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Thread: Slugs vs buck Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-24-2019 02:43 PM
NW GUY ONE of my more ... experimental acquaintances makes his own "chain shot" for home defense. He uses split shot lead sinkers for the load wired together with some kind of fine piano wire.
I told him for house distance I didn't even think it would spread enough to make a difference but as I said, he is enthusiastic.

So far he hasn't peopleized it but I saw what happened to a couple of rabbits and it was NOT pretty.

Seriously, at home defense range with a 12ga loaded with anything except maybe dust, you are fairly certain of being the last man standing.
12-24-2019 01:56 PM
Chuckleberry `

For home defense shotgun ammo, I use buck & ball. A 1oz rifled slug w/ three 00 buck pellets.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_...ducts_id/62626



.
12-24-2019 01:36 PM
roseman #1 in my HD shotgun here also for inside. Slugs for outside.
12-24-2019 11:17 AM
AlphaSierraCharlie #1 Buckshot. Penetrates tissue perfectly fine at in-the house distances, but less likely to over penetrate walls. Extra pellets means I'm more likely to hit something vital, and each pellet is still large enough to do a considerable amount of damage.

Patterns the same as 00 out of my gun.

In a full on SHTF scenario I'm ditching the #1 for 00 for the extra range and penetration, and I'll have a handful of Brenneke slugs for the shots that are either longer distance or require extra penetration. If all I have is my shotgun.
12-24-2019 11:08 AM
SgtBooker44 000 Buck. The way my house is laid out, all of the kids rooms are down the hall from my room. When I built the house, I lined both sides of the walls in that hallway with 3/4" plywood and solid core doors at the other end of the hall to slow things down
12-24-2019 10:21 AM
AZ_HighCountry
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
IF YOU are talking inside the average house range.. pretty much ANYTHING out of a shotgun will be enough to stop and ruin any dusters day.
True. Yet, just saying "double aught" is usually sufficient to get most people's attention. #8 just doesn't seem to elicit the same reaction.
12-24-2019 06:29 AM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
The typical meth-head breaking into your house is unlikely to be wearing body armor. 00 buckshot is more than capable with dealing with that kind of problem.
IF YOU are talking inside the average house range.. pretty much ANYTHING out of a shotgun will be enough to stop and ruin any dusters day.
12-23-2019 10:16 PM
AZ_HighCountry
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
The only real disadvantage is that body armor defeats shotguns; so this is where a semi-auto rifle shines, is if the aggressor is clad in body armor.
The typical meth-head breaking into your house is unlikely to be wearing body armor. 00 buckshot is more than capable with dealing with that kind of problem.
12-23-2019 07:10 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchavasu View Post
I've seen both used on two legged predators. The slugs were much more effective.
I DUUNO...
I have seen both used also and I never noticed a lot of difference from the effects. Both are hugely devastating within 50 feet and in room size distance you don't get enough pattern spread to be any different than a slug anyway. I only ever saw 2 survive the 12ga at close range. One was at about 4" or a contact wound. 00buck, went in about 4" right of the navel and blew a hole out the back big enough to swallow a softball. The other was a suicide attempt and it was a contact wound to the stomach and blew everything out the back At those ranges buck or slug pretty much samey same.

Get a little distance and you just save time and bring in a body bag when you arrive.
12-22-2019 09:47 PM
jchavasu
Quote:
Originally Posted by wldrbob View Post
never used a shotgun on 2 legged predators... but on bigger 4 legged ones I prefer slugs
I've seen both used on two legged predators. The slugs were much more effective.
12-22-2019 09:08 PM
TENNGRIZZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
YEP..
The trick is to be smart enough and a little clairvoyant to know which tool fits the requirement at hand and also in the immediate future if so needed.
But
for CQB in the dark I have always been a BIG fan of the shotgun, simply for the massive amounts of lead it can send in a very short time. At night in my home and AO I don't have to worry too much about IFF. And night operation ranges are well within the range of the 12ga and if things get hostile, even a peripheral hit is fairly devastating while giving greater odds for scoring a hit.
Yes Sir inside the house plus inside the fenced yards both front and back 100 ft exactly. S/FI!
12-22-2019 09:03 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by TENNGRIZZ View Post
IMHO a shotgun is just another tool in the tool box and one can never have too many tools for that matter although I am a riflemen first i also have a Mossberg 835 loaded with #4 Turkey loads here in my office with me right now along with my Mini-14 and 1911. although I do have a fully rifled slug barrel for it and a decent amount of slugs , I have a variety of Buckshot loads from #4 buck all the way up to TRI-BALL loads. Also at night in a post shtf scenario a shotgun might be a better weapon for the watch to have during the hours of darkness. JMHO and S/FI!
YEP..
The trick is to be smart enough and a little clairvoyant to know which tool fits the requirement at hand and also in the immediate future if so needed.
But
for CQB in the dark I have always been a BIG fan of the shotgun, simply for the massive amounts of lead it can send in a very short time. At night in my home and AO I don't have to worry too much about IFF. And night operation ranges are well within the range of the 12ga and if things get hostile, even a peripheral hit is fairly devastating while giving greater odds for scoring a hit. I have the SG with a sling and while loaded with 00 there are slugs on the sling.
12-22-2019 08:42 PM
TENNGRIZZ IMHO a shotgun is just another tool in the tool box and one can never have too many tools for that matter although I am a riflemen first i also have a Mossberg 835 loaded with #4 Turkey loads here in my office with me right now along with my Mini-14 and 1911. although I do have a fully rifled slug barrel for it and a decent amount of slugs , I have a variety of Buckshot loads from #4 buck all the way up to TRI-BALL loads. Also at night in a post shtf scenario a shotgun might be a better weapon for the watch to have during the hours of darkness. JMHO and S/FI!
12-22-2019 08:40 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Ace View Post
Think of buckshot as a 10-12 round burst. Slugs have very little use in my opinion. As a 3 gun competitor, I hated having to use slugs for longer shots. Why not just use my rifle?
WHEN I shot competition there were targets you could bang on all day long with any rifle you would use in competition and they would not go down. Only thing that would drop them were slugs. Even then a low shot might not work.
12-22-2019 08:29 PM
justin22885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Ace View Post
Think of buckshot as a 10-12 round burst. Slugs have very little use in my opinion. As a 3 gun competitor, I hated having to use slugs for longer shots. Why not just use my rifle?
Short of shooting birds out of the sky, "why not just use my rifle?" can be asked in nearly every scenario where a shotgun is used.
12-22-2019 06:12 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Except each pellet is going significantly faster with corresponding dump of energy (mass x velocity). But yes, one can think of a load of buckshot as a 9 bullet burst from a 32 caliber or 9mm SMG. That's extremely potent.

For what it offers for a generic close (less than 50 feet) defensive scenario, if you can only pull the trigger 1 time, for the cost/benefit/training required there's not much better than a round of buckshot. 1-1.25 oz of lead delivered instantly. Spread is minimal but noteworthy, generally about 1-2" per 10 feet. So very close quarters it's basically a solid. Across a large room, garage, driveway, etc. it opens to the size of a pie plate. The other advantage is that it tends to lose velocity rather fast and tends to be stopped relatively quickly by barriers. Of course ALL effective HD calibers will go thru many walls and barriers. It's just that the ball nature of buckshot bleeds off speed pretty fast.

The only real disadvantage is that body armor defeats shotguns; so this is where a semi-auto rifle shines, is if the aggressor is clad in body armor.
I HAVE talked to cops who were shot with shotguns while wearing body armor. While not killing, it is fairly debilitating. I was associated with 2nd Chance for years and talked to lots of the saves and one Texas cop I talked to was hit with a 12ga slug. It broke 2 ribs, tore about a 4 inch abrasion gash across his ribs and as he said , it knocked him on his azz, he thought he was going to die.. the pain was intense and stopping. He eventually recovered and got back into the fight, but he had a nasty scar and he started wearing the plate after that.
Everyone who got shotgunned at any close range all said the same, it definitely took them out of the fight for a few before they could regroup.
12-20-2019 03:07 PM
Von Ace Think of buckshot as a 10-12 round burst. Slugs have very little use in my opinion. As a 3 gun competitor, I hated having to use slugs for longer shots. Why not just use my rifle?
12-20-2019 02:54 PM
fragout
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Except each pellet is going significantly faster with corresponding dump of energy (mass x velocity). But yes, one can think of a load of buckshot as a 9 bullet burst from a 32 caliber or 9mm SMG. That's extremely potent.

For what it offers for a generic close (less than 50 feet) defensive scenario, if you can only pull the trigger 1 time, for the cost/benefit/training required there's not much better than a round of buckshot. 1-1.25 oz of lead delivered instantly. Spread is minimal but noteworthy, generally about 1-2" per 10 feet. So very close quarters it's basically a solid. Across a large room, garage, driveway, etc. it opens to the size of a pie plate. The other advantage is that it tends to lose velocity rather fast and tends to be stopped relatively quickly by barriers. Of course ALL effective HD calibers will go thru many walls and barriers. It's just that the ball nature of buckshot bleeds off speed pretty fast.

The only real disadvantage is that body armor defeats shotguns; so this is where a semi-auto rifle shines, is if the aggressor is clad in body armor.
Would agree with you , except that any fool that is actually inside my house trying to start trouble will be shot more than once and regardless of cartridge/ shotgun shell.

The semiautomatic pistol in below pic will send a 7.62x39mm fmj , MFS JSP, SST black, or fed Fusion bullet thru multiple layers of level 3a soft armor out to at least 50 yards. ( That was my test limit using IBA and model clay) Slugs and buckshot including 3 inch shells in both didn't not make it thru the first layer.

Compact,less felt recoil/ muzzle rise via multiple shots fired, 30 to 75rd capacity, can be fired using one hand/ either hand effectively via multiple rds, and violent effects on recieving end ( I dont use ordinance gel, but shoot around 3 to 6 hogs per week here).

Use for this = HD, PDW, CCW ( Yes it works for this application if one thinks outside the box. ), close to med range hunting, truck gun, etc......

Have a semiauto 12ga and keep skeet loads for it, as its only job = fun gun, that could be used to shoot birds on the wing ( sport hunting), or an extreme close range AUAV device....lol

Roughly twice the effective range as a 12ga cylinder bore launching slugs. ( Our version of HD is a bit more " in depth", than barricading yourself inside a house safe room.)

11B
12-20-2019 06:49 AM
justin22885
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
Except each pellet is going significantly faster with corresponding dump of energy (mass x velocity). But yes, one can think of a load of buckshot as a 9 bullet burst from a 32 caliber or 9mm SMG. That's extremely potent.

For what it offers for a generic close (less than 50 feet) defensive scenario, if you can only pull the trigger 1 time, for the cost/benefit/training required there's not much better than a round of buckshot. 1-1.25 oz of lead delivered instantly. Spread is minimal but noteworthy, generally about 1-2" per 10 feet. So very close quarters it's basically a solid. Across a large room, garage, driveway, etc. it opens to the size of a pie plate. The other advantage is that it tends to lose velocity rather fast and tends to be stopped relatively quickly by barriers. Of course ALL effective HD calibers will go thru many walls and barriers. It's just that the ball nature of buckshot bleeds off speed pretty fast.

The only real disadvantage is that body armor defeats shotguns; so this is where a semi-auto rifle shines, is if the aggressor is clad in body armor.
still though, i wouldnt want to take a hit from a shotgun at that close range even with armor.. as you say the spread is very tiny and would hit almost like a slug at close distance, that certainly wouldnt be comfortable

the main reason i do not use shotguns for home defense though is i prefer an option i can use one handed, should there be a struggle, having to open doors, reaching while laying in bed, and the nerve issues i have with one of my arms, it just seems like in my situation a shotgun, especially a pump, wouldnt be the best idea
12-19-2019 09:24 PM
leadcounsel
Quote:
Originally Posted by justin22885 View Post

snip

just something to note about 00 buckshot.. 00 buckshot has about the same diameter, mass, and velocity per pellet, as a .32acp, so getting shot once with buckshot is like getting shot 9 times with a 32acp at once
Except each pellet is going significantly faster with corresponding dump of energy (mass x velocity). But yes, one can think of a load of buckshot as a 9 bullet burst from a 32 caliber or 9mm SMG. That's extremely potent.

For what it offers for a generic close (less than 50 feet) defensive scenario, if you can only pull the trigger 1 time, for the cost/benefit/training required there's not much better than a round of buckshot. 1-1.25 oz of lead delivered instantly. Spread is minimal but noteworthy, generally about 1-2" per 10 feet. So very close quarters it's basically a solid. Across a large room, garage, driveway, etc. it opens to the size of a pie plate. The other advantage is that it tends to lose velocity rather fast and tends to be stopped relatively quickly by barriers. Of course ALL effective HD calibers will go thru many walls and barriers. It's just that the ball nature of buckshot bleeds off speed pretty fast.

The only real disadvantage is that body armor defeats shotguns; so this is where a semi-auto rifle shines, is if the aggressor is clad in body armor.
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