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Thread: Worst self defense advice you've ever heard? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-26-2020 12:16 PM
Peter Career wise...I've met my fair share of those who shouldn't have been where they were but they were. Seen some meteoric rises and catastrophic tumbles too. Up in fame down in flame...LOL
03-26-2020 12:10 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
kool stury bra
WHEN I was in drug land I was lead on a case involving a Mexican drug gang and some of the white middle class dealers they had in their distribution chain.
SO
we bag a white middle weight weed slinger as he lived in his middle class suburban home with his wife and 2 kids and his dog. He has a good job working for GM but he is supplementing his life style with pushing about 5 figures of weed a year.
Not exactly your hard core banger dude.
SO
I have a long heart to heart talk about life ending as he knows it and I give him a light at the end of the tunnel. All he has to do is flip on his supplier and life will probably go on as usual. If he agrees, he does not go to jail that day and he can figure out how he is going to make an introduction to his supplier so we can move a UC into the chain
BUT
he is scared. He says the Mexs he is tied into kill people.
I tell him that we will be around to keep him safe once it gets rolling until it is over with.
He keeps repeating he doesn't want to cross the Mexicans.
SO
I tell him about life in prison and advise him that I did not think he would flourish and do well in that environment. That, actually it would be fairly harsh in terms of his experience. Tell him there is a reason for all those dropped soap on the shower jokes. Give him some really good reasons to choose going with our side vs protecting his supplier.
SO
We get done with the SW and get all the related goodies, tell him to get in touch within the week to start things rolling or otherwise we will just assume he does not want to cooperate and someone will be by to arrest him and take him to jail in about 10 days or so.
THis is like a Monday or Tuesday...

SO...

I return to work on Monday after a weekend off and I find the guy's file on my desk with a note to see the boss. I go to his office and he asks me what did I say to the guy? I tell him the usual. Have it all on tape.
then
he tells me that on Saturday afternoon the guy put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. I asked if they were sure it was suicide. He said the local PD was outside the house with the wife who had called when they heard the shot. She said he was frantic about going to prison and he couldn't face it and he wouldn't turn against his supplier out of fear of what they would do to him and the family. She TRIED to blame ME for his suicide because I scared him so badly...

After that they didn't let me do one on one interrogations any more, .. as the boss put it... "just because.... ."
03-25-2020 04:33 PM
n1d
CAW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
........

Unlike the feds, it is not against the law to lie to the regular old police...
or
am I lying about it to trap you....
kool stury bra
03-25-2020 04:22 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
An interrogation is no longer good cop bad cop, not that it ever was...It's far more sophisticated than that.

Just because police are held to a higher standard of conduct doesn't mean they are above the law. They are not!

Law enforcement gets their fair share of bad apples too and because they are held to a higher standard, the damage these bad apples do to their reputation is amplified.
ANOTHER REAL problem is that in the name of AA and PC and "inclusion" and "diversity" and every other liberal buzzword you want to use the hiring standards that folks like me had to go through are now almost nothing.
When you want people of color and you do not get qualified applicants, you either raise the pay to attract folks who CAN pass the tests or you lower the standards and get people who NEVER would have been cops under the tougher standards.

When I applied to the city it took almost 8 months to hear I had passed the necessary background checks and poly to get in.

several years later the city was in such a rush to hire color they OK'd a guy before they even sent his prints to the FBI. Sent him to the academy, he gets out put him on the street, where rumor is he is doing minor store shakedowns.
They finally submit his prints and the FBI kicks back saying they belong to someone under a different name who was also convicted of rape in South Carolina. "But he is just the same as others hires..." The city invests a lot of $$$ into training someone to street level and the marginal folks who never would be cops otherwise lasted an average of 3 years before quitting or being forced out.

If you hire quality you get quality.
It is the same in business around the world.
IF you hire folks who should never be cops don't be surprised when they turn out not to be.
03-25-2020 11:40 AM
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
Police are above the law and can do as they please. We, as citizens, are beneath it. Now, do your duty as a good conservative and lick their boots.
An interrogation is no longer good cop bad cop, not that it ever was...It's far more sophisticated than that.

Just because police are held to a higher standard of conduct doesn't mean they are above the law. They are not!

Law enforcement gets their fair share of bad apples too and because they are held to a higher standard, the damage these bad apples do to their reputation is amplified.
03-25-2020 12:45 AM
1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBryan314 View Post
Police are above the law and can do as they please. We, as citizens, are beneath it. Now, do your duty as a good conservative and lick their boots.
Does your statement reflect an actual experience you have had, or is it just "they say" and "been told" and "I've heard" and "everybody knows" etc.?

Because one of my former fellow officers would dispute your statement. Arrested for domestic violence; prosecuted. Internal affairs investigation; fired.

And this happened in his jurisdiction. When the call came out and the PD supervisor realized that a co-worker was involved, he asked the Sheriff's Office to take it so there would be no appearance of favoritism. Total transparency.

If it's not that way where you live, sorry for you. But when making accusations of misconduct, I believe you should accuse the individual officer and not the group. Shoot a rifle and not a shotgun.
03-24-2020 01:41 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
But yet we cannot lie to you huh!
PEOPLE DID it continuously every day and just about everything we investigated.

They lied about things stolen and they lied about value and they lied about whether they know anything about the crime because they are padding it all for the insurance claim.

Every suspect you talk to lies even when telling you the truth wouldn't be that bad because what you are really investigating will probably change into a civil matter when the truth is known.

I have had victims lie right to my face up to the point I can prove they are lying, and yet they STILL keep lying because they are all in on it.

I was investigating a gang banger homicide. 2 rival gang cars pull up next to each other start exchanging insults. One guy is going to get out and show who is boss.. is half way out of the car when the bullet enters his forehead. He dead long before he hits the ground. The one side doesn't know who shot but they knew the driver of the car. Put out the information, He is known and it takes about 5 minutes to find the driver and take him to holding.

I get my crime scene cleaned up. Go in and get with my suspect. He is one of the younger ones.So, 19, about 5'7 and 145lbs. He doesn't lawyer up, he just says "I anit say'n nuthing."
I told him I respected him for that. I understand that he is a stand up guy sticking up for his brothers. I also compliment him for being a "man" and then I ask him if he knows the difference between being the shooter and being an accomplice before and after the fact? He looks all quizzical and says, "Man I don't know nuth'n about difference about that."
I said.
"You're right.. there is no difference." Then I explained to him that in the eyes of the law he is just as guilty as the guy who pulled the trigger.
I then told him I was going to give him some good advice. "Look, I know you aren't gonna talk and help yourself, and I respect that, so.. when you get into Jackson(the big Mich prison) you will go out into general population . Now sometime really soon after that there is gonna be some big, like 6'5" or so black guy who is gonna come up to you, put his arm around your shoulders and say "Yous is mine." You smile up at him and say thank you, because he is the one who is going to keep you from being passed around like a sex doll for the next 15-20 years. "
then
I asked him if he needed anything, something to drink and then I left the room while he sat there in deep thought.

I sat outside, kept watch and did my paperwork while I waited for the suits to arrive.
They got there and asked if he said anything. I told them not to me but I gave him something to think about and he might.

They take him into an interview room with the cameras setup etc. Give him his rights.

40 minutes later one of the D's comes out and says "We can't get him to shut up. He has cleared up 3 other homicides and a home invasion out in the county. What did you say to him and is it gonna come back and bite us in court?" I gave him a quick synopsis and tossed him the tape I ran during my time with him(I always had tape). He just laughed and went back in.

DID I lie to the guy? well probably not but I definitely painted a nasty picture.
because
someone like him would be a toy behind the big bars.

Unlike the feds, it is not against the law to lie to the regular old police...
or
am I lying about it to trap you....
03-23-2020 05:43 PM
JBryan314
Quote:
Originally Posted by n1d View Post
But yet we cannot lie to you huh!
Police are above the law and can do as they please. We, as citizens, are beneath it. Now, do your duty as a good conservative and lick their boots.
03-23-2020 05:39 PM
JBryan314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Andy1966 View Post
I'd have to say if .22 LR is all you can afford or handle, its still a mark above strong language and a stern look. Just saying
The line between what is adequate and what is not adequate is not drawn directly between .22LR and stern look. Neither are adequate pieces of self defense advice, even if one happens to be better than the other.
03-23-2020 05:36 PM
n1d
CAW!

But yet we cannot lie to you huh!


Quote:
Originally Posted by NW GUY View Post
THE PREVARICATION... the fib, the lie is all part of police technique that has been around since the dark ages.

Street cops do it all the time when checking suspects and suspicious conditions. I have no idea how many suspect cars I stopped for one investigation but told them the reason was for something else totally unrelated.
example-
car described as fleeing a B&E scene. I see the car, pull it over, occupants are nervous.. BUT, I tell them I stopped them because their car fit the description of a car involved in a shooting. They KNOW they didn't shoot anyone, so they settle in and mellow out and do not do something stupid.
While the officers at the scene are getting information I have the BGs calmly sitting there. Then witnesses show up with cops and say "Yep those are the guys." and they are bagged and tagged with no excitement.


It is nothing to do an interrogation and tell one person that the other person is confessing and placing all the blame for the crime on them to see the response. Sometimes it is like bluffing in poker. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The courts forever have said it is OK for cops to be creative. If it wasn't for things like that we probably wouldn't solve half of the crimes we investigate. Not every crime has a video camera running, or credible eyewitnesses or perfect forensic evidence.
Sometimes you have to get creative.

One of the cops I know was investigating an B&E of an old guys apartment. He had just received his shipment of frozen food from some charity group and he thought his neighbor was responsible. The cop is talking to the suspect and after a while asks if he could have a glass of water. Suspect is getting the water, and the cop asks "do you have any ice?" BG opens his freezer and all this distinctly packaged food is visible in the freezer in plain view.

the cop lie has been through the courts as an acceptable police practice for 100 years.
03-23-2020 05:18 PM
NW GUY
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterEnergy View Post
My wife and I are watching Blue Bloods. In almost every episode, the detective lies to try to get the accused to confess or give up some incriminating evidence. 100% agree. STFU when being "questioned." .
THE PREVARICATION... the fib, the lie is all part of police technique that has been around since the dark ages.

Street cops do it all the time when checking suspects and suspicious conditions. I have no idea how many suspect cars I stopped for one investigation but told them the reason was for something else totally unrelated.
example-
car described as fleeing a B&E scene. I see the car, pull it over, occupants are nervous.. BUT, I tell them I stopped them because their car fit the description of a car involved in a shooting. They KNOW they didn't shoot anyone, so they settle in and mellow out and do not do something stupid.
While the officers at the scene are getting information I have the BGs calmly sitting there. Then witnesses show up with cops and say "Yep those are the guys." and they are bagged and tagged with no excitement.


It is nothing to do an interrogation and tell one person that the other person is confessing and placing all the blame for the crime on them to see the response. Sometimes it is like bluffing in poker. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. The courts forever have said it is OK for cops to be creative. If it wasn't for things like that we probably wouldn't solve half of the crimes we investigate. Not every crime has a video camera running, or credible eyewitnesses or perfect forensic evidence.
Sometimes you have to get creative.

One of the cops I know was investigating an B&E of an old guys apartment. He had just received his shipment of frozen food from some charity group and he thought his neighbor was responsible. The cop is talking to the suspect and after a while asks if he could have a glass of water. Suspect is getting the water, and the cop asks "do you have any ice?" BG opens his freezer and all this distinctly packaged food is visible in the freezer in plain view.

the cop lie has been through the courts as an acceptable police practice for 100 years.
03-23-2020 03:20 PM
Zuriss Head shots are fine.

















They ruin less of the meat
03-23-2020 01:12 PM
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
If youre shooting them at all, you must have a valid reason, eh?

Then again, if you shoot them in the leg you are told you didnt have a good enough reason.

Now, it appears shooting them in the head is too much of one?
Semantics...lol

Reason this, did they shoot them in the leg because they didn't want to risk killing the person, they just wanted to wing them a little to get their point across. Which is obviously not a good idea...

OR were they in a fight for their life and the only visible CM of the attacker was a leg, a foot a hand a head etc. There is a difference between purposefully doing it and not having a choice in the matter.

All I said was you'll get a chance to explain why you did what you did (head shot)...Better hope it's a good explanation too, cause if it isn't the prosecutor will have your lunch.
03-23-2020 12:30 PM
AK103K If youre shooting them at all, you must have a valid reason, eh?

Then again, if you shoot them in the leg you are told you didnt have a good enough reason.

Now, it appears shooting them in the head is too much of one?
03-23-2020 12:23 PM
Peter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
87, 88.....whatever works.

BTW, to the headshot vs CM people. If all you can see is the head, then the nose is pretty much center mass. Quit being hung up over semantics, and shoot it.

Maybe we should come up with a reverse Mozambique drill as the perfect self defense technique. One to the head, and two to the body as fast as possible, then asses over the sights if he’s still standing/moving, using that millisecond or so to aim at the head again, and repeat as required to eliminate the threat.

And yes...that’s a joke.
Unless it’s cool, then I was serious.
Yep that's the way CM works. The center of what you see...

After it's done and IF one survives the encounter they'll get a chance to explain their actions. Were the actions taken in the heat of the moment the actions of a reasonable man? done in self defense or were they that of an executioner?

Anecdotal stories are great fodder for discussion, not so much when it comes to explaining your actions to people who have the power to lock you up for the rest of your life. And yes you shoot someone in the head you will get the chance to explain why you thought it was reasonable. Better hope your explanation is a good one.

FWIW The last two paragraphs were not directed at you
03-23-2020 01:51 AM
dmas
Don't talk to cops by law professor and homicide cop lectures.
03-23-2020 12:50 AM
MA Survivalist
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajole View Post
You donít need a gun, karate will take care of anything, the Tueller drill proves it.
Its doubtful that most liberals will ever take up martial arts, at least the ones who are against guns.
03-23-2020 12:07 AM
Chronic the Hashhog
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1611 View Post
And not only did he make a headshot under pressure he shot from a Weaver Stance [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG] : https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/texas-...leaves-2-dead/

Oh, say it ain't so, Modern Isocoles fans, say it ain't so! [IMG


class=inlineimg]https://www.survivalistboards.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

Yea im a mod weaver guy
03-23-2020 12:03 AM
1611 And not only did he make a headshot under pressure, he shot from a......wait for it.......a Weaver Stance : https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/texas-...leaves-2-dead/

According to some IDPA and IPSC experts, he's not supposed to be able to do that! Apparently, he didn't get the memo.
03-22-2020 11:10 PM
1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarge912 View Post
Worked out for the last church shooting in Texas.
Yep, a headshot made under pressure by a 71-year-old former reserve deputy.
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