with extended family and have been practicing growing could well be maintaining reasonably and they are not going to be talking about it . Way before the politics got this far they were food insecure there , just as there are here. There are people abound whom would drown in half a glass of water . We are having massive problems with population whom make choices that put themselves at risk , I just happen to be one that has put my nose to the grindstone at an early age and made choices to be set for resiliency . I think venezuelans will have people no different than myself. The one prepper sort reporting in here, Greg, didn't talk about even trying to grow some peppers until he was forced to accept money from the outside and inevitably moved outside the country to try to support his family . I on the other hand living in a more secure country but with a far more adverse growing climate , have moved specifically to place myself in an area where there is water to grow , privacy , some space to farm on a small family scale and I have worked to improve soils, plant a diverse number of fruit and nut plants , veggies, and venture to work at raising goats, rabbits and poultry and waterfowl for meat, eggs, and milk . I have done it at least and work towards doing it more efficiently , long before I actually need to. And I would think some Venezuelans could read the writing on the wall and have done likewise, they are not all diving dumpsters . I would still be hard pressed to survive in my climate right now if I were in their situation, securely growing enough food and harvesting wood for heat , but my odds are improving all the time at providing the food my family would need if indeed I also had their labour to help . On my own, I am making headway slowly and there is certainly opportunity to step up the game substantially . But I would have to say I would be floundering if it were grid down, and insecure from being raided , and given the climate here over that there, I would be very hard pressed at present and unlikely to successfully support myself , let alone my family . Ten years more down the road that could be a very different story with my perenial crops kicking in and that is what I am working towards .

I also do not want to be identified as a farm, I have no doubt the government would preasure farms to produce in a socialistic manner so my small time permaculture efforts are what I count on keeping me under the radar .
04-14-2019 07:26 AM
mtnairkin The problem as I see it, we will always have the rule. The catch is trying to define if it's the rule of just (as in fair & justice) laws or the rule of outlaws.
04-13-2019 08:59 PM
n1d
CAW

Solid post..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
In answer to your question in the thread title, yes I could.

I have the resources, consumables and land - and I have practiced enough to know I can do it. I also have long established food producing trees that are between 20 and about a hundred years old.

I also have a cattle herd (although I note this thread is about gardening).

But as is always the case where you are (or would be) gardening to feed yourself when others can not (or at least in Venezuela) when others are not getting enough to eat. As I understand it, Venezuelans are not quite starving yet, but most struggle to buy enough food.

That brings me to the challenge in the case of Venezuela:

1) People there are hungry but not quite starving
2) The ROL is weak and unreliable, but not yet absent
3) The ROL is enforced by police/military who are not being paid - but are still turning up for work because it is better than being one of the ordinary folks (and they get fringe benefits from that)

As a result of the "in between" nature of their situation, theft of food is most likely rife and would make growing food any where but the most remote parts of the countryside a bit futile (as it would be stolen before you could benefit from it). Alternatively they might be able to make a deal with the local police for protection, but that would most likely cost them most of the food they grow.

Even if the person growing the garden had guns, and if they chose to defend their food with those guns, the police would probably turn up, take them away and put them in a crowded prison full of hungry people.

This highlights the real world problems of these in between conditions. Many here have an idea of what they would do to protect their property/food if the ROL is still in place and then have different plans as to what they would do if the ROL were gone.

But the real challenge is what to do if the ROL is weak - but still in place to some degree.
04-13-2019 05:21 PM
hardcalibres
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis View Post
That really cuts to the heart of EP gardening in my opinion. They are not in a true EMP type grid down, but given their circumstances they are essentially living much that way. Must be horrible. It could last for years.

That's why I survival garden for the most part like I'm in a grid down existence.
In answer to your question in the thread title, yes I could.

I have the resources, consumables and land - and I have practiced enough to know I can do it. I also have long established food producing trees that are between 20 and about a hundred years old.

I also have a cattle herd (although I note this thread is about gardening).

But as is always the case where you are (or would be) gardening to feed yourself when others can not (or at least in Venezuela) when others are not getting enough to eat, security is the challenge. As I understand it, Venezuelans are not quite starving yet, but most struggle to buy enough food.

That brings me to the challenge in the case of Venezuela:

1) People there are hungry but not quite starving
2) The ROL is weak and unreliable, but not yet absent
3) The ROL is enforced by police/military who are not being paid - but are still turning up for work because it is better than being one of the ordinary folks (and they get fringe benefits from that)

As a result of the "in between" nature of their situation, theft of food is most likely rife and would make growing food any where but the most remote parts of the countryside a bit futile (as it would be stolen before you could benefit from it). Alternatively they might be able to make a deal with the local police for protection, but that would most likely cost them most of the food they grow.

Even if the person growing the garden had guns, and if they chose to defend their food with those guns, the police would probably turn up, take them (and the guns) away and put them in a crowded prison full of hungry people.

This highlights the real world problems of these in between conditions. Many here have an idea of what they would do to protect their property/food if the ROL is still in place and then have different plans as to what they would do if the ROL were gone.

But the real challenge is what to do if the ROL is weak - but still in place to some degree.
04-13-2019 12:42 PM
Velvet Elvis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
Yep. I didn't notice that as I didn't click on the links since I refuse to visit anyones site or youtube channel when they come here to shill their enterprise. I usually try and take posts at face value rather than as a preview of something else.
Sure, I get that. Just trying to answer your question and clear up the confusion.
04-13-2019 11:11 AM
n1d
CAW

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnairkin View Post
I might add that when I was a teenager my grandfather became too old to spade his own garden. Small backyard garden that only supplemented his food supply. For a few years I was the one assigned to spade his garden each spring.

Another point is that if I were not bothered by other people (again it would depend on the nature of the shutdown), I'd have enough fuel and supplies that I could manage a long period of transition before needing to go completely manual. I would minimize the use of fuel as much as possible to stretch the fuel supply.

As in most scenarios I can imagine, the BIG if is what will be the actions of other people and how much protection might still exist. People growing enough food for more than themselves might even warrant special protection. I don't plan on it though. I am more wary about authoritarian control than I am about potential bandits.
yupcaw x100.......
04-13-2019 07:41 AM
barnetmill
Quote:
Originally Posted by st0n3 View Post
My point about stealth gardening... it doesn't actually look like food....

Last year, my little everglades tomatoes grew up through a big pokeweed... take a brave person to be picking the red berries among the purple...

And...
cucumis anguria?



Most people aren't likely to suspect veggies among the weeds...
especially when it isn't anything they've ever eaten...
That kind of a garden would be useful supplement, but could you get enough out of such stealth plants to actually feed yourself and others through the year?
How many lbs of produce will you get out of it?
Marijuana growers sometimes grow the crops like that on someone else's land as a way to avoid being caught the with plants on their land. It is important not to leave a readily visible trail to your stealth plantings.
04-13-2019 03:02 AM
Aerindel
Quote:
Perhaps you overlooked the quotation marks and the fact that the paragraph tails off....... Its's a preview of the article.
Yep. I didn't notice that as I didn't click on the links since I refuse to visit anyones site or youtube channel when they come here to shill their enterprise. I usually try and take posts at face value rather than as a preview of something else.
04-12-2019 05:04 PM
st0n3
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
i have doubts about just how hidden any stealth garden would if it is not hidden on your land.

People will br foraging in the woods. If for nothing else to hunt and lay traps.
Someone will find a hidden plot or even that forgotten fruit tree that no one was suppose to know about.
My point about stealth gardening... it doesn't actually look like food....

Last year, my little everglades tomatoes grew up through a big pokeweed... take a brave person to be picking the red berries among the purple...

And...
cucumis anguria?



Most people aren't likely to suspect veggies among the weeds...
especially when it isn't anything they've ever eaten...
04-12-2019 11:18 AM
wilderness bushman i started to prep on this piece of ground 10 years ago in june/july,,,I have added garden area and organics to it non stop from the start ,,,in some areas I have raised the level of the soil by several inches with composted material [ horse manure ,grass clippings ,leaves],,,my belief is that once the soil is improved that much it will take several more years before it starts to deplete enough to need work, I started with good to excellent soil to start with,,look at the pics of my early gardens in my gardening tread

I work the ground with a gas powered tiller now [ around 40,000 sf] ,but I also work 40+ hours a week,,,in a grid down that's more time to work my gardens,,i got extra tools [several shovels ,hoes , rakes ect] to do it with stored and with the ground being broke and improved it gets easier every year

over a 2 years worth of seeds stored and rotated every season ,,,plus what I save and store,,working on my fruit production by planting trees and bushes,,some are just starting to produce, and I tried to save all the native fruit trees /bushes that were here,,,so I got a bunch of plums and several currant bushes that produce well ,and a raspberry patch that's over 100 feet long and around 20 feet wide,,,lol more berries than I can use ,,,I let a few select people pick the extras,,these same people are the ones welcome here to help grow ,and defend the gardens/produce

a flowing well so my water is easy to get to both now and in grid down ,,,,summer /winter it don't stop ,,,in the 10 years here I have not seen a change in flow
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