Face to Face sale question

[richis7]

I have a question about doing face to face sales. If you are selling to someone what responsibility do you have to make sure they are legal to own the gun? Since you obviously cant run a background check are you legally responsible if the person you sell something to uses it in a crime? For what its worth the gun I am trying to sell to someone is a rifle. Its not actually my gun, I am just acting as middle man.

I asked the person for a pistol permit or to see a concealed carry permit but he said he couldnt do that at this time. It's a person who had an ad on craigslist so I dont know him at all. He claims to have a receipt from a pawn shop where he has bought guns and he says his girlfriend bought a .270 last week. Should I tell him I will sell it to her if I see the receipt and then what she does with it isn't my problem?

I don't want to do anything illegal and more than that I dont want to put a gun in the hands of someone that shouldnt have it.

What should I do? Its not imperative that this rifle gets sold, frankly I am just trying to make a quick $80 for not doing anything, but I dont want to do anything illegal in the process.

Any advice? Right now I'm leaning towards telling the guy I'm not comfortable selling it to him, but thought I would see what you guys think.

[RUReDYeT?]

If your gut says don't sell to him don't. However just because he doesn't go to a regular gun store to buy rifles doesn't make him a criminal either. In michigan you can still do a face to face sale with somebody without any checking on them at all. You have to go with your gutt on this one.

[Westbound]

If it does not violate you state law to sell a firearm face to face, then it shouldn't be a problem. It is illegal to knowingly transfer a firearm to a felon, mental case, etc.
If you decide to to the sale, I would have the owner of the gun create a bill of sale with the buyer's name on it, and get it signed by the buyer. Overall, I would go with your gut feeling though. We have intuition for a reason!!

[SgtBooker44]

When in doubt, step out. If you are the middleman, just let the two parties handle the transaction themselves. Wash your hands of the entire thing.

[GoodOlFroathyOne]

Ask them if they are legally allowed to own or purchase a firearm, ask to see their license and jot down their info and you should be fine. Check your local laws as municipalities may differ as to the responsibility of the seller etc.

If you are selling a rifle why are you asking to see a pistol permit?

But it sounds shady and I wouldn't be comfortable selling.

Personally I wait for gunshows and unload any surplus or unwanted rifles and have the person pay for an FFL transfer at the show Always good to get your name removed from the SN

[Texas]

Depending on how much cash is involved, plus a firearm, I would have a friend go with as an overwatch. Both of you should carry and don't worry if you intimidate the guy. That is the point. If your gut tells you he is OK during the deal, losen up, but don't take any chances until then.

I've done plenty of face to face sales (non-gun) for higher amounts of cash, but always picked a visible high traffic parking lot and had back up. If the dollar amount is up there, say $2000+, I make it a point to change the meet location about 10 minutes prior to our meet time. Keep them on their toes...

[anchorbanger]

I though firearms sales was a no no on Craigsl*st.

If legal in NC, have the guy sign a bill of sale with weapon description, serial #, his full name, DL #, and affirming he is not a felon or is unauthorized to buy firearms.

And keep it...for a long time. Thats what I do here in VA which at this moment is legal. Only rule is to only sell to another resident of VA only and of good character.

[Smokey024]

If you are really worried couldn’t you just do the transaction at a gun shop and have them do a background check.

[sailinghudson25]

I'd not sell it If your uncomfortable. I'd only sell a pistol to someone with a permit, whether a permit is needed to own in the stae or not. Always ask for their ID. I have a basic form I made. It states the firearm sold and it is also a signed statement that the person is of legal age, is legal to own the firearm, and so on. I also have on the document that I sold a gun lock with the gun, a NYS requirement.

This is pretty close to what I have.

IF there is some fishiness involved, they will usually hassle about bringing a drivers license with them.

I'd also completely pass on the third party thing.

http://forum.pafoa.org/firearms-6/32...-free-use.html

[indie]

I always get ID and fill out a firearm bill of sale. At least you have a record of who exactly you sold it too. Since we dont have the ability as private sellers to really go any further than that. I think its prudent to at least have some record of the sale and check ID

[richis7]

Originally Posted by GoodOlFroathyOne

Ask them if they are legally allowed to own or purchase a firearm, ask to see their license and jot down their info and you should be fine. Check your local laws as municipalities may differ as to the responsibility of the seller etc.

If you are selling a rifle why are you asking to see a pistol permit?

But it sounds shady and I wouldn't be comfortable selling.

Personally I wait for gunshows and unload any surplus or unwanted rifles and have the person pay for an FFL transfer at the show Always good to get your name removed from the SN

Because if he has a pistol permit, I am more confident that he is legal.

[richis7]

Originally Posted by anchorbanger

I though firearms sales was a no no on Craigsl*st.

If legal in NC, have the guy sign a bill of sale with weapon description, serial #, his full name, DL #, and affirming he is not a felon or is unauthorized to buy firearms.

And keep it...for a long time. Thats what I do here in VA which at this moment is legal. Only rule is to only sell to another resident of VA only and of good character.

Not supposed to, but it happens all the time. People basically use it to let others know what they are selling/looking for, but the posts get flagged quickly. You can still get info from people if you check it enough and can find some deals, etc.

[joes]

Originally Posted by richis7

I have a question about doing face to face sales. If you are selling to someone what responsibility do you have to make sure they are legal to own the gun? Since you obviously cant run a background check are you legally responsible if the person you sell something to uses it in a crime? For what its worth the gun I am trying to sell to someone is a rifle. Its not actually my gun, I am just acting as middle man.

I asked the person for a pistol permit or to see a concealed carry permit but he said he couldnt do that at this time. It's a person who had an ad on craigslist so I dont know him at all. He claims to have a receipt from a pawn shop where he has bought guns and he says his girlfriend bought a .270 last week. Should I tell him I will sell it to her if I see the receipt and then what she does with it isn't my problem?

I don't want to do anything illegal and more than that I dont want to put a gun in the hands of someone that shouldnt have it.

What should I do? Its not imperative that this rifle gets sold, frankly I am just trying to make a quick $80 for not doing anything, but I dont want to do anything illegal in the process.

Any advice? Right now I'm leaning towards telling the guy I'm not comfortable selling it to him, but thought I would see what you guys think.

Anyone not willing to show u an ID i would not sell to........I believe there is a Federal law that requires a person when selling a weapon to keep a record of whom they sold it to...

[Izzy]

Personally if they said , "I can't do that at this time" that alone sends off about 10 different alarms in my brain. That is just not something an average person (imo) would say when asked to see something like that. Usually it would be, "I forgot it at home, or I don't have it with me."

Then again I would only sell a firearm to somebody I know / trust / or a FFL dealer anyways. I'd stay clear of being a middleman, might cause more trouble than you want / think. just my 2 cents

[Jeffrey]

In north carolina, private sales of long arms is legal. Sidearms must still go thru a dealer, or have a nics check done. You can handle the transaction easily at a gun store. Just have him pay a salesman to perform a background check, and take that off the price of the rifle. (usually about $40).

Here's why I think this deal is "hinky". 1. Why are you acting as middleman/broker? If you are selling it for a family member who knows nothing about guns, thats fine. 2. If he said "but my girlfriend can buy the gun", then he knows he can't!

Again, a private sale of long arms is legal in NC. But if you ain't comfortable, walk away! $80 ain't worth the mess of getting associated with the "wrong guy".

[rifle man]

The only thing you need to do is to verify that the buyer is at least 18 (for a rifle, some states require that the buyer be at least 21 for a handgun)
and have then sign a bill of sale that says something like " I, the undersigned, do hereby affirm that I am at least 18 years of age and can legally buy, own, use and transport firearms."

Some states require that in order for a FTF transfer a DL or Non-Driver State issued ID be used as well.

If you have a bill of sale and have the name and address of the buyer, at least according to federal law, you should be set.




N O T E
This is NOT to be taken as legal advice.

[richis7]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

In north carolina, private sales of long arms is legal. Sidearms must still go thru a dealer, or have a nics check done. You can handle the transaction easily at a gun store. Just have him pay a salesman to perform a background check, and take that off the price of the rifle. (usually about $40).

Here's why I think this deal is "hinky". 1. Why are you acting as middleman/broker? If you are selling it for a family member who knows nothing about guns, thats fine. 2. If he said "but my girlfriend can buy the gun", then he knows he can't!

Again, a private sale of long arms is legal in NC. But if you ain't comfortable, walk away! $80 ain't worth the mess of getting associated with the "wrong guy".

I am actually acting as middle man just to make a little cash on a gun that I paid nothing for. The person I'm selling it wants $650, I am trying to sell it for $730 and make $80 without investing anything. Basically I just happened to see the post on craigslist with the guy wanting to buy an AR and knew where one was and saw a potential way to make some easy money. Its turning out not to be so easy though.

As an update I emailed the guy back and told him I either wanted to see a pistol permit w/ his name on it & have him fill out a bill of sale or do the transaction at an FFL where we would split the transfer fee.

I have a feeling I'm about to get an email telling me to go to hell. Thats fine though.

[7.62mm]

go with your gut and don't do it at or near your house, but you already knew this.

Good luck
Charles

[richis7]

Upon talking to this guy I think the reason he is trying to buy it from an individual as opposed to just going to a gun shop is because he does not have a valid NC ID (expired license). I told him that if he could get a valid drivers license we would do the deal at a gun store and I would take the transfer fee off of the price of the rifle. At this point, the only way I am doing this deal is if it is done through a dealer.

[MR_SLOW]

I would never sell a gun to a stranger. In my state a FOID card is required and you bet your ass I want to see it.All states should require a FOID card. This is one law I would like to see Obama pass everywhere. I would like for anyone be able to get one, including felons. It should be good for 10 years. I'm against any registration of weapons, but a gun card tells me you are allow a weapon. We only pay 10.00 for our cards and it has your driver license picture on it.It could resolve any issues at gun shows.