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Thread: Best Pre-Computer Bug-Out Vehicle? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-26-2019 11:02 PM
daddyusmaximus Hoping it will never happen.

Hoping that if it ever does, all the EMP crap is hype.

Hoping that if it isn't my old CJ7 will still be running. (If I get done building it before it happens.)
05-26-2019 10:41 PM
xstuntman I daily drive an '85 Suburban 4wd and love it. The old carbed 350s don't make tons of power or torque but I can work on it myself. 55k on the GM replacement 350/700r combo and no OBD2 scanner needed!

I will not touch the new trucks since they have a purposely limited life nowadays. As a Chevy guy it kills me to see them have the same reliability as Chrysler. Then there's the "let's cozy up to china" thing.

Ford's not much better - stinks slightly less is probably accurate.

If I we're gonna buy new it'd be a Toyota but I'm happy with the yacht I got.
And i've carried 12ft 2x4s inside it with the back window rolled up too.
05-22-2019 12:58 PM
lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
I love a good debate....��

Let me explain myself a little better
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle

Old vehicles...high maintenance. When was the last time you had to adjust your ignition timing on your 10 year old vehicle....did you have to adjust the carb? How about adjust wheel bearings....change that cap and rotor lately? How are those drum brake shoes wearing? Good stopping ability? Got your float in your carb stuck recently? ...etc....etc...
Had to adjust your belts lately? I can go on....and on....

Next.... I think I mentioned. Our modern day tech doesnít know how to work on those old vehicles....some can....but many can not. I see it all the time in my field. If a laptop canít connect and tell them the problem....they are stuck. I know some millennial era techs who can not do simple repairs on old vehicles.
Us old school guys....we arenít getting any younger.

Fuel economy.... your carburetor in your Chevy truck is gonna drink more gasoline than my injectors....

Not everyone has a 12 valve Cummins Diesel. ...
I would say it depends on what that 40 year old vehicle is. If it is something uncommon like a yugo, you will have a hard time finding parts. If it is a F150 with a 300-6 or a Chevy 1500 with a 350 in it parts are everywhere. Also A LOT can be not working on a vehicle and it will still run.

You mention rear break drums. If they are a problem, remove the shoes, pinch off the lines and even if the front pads are warn down to the steal the vehicle will still run, go and mostly stop.
05-22-2019 12:51 PM
lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
This scenario is a far fetched favorite of survivalists. For such a vehicle to be useful here's what has to happen.

1. You'd have to maintain it and probably keep extra parts around. Old vehicles are high maintenance and parts can be scarce. Lots of work. Low fuel economy. Replacing work parts, lights, belts, oil, tires, etc. on a regular basis. Possible for sure, but a lot of work.

2. An EMP worthy event would need to strike your location. Given this has never really happened anywhere, or rarely at best, odds are about 0%.

3. If an EMP event struck you your old car would have to survive. It still has electical parts.

4. Then there's the "bug out" notion. Why and where? Most places would find the roads impassible. In my area, probably most of the day the roads would be clogged with dead vehicles and if there was any advance notice they would surely be clogged.

In all, it's a waste of brain power and worry for a non-event.
When it comes to spare parts, instead of getting spare parts get 2-3-4 or 5 of the same basic vehicle. That way you have several spares of every single part on that vehicle. The last truck I owned was deemed not good enough to be a farm truck and was parked and used for parts about 5 years before I got it. When I got it I spent a few hours re wiring it and putting parts from one of my other broken down trucks into it. I drove that piece of junk for 2 years as my primary vehicle and had no issue with jumping into it an taking a 800 mile trip in it. Many, many things in it didn't work but it started almost every time and I think the only parts I ever bought for it were second hand tires, otherwise everything else I needed I took from my previous truck.
05-22-2019 12:40 PM
lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerindel View Post
This is where it gets pretty hard though doesn't it?

Say you believe an EMP will kill 'the electronics'

Well....since there is no data to back that up how do you determine what 'the electronics' are?

I mean, its not like you have rocks, and then you have electronics and nothing in between.

Virtually everything on a car conducts electricity to one degree or another, virtually everything can be damaged by it....so.....what gets fried? and how do you come to this conclusion?

You decide that all IC's get fried...but not relays.....but how do you decide this? What data do you use?

Is a relay more vulnerable than a starter because the wires are thinner? Or is the starter more vulnerable because it has longer wires? How about the diodes in you alternator? Go? No Go?

How about the coil on a 67 bug? is that this nebulous 'electronics' or not? The distributor? What about the headlights?

Wiring harness?

Solenoids in your tranny?

That is why many people suggest old vehicles and having spares of EVERYTHING electronic needed to run it. Points/magneto, coil, condenser, resister, starter, generator/alternator and charge controller, and battery. If you have all of them you can get the engine to run, even if you have to completely rewire it and start it by connecting a wire directly to the starter.

All the other electronics on a vehicle are not necessary to run it. Headlights would be nice but not needed.

If you are a good fabricator and know what you are doing you could replace all the electronics with a hand crank to start it and hot tube or slide valve ignition instead of spark ignition. Of course it would probably be much easier to make those changes now than to try and do it after.
05-21-2019 04:30 PM
Goodwrench708
Quote:
Originally Posted by gungatim View Post
agree with you on a lot of points, but to be a devils advocate, you're right probably can't find parts for an older vehicle locally as easily as a new one. OTOH, I can grease and repack an old wheel bearing, instead of having to find the exact hub to replace it with.

I can file points, clean and gap plugs, clean a dist cap, fab new plug wires, clean a carb, solder a brass float, make a serviceable v-belt from hose, etc.

newer vehicles most of that is impossible. OTOH (again), stale gas doesn't run for crap in a carb, but I've never had a modern fuel injected vehicle not run on bad gas.

so it's a trade off...best bet is to learn how to fix and maintain stuff so you can make anything work in a pinch.

personally i'm lucky that I know old stuff and the new computer stuff and have all the tools to diagnose and fix either.

Knowledge and tools are my biggest prep.
Well said....couldnít agree more
I started a thread awhile back about that subject
How people should get the tools and knowledge about working on vehicles
05-21-2019 06:59 AM
gungatim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
I love a good debate....��

Let me explain myself a little better
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle

Old vehicles...high maintenance. When was the last time you had to adjust your ignition timing on your 10 year old vehicle....did you have to adjust the carb? How about adjust wheel bearings....change that cap and rotor lately? How are those drum brake shoes wearing? Good stopping ability? Got your float in your carb stuck recently? ...etc....etc...
Had to adjust your belts lately? I can go on....and on....

Next.... I think I mentioned. Our modern day tech doesnít know how to work on those old vehicles....some can....but many can not. I see it all the time in my field. If a laptop canít connect and tell them the problem....they are stuck. I know some millennial era techs who can not do simple repairs on old vehicles.
Us old school guys....we arenít getting any younger.

Fuel economy.... your carburetor in your Chevy truck is gonna drink more gasoline than my injectors....

Not everyone has a 12 valve Cummins Diesel. ...
agree with you on a lot of points, but to be a devils advocate, you're right probably can't find parts for an older vehicle locally as easily as a new one. OTOH, I can grease and repack an old wheel bearing, instead of having to find the exact hub to replace it with.

I can file points, clean and gap plugs, clean a dist cap, fab new plug wires, clean a carb, solder a brass float, make a serviceable v-belt from hose, etc.

newer vehicles most of that is impossible. OTOH (again), stale gas doesn't run for crap in a carb, but I've never had a modern fuel injected vehicle not run on bad gas.

so it's a trade off...best bet is to learn how to fix and maintain stuff so you can make anything work in a pinch.

personally i'm lucky that I know old stuff and the new computer stuff and have all the tools to diagnose and fix either.

Knowledge and tools are my biggest prep.
05-21-2019 02:49 AM
Aerindel
Quote:
I also dare anyone to walk into a parts store and find what they need simply by looking through the stock shelves.
I normally order everything because its cheaper and I hate people.

But while replacing the struts on my wife subaru tonight I found out the lower ball joint is shot....and she has to have it to drive to work in a couple days....so I'm going to the parts store tomorrow.

Wish me luck.

(Honestly, I never have an problem getting the parts I need, but I also have vehicles that where among the most common, at least for this area, of their time periods. Any parts store that doesn't have subaru ball joints in MT doesn't deserve to be open)
05-21-2019 02:39 AM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
I love a good debate....��

Let me explain myself a little better
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle

Old vehicles...high maintenance. When was the last time you had to adjust your ignition timing on your 10 year old vehicle....did you have to adjust the carb? How about adjust wheel bearings....change that cap and rotor lately? How are those drum brake shoes wearing? Good stopping ability? Got your float in your carb stuck recently? ...etc....etc...
Had to adjust your belts lately? I can go on....and on....

Next.... I think I mentioned. Our modern day tech doesn’t know how to work on those old vehicles....some can....but many can not. I see it all the time in my field. If a laptop can’t connect and tell them the problem....they are stuck. I know some millennial era techs who can not do simple repairs on old vehicles.
Us old school guys....we aren’t getting any younger.

Fuel economy.... your carburetor in your Chevy truck is gonna drink more gasoline than my injectors....

Not everyone has a 12 valve Cummins Diesel. ...
In today's auto parts stores you will have a hard time finding ANY parts beyond the most basic. Pretty much everything, "will be here on tomorrow's truck" now.

I also dare anyone to walk into a parts store and find what they need simply by looking through the stock on the shelves in the back.
*on edit* - To clarify I mean as if during shtf when you broke in and there are no employees or computers working so you go behind the counter to search for part on the shelves.

To top it off unlike in the past where there was a rack of parts reference books on the counter it is all done by computer now (not working when power is off due to shtf) so you better have every part number your vehicle could ever need memorized and know what they all look like. Don't forget that not all stores use the same numbering system either.
05-20-2019 11:58 PM
Aerindel
Quote:
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle
True, but irrelevant.

Unless your vehicle is in terrible shape now you will never drive enough after the apocalypse to wear out a car of any vintage.

Actually I should say sort of true because if your vintage vehicle is one that was extremely popular and still has an avid following, like a beetle, you actually can walk in to parts stores and get parts for it without a problem. I've picked up starters, valve cover gaskets, ball joints, etc all for my 67 beetle based sand rail from the local Napa.

But again, irrelevant. Nobody is storing enough gasoline to wear out anything.
05-20-2019 11:26 PM
Goodwrench708 I love a good debate....��

Let me explain myself a little better
Parts for old vehicles harder to find ... during a apocalypse.. if you want to call it that...lol. When you have to break into a parts store to get a part.... what will be easier to obtain...a part for a 40 year old vehicle....or a 10 year old vehicle...? My money rides on the 10 year old vehicle

Old vehicles...high maintenance. When was the last time you had to adjust your ignition timing on your 10 year old vehicle....did you have to adjust the carb? How about adjust wheel bearings....change that cap and rotor lately? How are those drum brake shoes wearing? Good stopping ability? Got your float in your carb stuck recently? ...etc....etc...
Had to adjust your belts lately? I can go on....and on....

Next.... I think I mentioned. Our modern day tech doesn’t know how to work on those old vehicles....some can....but many can not. I see it all the time in my field. If a laptop can’t connect and tell them the problem....they are stuck. I know some millennial era techs who can not do simple repairs on old vehicles.
Us old school guys....we aren’t getting any younger.

Fuel economy.... your carburetor in your Chevy truck is gonna drink more gasoline than my injectors....

Not everyone has a 12 valve Cummins Diesel. ...
05-20-2019 11:20 PM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcalibres View Post
It is clear enough that you know more about vehicle mechanical/electronics than most of us here.

What is unclear is how much you know (or indeed could know) about what an EMP would do to them.

On the subject of fuel, if fuel might become unavailable after an EMP brings the grid down, then that would make having a stockpile of long shelf life fuel a good idea.....

That sounds like the case for having a diesel.......that you have said before, you don't like or recommend.
He has also previously stated quite unequivocally that he is NOT here as a prepper and doesn't buy into the mindset of being prepared for as many eventualities as possible.

His answers are VERY normalcy biased.
05-20-2019 10:05 PM
SBK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metcalf View Post
It is a bit more work to take a vehicle back to that that quality. They aren't giving away new vehicles at this point either. I can rebuild a heck of a nice vehicle for the 50K a new truck costs.
Yup. I've said it for a long time. A person could literally take a 2nd gen Dodge and replace every moving part in the truck, including engine, transmission, transfer case, axles and a whole bunch of other things if needed, all brand new, and still spend less than a new truck costs. And it would be cheaper and easier to work on when it came time to do maintenance or repairs. Many people don't have that option though, since they're making ridiculous payments on that $50-$75,000 pickup truck (but that's another subject )
05-20-2019 09:56 PM
SBK I'll preface this post by saying that my experience is almost exclusively with diesels, specifically Cummins diesels. I have somewhat limited experience with automotive gas engines, either carburated or otherwise so this may not apply to them as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Parts for old vehicles may not be easy to find.
Depends on the vehicle. Parts for old Ford or Chevy trucks or Jeeps are very easy to find. I'm a 12 valve Cummins guy. Got one in a Dodge and one in a Ford. One is over 20 years old, the other is 30. Parts are as easy to come by as they are for a truck that's 2 years old and wear parts like brakes, steering components, u joints, etc.etc. often cost easily half as much or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
yes they are high maintenance.
Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe it's just because of the specific type of vehicles I have experience with. A 1997 Dodge Cummins with 200,000 miles on it isn't any higher maintenance than a 2015 Dodge Cummins with 200,000 miles on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
Fuel consumption is bad.
Again, maybe it's just the specific type of vehicle engine combo. The Dodge Cummins trucks have basically maintained nearly the same mileage since 1989. From what I have observed, many gas vehicles are the same. I had a Toyota Tercel from the early 90's. Got around 40-45 mpg. Always found it a little amusing that the new hybrid cars get right around the same mileage as my ancient, beat to hell Tercel did.
05-20-2019 08:33 PM
Metcalf
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
This scenario is a far fetched favorite of survivalists. For such a vehicle to be useful here's what has to happen.

1. You'd have to maintain it and probably keep extra parts around. Old vehicles are high maintenance and parts can be scarce. Lots of work. Low fuel economy. Replacing work parts, lights, belts, oil, tires, etc. on a regular basis. Possible for sure, but a lot of work.

2. An EMP worthy event would need to strike your location. Given this has never really happened anywhere, or rarely at best, odds are about 0%.

3. If an EMP event struck you your old car would have to survive. It still has electical parts.

4. Then there's the "bug out" notion. Why and where? Most places would find the roads impassible. In my area, probably most of the day the roads would be clogged with dead vehicles and if there was any advance notice they would surely be clogged.

In all, it's a waste of brain power and worry for a non-event.
1. It isn't THAT bad. If you actually take the time to rebuild the vehicle instead of just continuing to drive it being 40 years old already, they actually hold up pretty well.

It is a bit more work to take a vehicle back to that that quality. They aren't giving away new vehicles at this point either. I can rebuild a heck of a nice vehicle for the 50K a new truck costs.

Low fuel economy isn't for certain. Average fuel economy hasn't really gone up THAT much on new vehicles. This is mainly because of all the extra weight of the modern amenities most can't live without and all the .gov mandatory safety gear. Knowing what is going on with the engine is the biggest key. These days you can buy a wideband O2 meter so you can actually see what the engine is doing. Add in a vacuum gauge and you can tune things. There is a lot of technology/improvements that can be retrofitted to older engines to make them more efficient that don't require electronics.....piston designs, combustion chamber designs, head materials, etc.

The parts you mention replacing don't have to be replaced any more frequently on an old vehicle than a new one once they are both new. Once bonus to a lot of older vehicles is that many wear parts, such as wheel bearings, are actually serviceable rather than unitized replacements.

2. We could say that about generally every event speculated about on this forum. Some people have different priorities.

3. Any parts on an old vehicle that could be knocked out are going to be cheaper and easier to replace than a new vehicle. An entire replacement HEI distributor ignition system is about $100-150. Simple, easy to replace.

4. I agree 'bug-out' is used too much. That isn't the only purpose of a simple durable vehicle. It can be used to get home ahead of other people. It can be used to do actual 'work' which could have a lot of value in the after. It also doesn't have to be a automobile....it could be a tractor.

.....everything on this forum is a non-event depending on your point of view.
05-20-2019 07:56 PM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
I can't speak for leadcounsel.
But alot about his statement is true. Parts for old vehicles may not be easy to find... and yes they are high maintenance.
Fuel consumption is bad.
And as i said in an earlier post... alot of people dont know how to fix them. I see that all the time in my field. Us old time mechanics are dying off. Lol
None of which has to do with the specific part of his comment I highlighted and asked him about.
05-20-2019 05:21 PM
Aerindel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwrench708 View Post
I can't speak for leadcounsel.
But alot about his statement is true. Parts for old vehicles may not be easy to find... and yes they are high maintenance.
Fuel consumption is bad.
And as i said in an earlier post... alot of people dont know how to fix them. I see that all the time in my field. Us old time mechanics are dying off. Lol
True.....but also irrelevant when it comes to bug out vehicles.
05-20-2019 05:04 PM
Goodwrench708 I can't speak for leadcounsel.
But alot about his statement is true. Parts for old vehicles may not be easy to find... and yes they are high maintenance.
Fuel consumption is bad.
And as i said in an earlier post... alot of people dont know how to fix them. I see that all the time in my field. Us old time mechanics are dying off. Lol
05-20-2019 04:54 PM
SBK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Ignoring all the rest of your post please eplain how this is any different then what a newer vehicle would require under the same circumstances?
I'll be interested to see what he comes up with. In my experience there isn't any difference other than the newer vehicle repair parts being more expensive, generally speaking.
05-20-2019 04:49 PM
Steve_In_29
Quote:
Originally Posted by leadcounsel View Post
This scenario is a far fetched favorite of survivalists. For such a vehicle to be useful here's what has to happen.

1. You'd have to maintain it and probably keep extra parts around. Old vehicles are high maintenance and parts can be scarce. Lots of work. Low fuel economy. Replacing work parts, lights, belts, oil, tires, etc. on a regular basis. Possible for sure, but a lot of work.

2. An EMP worthy event would need to strike your location. Given this has never really happened anywhere, or rarely at best, odds are about 0%.

3. If an EMP event struck you your old car would have to survive. It still has electical parts.

4. Then there's the "bug out" notion. Why and where? Most places would find the roads impassible. In my area, probably most of the day the roads would be clogged with dead vehicles and if there was any advance notice they would surely be clogged.

In all, it's a waste of brain power and worry for a non-event.
Ignoring all the rest of your post please eplain how this is any different then what a newer vehicle would require under the same circumstances?
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