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Thread: Marines are Developing New Rifle Qualification Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-24-2020 10:47 PM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by clingmansdome View Post
All that repetition isn't just for accuracy. It's supposed to help get rid of the shake factor that comes when someone's shootin' back at you.
Yes, that's the underlayment of most of the training in all of the services.

Develop muscle memory so when the brain fog happens the hands keep functioning.

Don't discount the repetition for accuracy either. Dead bodies tend to discourage the opposition.
03-24-2020 10:39 PM
clingmansdome All that repetition isn't just for accuracy. It's supposed to help get rid of the shake factor that comes when someone's shootin' back at you.
03-24-2020 10:23 PM
AZ_HighCountry
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamZeke View Post
Battle rifle is 7.62, not 5.56. M16's as the military uses them are "assault rifles", though not AR15s.

As for true battle rifle, the M1A1 certainly qualifies and many would call the Garand one as well.
I get your point and don't disagree. I am looking at it in terms of simplicity. The M16A1 was pretty much set it and forget it. The M1 / M14 / M1A / M16A2 to me are target rifles.

The FAL is a battle rifle under the terms as I use it besides being considered a "battle rifle".

It was once stated the Germans had the best hunting rifles, the British the best battle rifles, and the Americans the best target rifles.
03-24-2020 10:16 PM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_HighCountry View Post
Considering the M16A1 rifle was the only true modern US battle rifle ever issued in the 20th Century, it did make one learn how to adjust sights. Windage was rather simply. Get 200 yard zero, typically 2 full revolutions minimum of the front sight to hit at 500. Thank God we went back to a target rifle and heavier ammo.
Battle rifle is 7.62, not 5.56. M16's as the military uses them are "assault rifles", though not AR15s.

As for true battle rifle, the M1A1 certainly qualifies and many would call the Garand one as well.
03-24-2020 09:56 PM
AZ_HighCountry
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHP1127 View Post
I was in the Marines during all of the 80's and it was all iron sights. I grew up shooting so USMC marksmanship was a piece of cake. You learned how to adjust your rear and front sights and what the proper sight picture should be at 200, 300 and 500 meters. This training allows good basic marksmanship fundamentals with all rifles.
My AR's versions have iron sights, an ACOG and scopes.
Bottomline and most importantly, an ACOG makes a basic Marine with avg skills a better marksman.
Considering the M16A1 rifle was the only true modern US battle rifle ever issued in the 20th Century, it did make one learn how to adjust sights. Windage was rather simply. Get 200 yard zero, typically 2 full revolutions minimum of the front sight to hit at 500. Thank God we went back to a target rifle and heavier ammo.
03-24-2020 09:51 PM
AZ_HighCountry
Quote:
Originally Posted by horatiodreamt View Post
I read that MARSOC decided against using the M27 because its length isn't suitable for their mission.
Link to that?
03-24-2020 06:49 PM
rc508abn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin X View Post
bout time, but they used a bearded white guy in black as a target. whats up with that?.what demographic are they preparing them to get ready to do?
LMAO... Looks like James Yeager
03-24-2020 05:49 PM
NHP1127 I was in the Marines during all of the 80's and it was all iron sights. I grew up shooting so USMC marksmanship was a piece of cake. You learned how to adjust your rear and front sights and what the proper sight picture should be at 200, 300 and 500 meters. This training allows good basic marksmanship fundamentals with all rifles.
My AR's versions have iron sights, an ACOG and scopes.
Bottomline and most importantly, an ACOG makes a basic Marine with avg skills a better marksman.
03-22-2020 04:27 AM
horatiodreamt I read that MARSOC decided against using the M27 because its length isn't suitable for their mission.
12-23-2019 06:15 PM
SCPigpen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed70 View Post
It's about time. Almost all of the old qual was irrelevant to anything but "but we shot at 500 to qual! With irons!"
I always thought this to be the case as well.
12-21-2019 01:13 AM
IamZeke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad, 2nd View Post
**** that.

The ENTIRE CORPS needs to shoot more!

Add to, not take away.
My way would do that. The pogues would still shoot the same at least and the warfighters would be shooting even more.

Maybe add one day on the pogue annual training qual week and have them run and gun. Qual on Friday, run and gun on Saturday, have the cattle cars include a keg of beer for the long drive back to their home units from the range base. No pogue would try to skate on range week in that setup.

You know that an extra qual badge would help grunt promotion points so they start to close in on those promotion rates for WM clerks who hit E5 in 3 years. Poor Lance Coolie grunts sometimes have to reup just for corporal.
12-21-2019 12:58 AM
Nomad, 2nd **** that.

The ENTIRE CORPS needs to shoot more!

Add to, not take away.
12-21-2019 12:53 AM
IamZeke Don't like the service wide change idea. Why? Because it is service wide.

Clerks and bakers don't need to run and gun. When they get called out to the walls you just want them to hit targets.

Gravel belly training does that best.

This new regime should be a 03XX course with a separate qual.

There is room on the uniform for more than 2 qual badges. I saw a Gunny from the National Match team wear four badges for an IG inspection in his Alphas. Completely legit for the dress code.

Damn flyboys, carpenters, and WMs don't need to be run and gun types. It will just burn up time and they will lose distance training skills.


Now will one of you youngsters help me up? I think I've gotten stuck to the gravel.
12-20-2019 10:21 AM
Dutchmano1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goblin X View Post
bout time, but they used a bearded white guy in black as a target. whats up with that?.what demographic are they preparing them to get ready to do?
Red state guys? The bane of “the elite” of this nation.
12-20-2019 07:44 AM
DeBrewhaha I think the Corps should definitely still qualify with iron sights in addition to the ACOGs. I’m not sure my eyes would still allow me to hit 500 yards anymore with irons. I can wear glasses to either see my front sight tip clearly or see the target. At least I know sight alignment and sight picture.
12-18-2019 05:37 PM
Exarmyguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelfilter View Post
...ACOG...
Yeah I realize that after you responded. Same as the Elcans.
12-18-2019 06:35 AM
Camelfilter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exarmyguy View Post
Well if a EMP takes out everyones electronic sights I hope they still know how to use irons.
...ACOG...
12-17-2019 11:29 PM
Exarmyguy Well if a EMP takes out everyones electronic sights I hope they still know how to use irons.
12-17-2019 10:41 PM
Nomad, 2nd If added to range accuracy I don't see a problem.

Except this:
Quote:

Marines will use their individual issue weapon which will be an M4/M4A1, M16A4, or M27. All rifles will shoot the same course.

They tried that back in 2001.... Gunnies who hadn't ever not shot expert were getting pizza boxes due to M4 vs M16 @500.
Went away quick.

It would be a mistake to train for the next war due to the last, but there's a long history of us doing that.
12-17-2019 10:25 PM
ajole
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim from 28DaysLater View Post
Yeah, the PC alternative to a h*ji rifle range target or a Ch**ese target looks like he's based on US mil Iraq / Afghanistan combat veterans

???

And he also doesn't have his rifle raised?
It’s war, not a western movie, there’s no requirement to let them shoot first.
Unless the politicians set the ROE...

Just want to respectfully point out, from the article... “This shift aligns with the earlier update the U.S. Army made to their marksmanship and rifle qualification programs.”

Dad gum it...the jarheads are getting Army leftovers again.
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