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Thread: Military Based/Inspired SHTF Firearms Loadout Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-25-2019 11:43 PM
273andme I wish I could deploy again lol not sure Why. Im over the age to give the army a go. kind of if you subtract my other service using that funky method they use Im sure Id be fine. but down want to try it and get shafted with some BS non combat MOS.or not be able to go the direction I ultimately would want to.
12-25-2019 09:18 PM
fragout If you follow this thread way back to its beginning nonsense, no one here needs a firearm.

OP was planning to fight zombies vs a TV show, and his rather hefty " military inspired loadout" included a sword.

M14s, Fals, and Scars are all unwanted boat anchors.

I voted for a baseball bat with a bunch of nails driven thru the end at all different angles.

One could kill as many zombies as a few African nations used the Fal to execute unarmed civilians at point blank range through the noggin. ( Historic " kill counts" dont mean crap once put into context.....)

Personal preference ...vs....whatever is available. ( See pic below. The " all American" Made by FN M4A1 is my current assigned weapon via position in Infantry platoon as platoon sergant. ..ie...PSG. The other is an M249 LMG assigned to A team/ 2nd squad. )
Not all that fond of the M4A1 or M855A1, but it is currently " available".

Note: BFA for both weapons in pic along with 5.56 blanks during an FTX a few months ago.

Best weapon = The nut behind the butt. ( As much as I personally do not prefer that M4A1, you will get your money's worth out of it when Im sent to the next war.)
FWIW......Im rather fond of the M67.
Take that secret squirrels. .......lol




With that said.....

Thanks to your tax dollars, we dont deploy with bats swords or sharp sticks.

Merry Christmas everyone.




11B
12-21-2019 09:48 AM
Nomad, 2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCPigpen View Post
They are limited and outdated for the most part.
Sure, you could spend an arm and leg to get one all decked out to use modern accessories but by that time you could buy something a little more modern.
universal light mount, sling, and railed topcover for an optic.
What more do you need?
(I'll admit I prefer the barrels cut down to 18" and Paras)



Unless you got in on the cheap part kits back in the day you will pay for a decent FAL.
I come across 3-4/year In the $600-$800 range.

Mine is a carried much, shot little Imbel that can get 2 or so inch groups at 100yrds.

My eyes are getting to the point that I need its 21in barrel just so the front sight is not blurry.

Its big and relatively heavy and wouldnt the the 1st gun Id grab. But, if I had to grab it, I would know it is solid.
True.

.
12-21-2019 06:28 AM
SCPigpen
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
I've known the limitations of FALs for a very long time, but I've learned it is not wise to trash them online.

The guys that love them really love them and keep several around. Anyone stupid enough to pick a fight with guy holding an armload of FALs is likely going home in a bag. Picking online fights about them is less bloody, but no less noisy. Be kind to FAL owners is a wise motto.

As I said, for true battle rifles in 7.62N those FALs have stacked up more bodies, which given all those years the US put those M21's on hills and rooftops is saying something.

Honestly, the FALs are a bit dated for modern war, but for the guy protecting his farmhouse they won't let him down.

They will do just fine in the zombie apocalypse.
They are limited and outdated for the most part.
Sure, you could spend an arm and leg to get one all decked out to use modern accessories but by that time you could buy something a little more modern.
Unless you got in on the cheap part kits back in the day you will pay for a decent FAL.
Mine is a carried much, shot little Imbel that can get 2 or so inch groups at 100yrds.

My eyes are getting to the point that I need its 21in barrel just so the front sight is not blurry.

Its big and relatively heavy and wouldnt the the 1st gun Id grab. But, if I had to grab it, I would know it is solid.
12-21-2019 05:32 AM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCPigpen View Post
Thats why mine will work well in my area should bad things happen.
I've known the limitations of FALs for a very long time, but I've learned it is not wise to trash them online.

The guys that love them really love them and keep several around. Anyone stupid enough to pick a fight with guy holding an armload of FALs is likely going home in a bag. Picking online fights about them is less bloody, but no less noisy. Be kind to FAL owners is a wise motto.

As I said, for true battle rifles in 7.62N those FALs have stacked up more bodies, which given all those years the US put those M21's on hills and rooftops is saying something.

Honestly, the FALs are a bit dated for modern war, but for the guy protecting his farmhouse they won't let him down.

They will do just fine in the zombie apocalypse.
12-21-2019 03:11 AM
SCPigpen
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post


At a couple hundred yards though they are murderous.

On the Rhodesian mixed terrain they took a lot of scalps. Cover turned into just concealment real fast.
Thats why mine will work well in my area should bad things happen.
12-21-2019 02:07 AM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Who said?

There's a Para and a carbine leaned against my nightstand as I type this.
They just don't get the range accuracy like most other 308's and the full length is damn long.

At a couple hundred yards though they are murderous.

On the Rhodesian mixed terrain they took a lot of scalps. Cover turned into just concealment real fast.
12-21-2019 01:44 AM
Nomad, 2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Poor under appreciated FAL's. Probably killed more with 7.62 NATO than any other true battle rifle, LMGs excepted.
:
Who said?

There's a Para and a carbine leaned against my nightstand as I type this.


Suppressor host is my main interest in the SCAR.
That para is a new Argentine parts kit and is a hair over 2Moa with SA surplus machine gun ammo!
12-21-2019 01:19 AM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Fortunately my FAL/HK parts were cheap.
car!
Poor under appreciated FAL's. Probably killed more with 7.62 NATO than any other true battle rifle, LMGs excepted.

Wanted me a pair of camo shorts and a FAL after seeing those first Rhodesia pics on the early covers of SOF.
12-21-2019 12:40 AM
Nomad, 2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
It's starting to settle down about parts commonality.

agreed.


Starting.

Between the SR25 going into service and DPMS setting new prices and standards the nonstandard problem is declining fast.

AR folding side charger kits are a Brownells thing, btw.
I've seen. Still all my other objections.

I honestly hope I don't believe the SCAR to be superior. I buy parts.... Fortunately my FAL/HK parts were cheap.
M14 werent, but were compared to current prices.

Multiple rifles and what I consider adequate parts inventory would buy a decent car!
12-21-2019 12:35 AM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
Your choice.

I hate and distrust the AR platform, hate the charging handle and favor the bolt handle you don't like, do not trust the gas system and won't bother with the non-standard parts (seen too many AR10 models come.... And then go!)
It's starting to settle down about parts commonality. Between the SR25 going into service and DPMS setting new prices and standards the nonstandard problem is declining fast.

AR folding side charger kits are a Brownells thing, btw.
12-21-2019 12:09 AM
Nomad, 2nd Your choice.

I hate and distrust the AR platform, hate the charging handle and favor the bolt handle you don't like, do not trust the gas system and won't bother with the non-standard parts (seen too many AR10 models come.... And then go!)

I'm still waiting to see which of the 6.5's come out on top, OTOH got 30k of .308 and black tip .30 loose projectiles, and some tracers.

I'm not sold on the scar, but everyone I know who actually owns and shoots one says different than YouTube commandos.
So I will see. If I don't like it I will sell it.
12-20-2019 11:57 PM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
I got M1 thumb.


Once.


AK's and M14's have same... Meh
I think I'd prefer something like this instead of the SCAR: https://cmmginc.com/product/rifle-en...6-5-creedmoor/

I'd save half price off SCAR MSRP and shoot further. I could go thumbs up on this one and keep my thumb.
12-20-2019 10:31 PM
Nomad, 2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Just keep that damn off hand thumb down whatever you do.
I got M1 thumb.


Once.


AK's and M14's have same... Meh
12-20-2019 10:21 PM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
You mean.... Like the M14?


Kid I mentored became a SF weapons Sgt. Had lots good to say about the SCAR17.

I'm waiting for my trigger to come in and then I'll test one out for myself.
Just keep that damn off hand thumb down whatever you do.
12-20-2019 10:07 PM
Nomad, 2nd
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
.

Reciprocating bolt handle totally blows...

If you just want 7.62 NATO then go AR10 or M1A, .
You mean.... Like the M14?


Kid I mentored became a SF weapons Sgt. Had lots good to say about the SCAR17.

I'm waiting for my trigger to come in and then I'll test one out for myself.
12-20-2019 10:02 PM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
Yeah, I've seen that one.

I never did get much out of the average SEAL's gun opinions. Not back when I worked alongside them, worked directly for them, or while they worked directly for me. As with folks from any other SOF outfit, damn few are actually firearm SMEs. But everyone of them has an opinion.

These guys are no different. One guy self-admittedly has no experience with the weapon being discussed... the other guy carried his downrange for a month (but no doubt conducted live fire PMT workups before that deployment).

Shortly after the newness wore off, I ditched the SCAR-H and returned to carrying an M4A1 instead. Not because the SCAR sucked or that it wasn't relaible, but because hauling around a Gucci 7.62 anything (that wasn't chain driven, belt fed, or sniper accurized) was mostly a faddish idea. The juice mostly not worth the squeeze. But it sure briefed well...

Pro Tip: 1000+ yard engagements are not decided (or even moderately impacted) by infantry rifles. Not even with optics. Because none of them (5.56, 7.62 x 51, or 7.62 x 39) are designed to deliver accurate & effective fire at those ranges. And because almost nobody (outside of a well trained sniper or crew served operator) is competent enough to hit anything at that range. Which is why we employed .300 Win Mag M24s & .50 BMG Barretts. And eventually .338 Lapuas.

While I don't doubt the man's experience with stoppages in combat, it didn't seem to happen with hundreds of weapons assigned across my units. BTW: Mine worked fine.

OTOH, I instantly knew that reciprocating charging latch was trouble the first time I handled the gun. I was like "What idiot came up with this?". LOL.

YMMV.
If they get the feed issues solved and add a detached slide on the charging handle them I could see it for DMR duties.

Being accustomed to the Marine fire team concept, it was always about roles in the smallest unit. It has habitual shifted between 4 and 5 men. Leader, grenadier, and AR man stayed constant. I'm still dubious about recent ditching the AR man but I suppose it should be given time to play out. But your basic M4 guys were the leader and the newest snuffies. I always felt there needed a point man/DMR role. Call it the scout-lite gig. Team leader and the boot had general duties, and then the boot learned the rest moving up the line in time. Rifleman>Grenadier>AR>Point>Leader. The point guy also being the #2 for the team and carried longer range gear while he ranged ahead. But they didn't ask me to lecture at Quantico, so my armchair has to suffice for now. But the 7.62 SCAR -once solved- would be right for that point man job.


FN just needs to prioritize the work in any case. Also a shift to 6.5 Creedmoor in this longer range role seems wise. The 7.62 NATO is due for retirement. With the various SAW's going caseless and if the Jarheads prove the AR role is not needed anymore then hugging onto 308 for some measure of commonality for scrounging seems moot.
12-20-2019 09:04 PM
Astronomy Yeah, I've seen that one.

I never did get much out of the average SEAL's gun opinions. Not back when I worked alongside them, worked directly for them, or while they worked directly for me. As with folks from any other SOF outfit, damn few are actually firearm SMEs. But every one of them has an opinion.

These guys are no different. One guy self-admittedly has no experience with the weapon being discussed... the other guy carried his downrange for a month (but no doubt conducted live fire PMT workups before that deployment).

Shortly after the newness wore off, I ditched the SCAR-H and returned to carrying an M4A1 instead. Not because the SCAR sucked or that it wasn't reliable, but because hauling around a Gucci 7.62 anything (that wasn't chain driven, belt fed, or sniper accurized) was mostly a faddish idea. The juice mostly not worth the squeeze. But it sure briefed well...

Pro Tip: 1000+ yard engagements are not decided (or even moderately impacted) by standard infantry rifles. Not even with optics. Because none of them (5.56, 7.62 x 51, 7.62 x 54R, nor 7.62 x 39) are designed to deliver accurate & effective rifle fire at those ranges. Most especially the AK. And because almost nobody (outside of a well trained sniper or crew served operator) is competent enough to hit anything at that range. Which is why we employed .300 Win Mag M24s & .50 BMG Barretts. And eventually .338 Lapuas. And mortars, rockets, belt feds, missiles, recoilless rounds, arty, and CAS. C'mon, be real. At 1000+, your average PKM ain't hitting anything either... and your average RPG round self-destructed (mid-flight) 'bout a hunnerd yards short. Those engagement distances are where the big dogs play in the tall grass... not squad riflemen.

While I don't doubt the man's experience with stoppages in combat, it didn't seem to happen with hundreds of weapons assigned across my units. Including those of the NSW SEAL Task Units OPCON to our mutual SOTFs.

OTOH, I instantly knew that reciprocating charging latch was trouble the first time I handled the gun. I was like "What idiot came up with this?". LOL.

YMMV.
12-20-2019 06:43 PM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronomy View Post
The SCAR-H (Mk 17) already has a continuous decade at war (Iraq, Afghanistan, Trans-Sahel Africa, Syria, etc.) under its belt. In the hands of US Army SOF. My battalions [3/10 & 2/10 SFG(A)] were among the very first Army test-bed units to formally run that gun (and the Mk16) through the ringer stateside, then take 'em downrange back in 2008/2009. Still deploying the 7.62 guns today.

All 7.62 NATO rifles are pigs when it comes to CQB. But the 7.62 SCAR actually handles that arena pretty damn well in comparison to other contenders.

Teething problems? Sure. We discovered a few. As with every other newly fielded rifle. But, in the main, the guns worked and delivered what they were designed for. Heavier infantry rifle punch (intermediate barrier) and 600ish meter reach in a balanced/compact package that doesn't simulate a boat anchor. Reliability in TICs was not an issue with us. But as folks discovered, 5.56 M4A1 is usually a more versatile tool for most SF missions. Especially with today's product improved issued loads.

The SCAR-H ain't perfect, but it's at/near the top of the list... if carrying 7.62 mags for non-sniper infantry rifle use is your thing.
A decade in and still getting FtF or FtE once per mag is a hell of a teething problem. Lots of double feeds.

AR platform solved its ammo problem a hell of a lot faster.

A good read and a nice vid included that covers the issue of the SEALs using the SCAR in Afghanistan.

https://sofrep.com/news/former-navy-...y-socom-rifle/
12-20-2019 05:58 PM
Astronomy The SCAR-H (Mk 17) already has a continuous decade at war (Iraq, Afghanistan, Trans-Sahel Africa, Syria, etc.) under its belt. In the hands of US Army SOF. My battalions [3/10 & 2/10 SFG(A)] were among the very first Army test-bed units to formally run that gun (and the Mk16) through the ringer stateside, then take 'em downrange back in 2008/2009. Still deploying the 7.62 guns today.

All 7.62 NATO rifles are pigs when it comes to CQB. But the 7.62 SCAR actually handles that arena pretty damn well in comparison to other contenders.

Teething problems? Sure. We discovered a few. As with every other newly fielded rifle. But, in the main, the guns worked and delivered what they were designed for. Heavier infantry rifle punch (intermediate barrier) and 600ish meter reach in a balanced/compact package that doesn't simulate a boat anchor. Reliability in TICs was not an issue with us. But as folks discovered, 5.56 M4A1 is usually a more versatile tool for most SF missions. Especially with today's product improved issued loads.

The SCAR-H ain't perfect, but it's at/near the top of the list... if carrying 7.62 mags for non-sniper infantry rifle use is your thing.
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