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Thread: Slugs vs buck Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-12-2019 01:48 AM
dmas An lapd cop gave me a 2 3/4" oo buck found as a souvenir back in 70s.
12-11-2019 11:59 PM
Ozone Crusade IIRC, LAPD used #4 Buck. Until I retired, I carried both a Riot Gun and a carbine. I preferred my Riot Gun when searching for a bad guy outside at night. Both firearms have their place in LE.
12-11-2019 03:16 PM
dmas Police armed with shotguns during the west hollywood shoot out were ineffective against armored bank robbers. Not sure why, maybe couldn't get close enough against rifle fire? Buckshot only available?
12-11-2019 02:58 PM
mrghostwalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by deprogramming services View Post

I'd be curious about what police carry in their shotguns, and the military too. My opinion here is speculation, but if there is a common practice among police and the military, as I assume there might be, that would be based in experience, and their common practice would be far superior to my opinion. Just keep in mind that their missions and situations are not the same as yours (or each others' for that matter), so what's best for them is not necessarily what's best for you, but what they use and why is certainly worth considering.
Someone I know is a Law Enforcement Officer who has trained with and carried a shotgun for over 30 years. He would tell you that, while Police Depts have transitioned to rifles (223/5.56), many Officers still carry 12ga because they are proven to be a top defensive weapon. Someone I know would say that Law Enforcement and Military long ago learned that 00buck it is unsurpassed against someone wanting to commit an evil act. Many Officers also carry slugs but mostly for "just in case".
Remember, with 00Buck you get nine 32cal pellets heading with great power toward the bad guy every time it goes boom. Very few types of body armor (or bodies for that matter) can withstand a hit from 00Buck unless there is a lot of distance. Within a 50 yard distance you can't go wrong with 00buck.
Someone I know has a 12ga loaded with 00Buck. He has extra rounds on the stock with a few slugs mixed in- just in case the 00buck doesn't give the necessary penetration. If some fool tried to break into his house, someone I know would skip the 9mm, the 357 and the 5.56 and pick up the 12ga every time.
12-11-2019 01:52 PM
Outpost75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozone Crusade View Post
FWIW, when I went through the LE Academy (years before anyone carried AR15s) we were taught how to turn a 00 Buck shotshell into a slug by cutting the area above the brass with your pocket knife. (Slugs are definitely preferable but it does give you an option).
Not a good idea to use cut shells. VERY often leaves part of the tube as a bore obstruction and next shot rings or bursts the barrel. If you are reduced to using these, check the bore after each shot and be prepared to brush it and remove the lodged tube.

Burst barrels from this trick are VERY well documented. British Home Guard Manual 1941 specifically warns against the practice.
12-09-2019 06:01 PM
Ozone Crusade Nope, never tried it. My impression is they would have to be dropped into the chamber individually.
12-09-2019 05:51 AM
dmas Claymore projectiles travel like 3x faster than buckshot, much more powerful.
Cut shells can be fired from single or double barrel but fired from tube magazine they can leak from shock and jam action. That's what I've heard, did you actually use cut shells in police guns?
12-09-2019 05:06 AM
Ozone Crusade FWIW, when I went through the LE Academy (years before anyone carried AR15s) we were taught how to turn a 00 Buck shotshell into a slug by cutting the area above the brass with your pocket knife. (Slugs are definitely preferable but it does give you an option).
11-26-2019 04:25 PM
HappyPappy Claymore mine is buck shot, body armor doesn't stand a chance.
11-26-2019 12:28 PM
ForgedInTheFlame
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrioticAmerican View Post
7/8 oz slugs at 1800 fps.



Body armor defeats buckshot. Slugs can kill even if the target uses body armor that stops the slug, but not all body armor stops 1800 fps projectiles.
Most people have a nil chance of having to defend their home against people wearing body armor lol.

Weak argument for the actual thread topic imo.

Sent from my Note 8 using Tapatalk
11-26-2019 09:49 AM
woodyp If you use a double barrel of any type----load one of each and pick!
11-24-2019 08:08 PM
Hank FYI- Federal 3 #1 buck- 24 , .30 cal pellets. 2/34 #1 buck-20 .30 cal pellets. Beats 00 all to pieces IMHO. I think other brands are the same or similar. 3 is like a bolt of lightning on deer under 45 yds. 2 3/4 almost as good. Very efficient load.
11-23-2019 09:58 PM
Profreed I load OO Buck, 4 0 buck, BB, OO buck. That way I can tell the judge I was not trying to kill, just stop.
11-23-2019 09:46 PM
TENNGRIZZ BUCK SHOT NOT A DOUBT IN MY MIND , but with that said I keep 2 on hand one a smooth bore 835 in condition 3 with some left over turkey loads of #4 shot ready to go , a shoulder bag with a variety of buck shot from #4 2-/34 all the way up to tri-ball in 3-1/2 . the other is a Mossberg 935 with a rifled barrel and Remington Copper solid slugs just in case of skynet. LOL and S/FI!
11-23-2019 09:45 PM
PatrioticAmerican 7/8 oz slugs at 1800 fps.

Body armor defeats buckshot. Slugs can kill even if the target uses body armor that stops the slug, but not all body armor stops 1800 fps projectiles.
11-23-2019 09:42 PM
CrypticCRICKET I like both slugs and buck. #2 buckshot loaded back into retail target loads (1200 FPS) for indoors home defense (works in both 12 and 20 gauge). Low recoil slugs for outdoors H.D. and for hunting hogs in Florida woody scrubby areas. Flight control buckshot I trust for hunting and outdoors home defense because of how tight it patterns.
11-23-2019 08:45 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck91 View Post
Pretty straight forward question. All other factors being equal, would you prefer slugs or buckshot for home defense? What about for SHTF shelter in place defense? Lets assume we are not considering over penetration as a factor in this discussion. I suppose to be specific, lets discuss 12 gauge 00 buck verse 12 gauge 3/4 to 1 ounce foster style slugs (or similar).
FOR HOME defense.. lets be honest... you could use #9 skeet loads at those ranges inside a house and kill someone just as dead without all the extra mess because the skeet load won't penetrate through a body. How do I know?
One of my many homeycides was an RA guy who took a full load of 9s from a Browning Sweet 16(16ga for those who don't recognize it) The cook at this restaurant saw the robbery going down, went to a different door and at about 12 feet the BG took the whole load in right front chest as he turned to see the cook.
NOW..
at that range, the difference between trap loads from a 12ga or a 16ga is fairly negligible. The coroner said his innerds looked like he swallowed a porcupine that exploded inside. None of the shot came close to exiting.

another homeycide was a 12ga running 7 1/2 low brass out of a cylinder bore at about 9 feet. The shootee was about 220lbs and was hit almost dead center solar plexus. He was pretty dinged up and probably dead a long time before he hit the ground. Again no through penetration.

THAT said..
SLugs are great for penetration but remove the fudge factor that is what makes the scattergun famous. I have had the experience of using both on the job for different situations, BUT... because I had the luxury of being able to switch from one load to the other without worrying about getting overrun by opposition, I don't know if further on this would be applicable.
SO
if over penetration is not an issue,
then it depends on what bbl length and choke you are using and at what distance you see engagement as the issue
because unless you are using a REALLY SHORT bbl, your shot won't spread enough to notice the difference in a normal house sized room, so slug or buck really makes no difference at all. Dealers choice. Both will be fairly devastating.
and
let me give you a tested reference.

We used to pattern test our shotguns at the PD specifically to see at what range the WW 9 ball 00Buck load will leave the body and start sending pellets down range maybe causing "collateral damage" Our shotguns were Remmy 870s with cyl bore and 18" bbls. Once you got beyond 65 feet or longer you were going to start throwing balls off the target.(These were not SHOT CUP buffered loads but loose plastic grains) Also interesting note, production runs(lots) differed sometimes a lot on the same loads and it all had to do with the buffering as far as we could best guess. Some plastic was grainier than others, some closer to salt size... IT could make a difference of 10 feet tighter or looser pattern where balls started to lose center mass.

YOu might want to pattern your shotgun and play with loads for either tighter or looser groups depending upon your wishes. We found the Remmy 00 load was all over the place. Lacked consistency. They also dirtied the guns and actually jammed some of them because they didn't completely seal the plastic buffering inside the case. Shotguns that had been in and out of cars a lot on inspection actually had the shells in the tube jam up and the guns had to be disassembled and cleaned from all the white crap that shook out.

IF you are trying to keep the hordes away from the gates out past 25yds then the buck gives the advantage of engaging more than one person at a time as it spreads out, a slug is addressed to one specific point of aim.
09-12-2019 09:15 AM
Vodka Wizard
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmas View Post
So where do you get slugs? Or are you talking about making them?
The store. The slugs and buckshot I buy are identical in price. The good ol' Remington green and yellow box.
09-11-2019 07:04 AM
Iamfarticus I was out at the range on Saturday with my girlfriend and we were putting low-recoil slugs through my Mossbergs. Both have red-dot scopes on them and we were both shooting well within 12 yards. This is an indoor range, 12 yards is the max. I had a shoulder pad for her, but she's a little black and blue. I'm just a little sore in 1 spot. She handles the 12-gauge slugs quite well and is not at all gun shy.
09-09-2019 08:18 PM
BASS I think of "my wife defending herself if I am not around".

Twenty gauge buckshot she can handle. Twelve gauge she has hard time handling. My choice has her as a major consideration, 20 gauge with buckshot for her.

I can handle 12 gauge 3 inch with no problem. I store only 2 3/4 inch because I don't want her to "get confused with size of the shells". She may grab a twelve gauge with ammo on the stock. Trust me she can shoot your butt if you attack her. She is well trained to defend herself.

You should consider others in your group when deciding on arms and ammo for them.
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