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Thread: Colorado magazine ban? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-21-2019 03:21 PM
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTail View Post
It comes down to burden of proof. Regardless of weather LE or a DA want to prosecute, it still comes down to proving the magazine was obtained post ban. Given that magazines aren't date stamped, unless the accused was born after the ban date, it's unenforceable.

Gun stores selling magazines are not breaking the law. Magazines are mechanical devices. Parts wear out. It's legal for them to sell complete sets of replacement parts. It's legal for people who own pre-ban mags to purchase parts for repair.

Banned magazines were stamped (roll marked) between 1994 and 2014. That was because the law was federal. As you point out individual states have the burden of proof and without the magazine being stamped there is no way to tell. Which is probably why they don't grandfather older magazines.
11-21-2019 03:08 PM
RedTail It comes down to burden of proof. Regardless of weather LE or a DA want to prosecute, it still comes down to proving the magazine was obtained post ban. Given that magazines aren't date stamped, unless the accused was born after the ban date, it's unenforceable.

Gun stores selling magazines are not breaking the law. Magazines are mechanical devices. Parts wear out. It's legal for them to sell complete sets of replacement parts. It's legal for people who own pre-ban mags to purchase parts for repair.
11-21-2019 02:54 PM
Peter Hang you with it?....maybe, maybe not, it depends. It's not etched in stone that they do. It is however in the hands of local or county law enforcement. Who may view enforcing a ban more of a nuisance than anything else, especially if they're hauling mom and pop, their neighbors and friends, down to the station like they were bad guys.


If you think about it, these magazine bans rely heavily on local law enforcement participation to work. If local law enforcement decides it's a waste of their time, then the nothing really happens. If you care to take a look at compliance numbers in states that have enacted such bans, in many instances the compliance numbers barely break double digits.
11-20-2019 07:21 PM
Gsp Mag ban is like the seatbelt law. Some states its a secondary offense. You will get a ticket for it only if you were pulled over for another offense.

They wont do anything with the high-cap mag unless you are caught with it. Then they will hang you with it.
11-20-2019 12:36 PM
Big_John Nearly all of the Rural Sheriff's through the CSOC have told those at the Denver Capital to "pound sand"! .....(along with some small town City Police Chief's) They said something to the tune of.... We will not uphold that law. We aren't going to look for mags over capacity that were purchased after the law, because it is ridiculous to begin with and it is unenforceable.

I have heard it estimated that upwards of 75% of the 30 round mags in Colorado are legal, as they were purchased prior to the law.

Here's a great article.... 11 have been sentenced since 2013.

https://www.kunc.org/post/six-years-...e-ban#stream/0


Here's the Top 10 in the state. I would avoid Jefferson, Denver, Arapahoe and Adams.... and I certainly wouldn't spend any of my money in those counties. I certainly wouldn't live there.


County Court: Cases Sentences
Jefferson County 20 2
Denver District 16 1
Arapahoe County 11 4
Adams County 10 2
El Paso County 9 0
Pueblo County 8 0
Alamosa County 4 0
Lake County 4 0
Weld County 4 0
Douglas County 2 0
11-20-2019 12:22 PM
deprogramming services
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
So, those intent on murdering as many people as possible purposely choose the least effective weapon, the firearm? Seriously? Is that really what you're saying? What a crock!
This is one of the dumbest comments this propagandist has made yet. Nobody here claimed that these killers "purposely choose the least effective weapon" as he claims. His assertion is a clumsy and obvious straw man, which is a type of lie, which makes him, once again, a liar. He has no response to the argument presented to him so he invents a fake argument and cuts it down instead. And he does it in a clumsy way that shows him clearly to be a liar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
Let me get out of this thread so I don't lose brain cells reading some of the posts above (and right below) me.
I hope it wasn't something we said... But as the saying goes, don't go away mad, just go away.

Actually I kind of appreciate it when an anti-gun bigot comes around and presents the lies of gun control here so they can be shown to be the lies they are. But I would prefer a better liar than this one. Go see if you can get your big brother to come in and help you out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
"Loosing" Really? You could not have proven my point any better if you tried, Mr. K - Thank you!
Spelling errors are common on the internet, because this is informal writing and most of what's posted is a first draft and nobody cares; even a grammar nazi like me doesn't care about it. Claiming that a spelling error "proves" whatever point you are making is laughable in its absurdity. If that's what you present as proof that you're right, you ain't got nuthin.
11-19-2019 09:19 PM
PaulKersey
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
Let me get out of this thread so I don't lose brain cells......
Well, arrogant new guy, having a brain is a prerequisite before you’d be in jeopardy of loosing any brain cells. You’ve proven yourself to be exempt from harm.
11-19-2019 08:58 PM
MikeMcD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
The fact that people aren't using bombs or other options more often is only because guns are more individualized and our culture is used to seeing them as a solution....
Take them away, and the nut jobs and criminals will find better tools in a heartbeat.
So, those intent on murdering as many people as possible purposely choose the least effective weapon, the firearm? Seriously? Is that really what you're saying? What a crock!

Let me get out of this thread so I don't lose brain cells reading some of the posts above (and right below) me.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulKersey View Post
Well, arrogant new guy, having a brain is a prerequisite before you’d be in jeopardy of loosing any brain cells. You’ve proven yourself to be in no danger.
"Loosing" Really? You could not have proven my point any better if you tried, Mr. K - Thank you!
11-19-2019 07:48 PM
deprogramming services
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-8.xls

You have an interesting and abrasive style. You're wrong, but it's interesting nonetheless. It's clear by the numbers shown that mass homicides by fire are the biggest concern.

Murder victims by weapon 2014-2018
364 homicides committed w/ fire
48,549 homicides committed w/ firearm
Now I see where your 40k number comes from (though your link to the FBI site didn't work): you are referring to since 2014; I saw it as in 2014.

It doesn't matter though, because as I said, more effective weapons not being used more often does not mean more effective weapons are not available. The lie your side bases its entire campaign on is that so-called assault weapons give a killer a capability he would not have if that kind of weapon was outlawed. My argument shows the lie in that assertion. And without that premise, there is no basis for the attempt to outlaw 20th Century arms (or limit magazine capacity).

Your entire line of argument on this thread is a red herring: irrelevant information brought in to confuse an issue. That makes you either a fool or a liar. Since you continue with that line even after the flaw in it was clearly explained, it is more likely that you are a liar. But probably a fool too, to think such a pitiful lie would fly here.

As I've pointed out before, it seems like we only get the bottom of the barrel liberal propagandists here. And they never get tired of proving that. It's kind of insulting though that they apparently think anyone here would buy such outlandish lies.
11-19-2019 06:25 PM
PaulKersey
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.
Does that mean that you arenít opposed to any ban relating to 2A rights?
11-19-2019 06:01 PM
ajole
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
You cherry picked one incident and made a very bad analogy.
Seriously?

Analogy: a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based.

The similarity is...people were murdered by one individual. The comparison is about the tool used, showing how the gun requires more planning, more investment, better ability, and STILL isn't as effective as a common uncontrolled item found on a corner every few blocks in any city.

Sounds like a GREAT analogy to me.

The fact that people aren't using bombs or other options more often is only because guns are more individualized and our culture is used to seeing them as a solution.

Take them away, and the nut jobs and criminals will find better tools in a heartbeat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
Sorry. Pointing to one anecdotal incident and then somehow claiming correlation isn't even close to realistic. I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.
Correlation? Where did you get that? Straw man. You really like to hear yourself talk, dontcha.
11-19-2019 03:04 PM
MikeMcD
Quote:
Originally Posted by deprogramming services View Post
I don't know where you got your 48k number then. A quick internet search shows that number to be blatantly false. This is a link to numbers coming from an extremist anti-gun site, and even they call you a liar:
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts...ce-statistics/
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ta-table-8.xls

You have an interesting and abrasive style. You're wrong, but it's interesting nonetheless. It's clear by the numbers shown that mass homicides by fire are the biggest concern.

Murder victims by weapon 2014-2018
364 homicides committed w/ fire
48,549 homicides committed w/ firearm
11-19-2019 02:04 PM
deprogramming services
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
You cherry picked one incident and made a very bad analogy. Sorry. Pointing to one anecdotal incident and then somehow claiming correlation isn't even close to realistic.
The incident I gave proves the point I made: if it can be done once it can be done again. You could add in people killed in accidental fires too, since if it can happen accidentally it can be done deliberately. But that isn't necessary, because it is proven fact that the biggest mass murders have all been committed with things other than guns, and nothing you claim changes that. Claiming it does is nothing but a lie.

The truck attack reinforces that truth. And then there is the Oklahoma City bombing. Nothing you have said changes the proven fact that a so-called assault weapon is not necessary to commit mass murder, and other weapons have indeed proven to be even more deadly in that kind of crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.
You are clearly here making a pitiful attempt to support the big lie at the heart of assault weapon propaganda. Your attempts to challenge the truth I stated here are not just wrong they are attempts to support a lie, making them a lie.

Once you show yourself to be a liar, there is no reason to believe anything you claim. If you come here to support the lie, you are here supporting the purpose that lie is being used for. You can claim anything you want, but you are clearly here as a liar supporting the lies of gun control. That is undeniable. You claiming otherwise is an example of a lie on top of a lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
I included homicides only, that's the 48k number, just homicides. I didn't include any suicides. You're mistaken.
I don't know where you got your 48k number then. A quick internet search shows that number to be blatantly false. This is a link to numbers coming from an extremist anti-gun site, and even they call you a liar:
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts...ce-statistics/
11-19-2019 01:45 PM
Cuteandfuzzybunnies I think the biggest problem with a magazine ban is that it’s silly. A magazine is a plastic or metal box with a spring and a plastic or metal plate for the follower. How are you going to ban something that simple ?

Magazines are not a serialized part. There is no real way to track them.

Magazine capacity is irrelevant to almost all crime. There is a possible link to mass shooters success rate and magazine capacity BUT it’s small. Most “ mass shooters “ shoot less people than one magazine hold even in CO where the limit is 15.

But even if you believe lower magazine size will slightly reduce the death count in mass shootings you have two problems.

One mass shootings are rare and the law enforcement cost does not match with the public benefit. In other words you could spend a lot less money per life saved in other Places.

Two mass shooters generally plan their crimes for long periods of time and make complicated preparations. So for the typical mass shooter , say a parkland type guy , building and testing 30 or 40 round magazines would not represent a significant impairment to his planning. In fact the little creep would probably enjoy it and maybe even write about it on 8 Chan or In His suicide note etc.
11-19-2019 01:27 PM
MikeMcD
Quote:
Originally Posted by deprogramming services View Post
None of that makes my comparison invalid. <snip> Nothing you claimed changes that fact.
You cherry picked one incident and made a very bad analogy. Sorry. Pointing to one anecdotal incident and then somehow claiming correlation isn't even close to realistic. I have no opinion on any bans, just your misguided analogy.

Quote:
<snip> Over half of all gun deaths are suicides....But you include all those crimes in your number. That is blatantly dishonest, and it is typical of gun control propaganda: it's all based in lies.
I included homicides only, that's the 48k number, just homicides. I didn't include any suicides. You're mistaken.
11-19-2019 01:07 PM
PaulKersey Iím 100% in favor of a magazine ban.....TIME MAGAZINE. Itís a liberal **** rag.
11-19-2019 12:40 PM
deprogramming services
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
I've never seen anyone try and compare the Happy Land murders to firearm homicides. That seemed like a stretch to me so i looked at the numbers.

Murders with fire in the United States since 2014 = 364 During that same time murders with firearms = 48k+

The social club also had one way in and out and violated virtually every single fire code for a public building. Comparing the two is a really bad analogy.
None of that makes my comparison invalid. The argument being made by anti-gun bigots is that so-called assault weapons (and so-called high-capacity magazines) give a killer a capability he would not have without them. More people being killed with guns doesn't change that. The fact is, arson has been proven to be a better weapon for mass murder than so-called assault weapons. Nothing you claimed changes that fact.

Over half of all gun deaths are suicides. People rarely use arson to kill themselves. Arson is not a good weapon for other types of crimes either. But you include all those crimes in your number. That is blatantly dishonest, and it is typical of gun control propaganda: it's all based in lies.

In order for a murder to take place the victim has to lack the ability to escape from the murderer. That's as true in mass shootings as it is when arson is used as a weapon; in fact in at least one mass murder (Virginia Tech if I remember right) the killer chained the doors shut. Fire codes can be defeated by an arsonist determined to get a big body count.

And just as fire codes can stop or alleviate death from an arsonist, there are ways to stop a mass shooter, that are not being used (or not being used enough). At the top of the list is doing away with the gun free zone insanity so there are more good guys available to stop the bad guy. But the same ones who want to disarm us of so-called assault weapons are doing everything they can to keep the good guys disarmed. That's as bad as outlawing fire codes.

The truth is, a so-called assault weapon with a so-called high capacity magazine is not the only way a person can commit mass murder, and in fact other methods have proven to be even more deadly. You claiming otherwise is easily shown to be a lie. My point is valid; you just don't want to admit it because you are here to promote the lie. Your attempt at a counter-argument is ludicrous.

I would add that a so-called assault weapon is a common mass murder weapon and arson is not, but that does not make arson an inferior weapon for that type of crime. No one knows why those killers do what they do and in the way they do it, but it looks likely that the liberal press heavily advertising mass murder is at least part of the reason, and it follows that the ones inspired by the advertising would use the type of weapon that is being advertised by the smiling liberals who talked them into doing it in the first place.

If the smiling liberals ever decide to advertise mass murder with arson like they advertise mass murder with a so-called assault weapon, we might all go up in flames.

Oh and here's another one for you to look into: the Nice France truck attack. That's another mass murder committed without a gun that had a much higher body count than those committed with a gun (the killer had a couple of guns but used the truck as his primary weapon because he knew it would give him a higher body count). So in comparing that to mass murders with guns, would you compare all death by car to all deaths by gun? That's the kind of idiotic comparison you tried to make in your failed attempt to counter my argument.
11-19-2019 12:38 PM
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcD View Post
I've never seen anyone try and compare the Happy Land murders to firearm homicides. That seemed like a stretch to me so i looked at the numbers.

Murders with fire in the United States since 2014 = 364 During that same time murders with firearms = 48k+

The social club also had one way in and out and violated virtually every single fire code for a public building. Comparing the two is a really bad analogy.
It's a matter of putting it in perspective, what is more dangerous a trip to the doctors office or firearm? In 2014 medical malpractice and medical error were the cause in around 400,000 deaths in the US. Third behind heart disease and cancer.

https://www.healthcareitnews.com/new...es-hit-records


Odds are your doctor will kill you long before a deranged gunman does.
Every time you drive a vehicle you roll the dice.
It's not an analogy when it compares identical results. In this instance death.


Limiting magazine capacity through legislation in a supposed effort to reduce wrongful deaths is a fools errand. Such laws accomplish nothing towards that end. The 1994 omnibus act was the litmus test for whether or not magazine bans actually worked and in 2014 it was studied and what they discovered was magazine bans didn't work. Yet there are politicians today still pushing that agenda. Why do you suppose that is?
11-19-2019 10:37 AM
MikeMcD
Quote:
Originally Posted by deprogramming services View Post
Compare that to just one of the biggest mass murders in America: A fake refugee brought in from Cuba years earlier got kicked out of a bar in NYC called the Happy Land Social Club. He got mad, went out and bought about a dollar’s worth of gasoline, came back, threw the fuel in the door and threw in a couple of matches. He killed 87 people.
I've never seen anyone try and compare the Happy Land murders to firearm homicides. That seemed like a stretch to me so i looked at the numbers.

Murders with fire in the United States since 2014 = 364 During that same time murders with firearms = 48k+

The social club also had one way in and out and violated virtually every single fire code for a public building. Comparing the two is a really bad analogy.
11-16-2019 12:41 PM
deprogramming services The big lie at the heart of the assault weapon campaign, including limits on magazine capacity, has been proven, and is undeniably a lie. Comparing two mass murders in recent history shows just what a big lie it is:

The biggest mass murder committed with so-called assault weapons (with bump stocks giving them burst fire capability) is the massacre in Las Vegas. The perpetrator of that crime was a self-made millionaire and he had been a pilot, among other things, meaning he was an intelligent and capable man. He spent months planning his killing spree and put a lot of money into it. He ended up killing 58 people. This is the biggest mass murder committed in America with a gun.

Compare that to just one of the biggest mass murders in America: A fake refugee brought in from Cuba years earlier got kicked out of a bar in NYC called the Happy Land Social Club. He got mad, went out and bought about a dollar’s worth of gasoline, came back, threw the fuel in the door and threw in a couple of matches. He killed 87 people.

This comparison shows very clearly the insanity of disarming or downgrading the American militia supposedly to save lives. The Las Vegas murder appears to be about the upper limit of what a person can accomplish with a so-called assault weapon, and that was done by a very capable person after much planning and preparation, and it resulted in a much smaller death toll than a fool was able to rack up using about a dollar's worth of gasoline and matches.

Get rid of all guns, and those wanting to commit mass murder will be no less able. This is proven fact. Those claiming otherwise are liars, and those basing laws on such blatant lies are traitors, trying to illegally downgrade the arms the American people have a right to have.


The Glock and the Bic have much in common: a steel firing mechanism attached to a plastic handle with as much firepower as the designer can fit into the handle. Both can be very effective weapons, but the Bic is capable of a much higher death toll when used for mass murder. This shows the insanity of trying to disarm the American people to supposedly protect us from mass murder.

And another thing to remember: sometimes the most bloodthirsty mass murderers of all become rulers of nations. Or slave masters. Or both. This is why the 2nd Amendment was written, and it's why we would be wise to hold onto it, and fight for it when traitors try to take that right away.

Gun control is not an end, it's a means to an end.
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