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Thread: Can High Lumen Flashlights Be An Instrument of Aggression? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-01-2019 02:36 PM
~Black.Dog~ Agreed on the overuse of dazzling lights by police and rescue. I'm not epileptic but golly sometimes I think I might be when I come up on a wreck or something.
I do use my high lumen lights occasionally to run people out of my parking lot when I'm pulling all nighters. It's become less of an issue over the years since we've been there. The first few years we had a lot of people trying to do drug deals. The building is outside of town and off of the new highway and had been empty a few years before we moved in. As such, it had become a good meeting point for deals. Between me running people off, keeping the gates (chains) across the entrances and help from increased attention by the State Troopers and Sheriff's deputies it's hardly a problem now. It's actually more likely these days that it's divorced parents meeting to swap the kiddos than drug deals. Word has gotten out to the druggies that the owner is there a lot and he don't play.
Edit to add: I have to admit to a certain amount of satisfaction at seeing the young punks buttholes tighten up at being suddenly blinded and illuminated by a high lumen light. Especially the guy who jumped so high he flung the powder in his lap all over his car when I lit him up.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
09-01-2019 02:07 PM
Central Scrutinizer
Quote:
Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
It's funny you bring this up because I was just discussing this with my son (cop). He said he often has a problem with homeowners confronting them with pistols (not knowing who they are) and then because of the flashlight blinding them is hesitant in dropping the weapon. We were discussing ways to make it safer for both parties.

Yes, high lumen flashlights are aggressive. So are the lights on a cops car when they are right on your ass, instead of giving you a little space so you can move over three lanes to the side of the road. (yes, from experience). The SUV's make this very dangerous.
I think LE needs to think about lighting in general.

1. LED's lights are not the proper illumination for roadside drug testing.

2. The use of flashlights to dazzle suspects as well as confusing orders barked loudly by one or more officers can result in an innocent person being shot for making an incorrect move. There needs to be a more measured approach. Call for back up, keep distance, don't fly in gung ho like Rambo.

3. The emergency lights on emergency vehicles have become ludicrously distracting. They have gone beyond their purpose to attract attention to becoming a dangerous distraction. It is not surprise that drivers are plowing into police cars. Are drivers having seizures? Are they distracted? There is a fixation phenomenon where if you focus on not hitting an object, you will actually find yourself steering into it. From my own experience, one night driving home from the airport, an exit was partially closed by emergency vehicles. There was someone flagging me to come forward but beyond him was a fireworks show of flashing lights. I did not see that I could safely go beyond that point and turned back onto the road and took another route. The technology and the application are flawed in the premise that more is better.
09-01-2019 01:21 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
Today's high-lumen flashlights are awesome. Having one shone in your face is not so awesome.

Last night had a neighbor walking his dogs in the evening unintentionally shine one in my face as he passed the house. I said hello as he passed and he instinctively used raised his light to see where I was. It really ****ed me off took a good minute before I was calm again.

It also made me think of how people must feel when LEO's are shining high lumen flashlight while working. I have been "lasered" while passing LEO directing traffick at night and nearly had to pull over and recover.

Do you think high lumen flashlights can be used/or considered as an act of aggression?
ONLY if the user is with the EMPEROR and THE DARK SIDE of the FORCE.

Seriously, I would not shoot someone for shining a flashlight in my face without a HUGE something else added to it.
08-23-2019 12:57 PM
SeaBeeDaddy
08-21-2019 07:59 AM
Snyper708 I hope y'all aren't walking around with guns if you're ready to fight because someone shines a light in your eyes.
08-14-2019 10:35 PM
elsapo I wear special reflective glasses like in the movie looker that reflects it back.
08-07-2019 02:06 PM
arleigh As a kid in the early 1960s I found some antique flash bulbs and rigged on in a flash light as a defensive tool, should some one break into my home.
Ideally a strobe would be superior at the time, but being a poor kid that is what I had.
Having worked in dark environments I learned how to hold one eye shut while venturing into day light to preserve my night vision in one eye.
It is a skill that has Paid off many times .
You may not believe it but this is what makes a pirate eye patch valuable on a ship.
I have worked on replica square riggers and it's dark down there. and if you attempt to just go down stairs and walk around, your head will take a beating going between rooms .
Point is , if there is a possibility of being flashed, close one eye ,and preserve your night vision. It takes practice and discipline but worth it in the long run. You can do this while driving at night for the on coming traffic.
08-07-2019 12:04 PM
Cornly2
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaBeeDaddy View Post
I can see how a modern flashlight could turn a routine traffic stop or encounter with a homeowner into a heated moment. The LEO need to see what they are doing so can't fault them for it. But as we saw with the recent homeowner shooting in Simpsonville SC, it can cause the person being lit up to not react in a typical manner.

In that case the deputy was instigating a panic alarm that the homeowner was unaware of. Deputy rang the doorbell and homeowner got his gun to see who it was at 11:54am. When deputy saw homeowner through the window he lit him up with a high lumen light, homeowner instinctively raises gun, deputy shoots him through the window.

A bad set of circumstances all around.
I agree with you that LEO needs to see what they are doing, but that doesn't require shining the light in someones face. The torso area or just a light up of a general area seems sufficient. If the situation seems possibly aggressive then I get it. But I see on shows where some cops just go straight for the eyeballs on routine traffic stops, for no apparent reason.

I think shining a light, especially a high lumen light, in someone's face can be instantly disabling, especially at night. Heck as kids we used to do it to each other on purpose just to be jackasses to each other. There's nothing more hilarious than watching your buddy walk into a tree or fall in the river because he's been blinded.

A quick amazon search on those modern lights show that many of them actually advertise their blinding abilities, for defensive use of course. But clearly this implies it could be used for offensive use as well. So to me this means aggressive use.
08-07-2019 11:37 AM
SeaBeeDaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by America's Patriot View Post
It's funny you bring this up because I was just discussing this with my son (cop). He said he often has a problem with homeowners confronting them with pistols (not knowing who they are) and then because of the flashlight blinding them is hesitant in dropping the weapon. We were discussing ways to make it safer for both parties.

Yes, high lumen flashlights are aggressive. So are the lights on a cops car when they are right on your ass, instead of giving you a little space so you can move over three lanes to the side of the road. (yes, from experience). The SUV's make this very dangerous.
I can see how a modern flashlight could turn a routine traffic stop or encounter with a homeowner into a heated moment. The LEO need to see what they are doing so can't fault them for it. But as we saw with the recent homeowner shooting in Simpsonville SC, it can cause the person being lit up to not react in a typical manner.

In that case the deputy was instigating a panic alarm that the homeowner was unaware of. Deputy rang the doorbell and homeowner got his gun to see who it was at 11:54am. When deputy saw homeowner through the window he lit him up with a high lumen light, homeowner instinctively raises gun, deputy shoots him through the window.

A bad set of circumstances all around.
08-07-2019 11:12 AM
SeaBeeDaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Auberry View Post
Bird shot to the face is about as less lethal as I would risk my life on.
Hey John, thread is not about using a light as a weapon, but how its misuse can have negative repercussions.
08-07-2019 07:22 AM
bilmac I worked on a wildlife refuge and we had a regulation that people could not enter a popular duck hunting area until a specific time in the morning. But folks were sneaking in in the early early hours to get the best spots. Some were even hiring people to go in and stake out a spot for them. So we had to patrol the area.

I thought I was sneaking up on a boat that was illegal and got almost to the side of it when they turned a high power light on me from just a few feet away. I had NO idea of what was going on on the other side of that light and told them to shut it off and was raising my Maglight, it was off, to hit someone at the same time. Luckily they got it off in time or they and I would have probably ended up in court sorting out who was to blame for broken bones.

My justification would have been that I wanted to go home to wife and kids that night, instead of laying face down in the river. That was the most aggressive action I ever did in 20 yrs of wildlife Law enforcement.
08-07-2019 06:35 AM
John_Auberry Bird shot to the face is about as less lethal as I would risk my life on.
08-05-2019 05:28 PM
America's Patriot It's funny you bring this up because I was just discussing this with my son (cop). He said he often has a problem with homeowners confronting them with pistols (not knowing who they are) and then because of the flashlight blinding them is hesitant in dropping the weapon. We were discussing ways to make it safer for both parties.

Yes, high lumen flashlights are aggressive. So are the lights on a cops car when they are right on your ass, instead of giving you a little space so you can move over three lanes to the side of the road. (yes, from experience). The SUV's make this very dangerous.
08-05-2019 05:10 PM
dontbuypotteryfromme
Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanPolygraph View Post
There is a phenomenon called "Flicker Vertigo" that can be induced with today's high lumen lights. Might could explain some things.
I think it would be uncommon. Otherwise you would be hauling bodies out of night clubs because of it.
08-05-2019 05:02 PM
dontbuypotteryfromme
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYOP Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Millennials and their gadgets.
FYI..

i'm 53yrs old, hardly a millennial, and over here, we are allowed to have gadgets and less lethal options like batons and pepper spray for self defense...

it's called Use-of-Force Continuum, and anyone serious about self protection should be well versed in it, and the application of it...

You guys, Australia, have been disarmed and emasculated...
Look. I get it. I know kids who can't leave the house without their phone as well.

They just look lost when it comes to relying on themselves rather than technology.

Part of the wussification that has been going on that someone needs all this stuff to feel empowered.
08-05-2019 03:52 PM
SeaBeeDaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanPolygraph View Post
There is a phenomenon called "Flicker Vertigo" that can be induced with today's high lumen lights. Might could explain some things.
Thanks I'll look that up.

Here is an example of escalation due to poor light handling (both parties).

I do not support the camera guy's attitude or viewpoints it is simply an example of how a simple situation continuously escalated using lights.

Caution:Language.

08-05-2019 03:33 PM
HumanPolygraph There is a phenomenon called "Flicker Vertigo" that can be induced with today's high lumen lights. Might could explain some things.
08-05-2019 09:41 AM
PSYOP Soldier
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
Millennials and their gadgets.
FYI..

i'm 53yrs old, hardly a millennial, and over here, we are allowed to have gadgets and less lethal options like batons and pepper spray for self defense...

it's called Use-of-Force Continuum, and anyone serious about self protection should be well versed in it, and the application of it...

You guys, Australia, have been disarmed and emasculated...
08-05-2019 02:47 AM
dontbuypotteryfromme
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYOP Soldier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbuypotteryfromme View Post
I have done a lot of conflict.

My theory is to giving people the benefit of the doubt and asking the nicely generally gets you what you want.

Also communicating what I am doing and going to do works really well here.

If they are still shining a thousand Lm torch in my face then I would probably slap them. And it would be defensible.
you won't get close enough to slap me before my ASP baton or pepper spray rocks your world...jus sayin..this ain't Australia....my world is is redneckery NC...

not gonna happen jack....
Millennials and their gadgets.
08-04-2019 06:56 PM
PSYOP Soldier
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
Ok...so less of a “take a walk down by the river” and more of a “patrol my perimeter”...much less pricky than I was thinking.
You can still address me as: Master Prick, Mr. Prick, Sir Prick, Porch Honky Prick or any other variation...

I own it....
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