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Old 02-02-2010, 04:13 PM
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Default Why not induce vomiting?



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I read the labels on the solvents and chemicals I use (yes, I really am that dull). The warnings on some solvents -- paint thinner, for example -- indicate that in case of accidental ingestion you should not induce vomiting.

It seem to me that vomiting is an intuitive response to ingesting any poison. What are the reasons for not inducing vomiting?

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.
Old 02-02-2010, 04:19 PM
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it can cause damage on the way back up they say dont because they want you to goto a hospital and get pumped out with a tube..
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:44 PM
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Indeed it can cause damage on the way up and out. The main thing is aerosolized stuff getting back into the lungs, causing damage there. Lungs don't have the protection and repair abilities of stomach mucus.

On the other hand, if there is no hospital, no suction tube treatment available, then ya gotta go with your best estimate.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:29 AM
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I took a big gulp of transmission fluid that was in a pop can, right next to my pop can, for some unknown reason. It felt strange going down, so I inspected the contents of my beverage. You're not SUPPOSED to do it, but I made sure I was barfing for the next six hours.

I lived, my Nordic brother, you will too. Just don't swallow any antifreeze, despite how delicious it may look. Ah, antifreeze, you are quite the temptress but I will not be fooled by your allure.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:36 AM
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If you swallow a caustic agent it will burn tissue going down and burn what's left coming up.
Old 02-03-2010, 07:59 AM
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Back in the 70's? I think.... I remember my Aunt's house, and she would often talk about her neighbor. The Dad worked massive hours, while the Mom stayed home to offer FULL TIME care to their daughter. If I remember the story correctly.... the little girl (I think she was a toddler, at the time?) got a hold of Draino, under the kitchen sink. Yep.... you guessed correctly... she drank it!!!! (maybe it was Lye? something about cleaning out the plumbing pipes)

I'm not sure if the Poison Control Centers existed back in the 60's or 70's? but... the parents did what they THOUGHT they should do.... and had her puking.

Being a young kid, myself, I didn't quite understand the physical handicap situation of their daughter.... nor, did I ever see the daughter, just heard the neighborhood gossip from my Aunt..... SUPPOSEDLY that stuff did MORE DAMAGE on the way up, than it did on the way down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She had to have a feeding tube in her stomach because her throat was GONE!!! NON-EXISTENT!!!!! No such thing as talking. If I remember correctly, her tongue was also gone. Something about LOTS AND LOTS of surgeries?

I wonder what ever happened to that little girl? So sad.
Old 02-03-2010, 08:48 AM
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You could aspirate, or swelling due to damage could block the airways.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:08 AM
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Just applying some basic (but maybe incorrect?) science here...

The girl drinking the lye got me thinking, assuming someone did drink lye (even modern drain cleaners are all sodium hydroxide, aside from the bottles in a plastic bag which are almost always sulfuric acid... donít drink that), assuming it wasnít a gallon of the stuff, wouldnít the best course of action be to consume some sort of acidic substance? Obviously stomach acid is there, but depending how much you drank and if you just ate yada yada it might not neutralize the acid. So... lemon juice? Hell even soda... Might not be the best but it would surely help no? Obviously poison control and hospital are the best options, but this IS a survivalist board right? Canít always depend on society

Just to drive the point home, I would think the same would apply if one drank an acid... Consume a base. The nice thing about that is that all your upset stomach cures on the shelves are bases. Pepto, mylanta, tums, etc etc... Plus, thereís good ole baking soda (though recalling the classic vinegar and baking soda volcano, donít know if I want to eat that stuff).

I don't know what one would do if you drank something actually toxic, not just damaging... Antifreeze, ATF, or an OD of a number of drugs... I would think pumping the stomach full of charcoal wouldnt be out of reach for the home survivalist... What do you guys think? I know there is a thread on sutures, and many advocate having surgical equipment "just in case". Isn't that stomach charcoal just... well... charcoal and water?
Old 02-09-2010, 01:16 PM
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Charcoal is indeed an 'all purpose' kind of remedy for poisons. Activated charcoal absorbs a lot of poisonous things. However it has no effect absorbing strong acids / strong bases. It also can be ineffective against some poisons, although at least it does no harm.

Acidic soda can indeed neutralize caustics. The problem is relative concentration, you need about a hundred times as much coke as the lye to counteract. Stomach can't hold enough. And stronger acids which are more powerful at counteracting the lye can cause a large heat release, or cause their own damage.

I did drink a shot glass of apple cider vinegar at one point, trying home cures for flu and fatigue. It hurt my throat but no damage. That would be the strongest acid I'd ever think of as drinkable. And it would still need 20 times as much vinegar as the original dose of lye.
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Old 02-09-2010, 02:35 PM
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If it burns going down it will burn coming up!
Old 02-09-2010, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razadp View Post
Charcoal is indeed an 'all purpose' kind of remedy for poisons. Activated charcoal absorbs a lot of poisonous things. However it has no effect absorbing strong acids / strong bases. It also can be ineffective against some poisons, although at least it does no harm.

Acidic soda can indeed neutralize caustics. The problem is relative concentration, you need about a hundred times as much coke as the lye to counteract. Stomach can't hold enough. And stronger acids which are more powerful at counteracting the lye can cause a large heat release, or cause their own damage.

I did drink a shot glass of apple cider vinegar at one point, trying home cures for flu and fatigue. It hurt my throat but no damage. That would be the strongest acid I'd ever think of as drinkable. And it would still need 20 times as much vinegar as the original dose of lye.
+1

Activated charcoal is similar to regular charcoal (not the briquettes), but has been formed to be more receptive to binding with chemicals.

Spot on with the heat release info too!

Induced vomiting is currently out of favor as a solution to ingested poison due to possibility of greater damage during vomiting (already mentioned) and the possibility of a person going unconscious before they vomit risking aspiration (stuff in the lungs). Aspiration will kill very effectively...

To that point I'm not sure you can even buy Ipecac anymore. I know we haven't carried it on ambulances for over a decade.
Old 02-12-2010, 11:42 AM
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Wow. I have Ipecac in my FAK specifically to make someone puke if they ingest something toxic. Turns out it might be a bad idea to use it on someone.

I used it on my dog after he ate a 1 week supply of his pain meds (don't ask), but I know that those pills would do not damage back coming up. If my nephew were to drink drano I would have given him the Ipecac without thinking twice, and I would likely do more harm than good.

Should I just get rid of it completely?

Just another case where it might be better to not have something in your FAK if you don't know exactly how to use it.
Old 02-13-2010, 10:51 AM
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Good call using the ipecac on yer pooch.

FWIW a teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide with induce vomiting in dogs with 5 minutes...

As far as ditching the ipecac do what you will. Just thought people should know there are some significant dangers associated with it's use.
Old 02-13-2010, 11:20 AM
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I accidentally drank a large swig of hydrogen peroxide. ( it was in a cup and looked like water) not knowing it was not water I thought it tasted off and after getting some water from the sink. I went to bed and woke up 4 hours later. My stomach felt like some one stabbed it. So I looked at the cup of water and. Realized it was not water. So instead of puking I drank around a gallon of water.
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Old 03-02-2010, 05:21 AM
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In such a situation I think we need to be thinking both damage control and acceptable casualties to ensure continued living. You swallow poison you're not going to walk away unscathed. Depending on what the substance was of course, I think Id be willing to risk damage puking it back up immediately and then deal with the aftermath rather than let a lethal substance just make itself at home in my stomach while I wait on hold for an hour asking big brother what to do or take more things and just hope they work in time.

Id rather have a heartburn-like feeling for life than be dead.
Old 03-02-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugsrok View Post
I accidentally drank a large swig of hydrogen peroxide. ( it was in a cup and looked like water) not knowing it was not water I thought it tasted off and after getting some water from the sink. I went to bed and woke up 4 hours later. My stomach felt like some one stabbed it. So I looked at the cup of water and. Realized it was not water. So instead of puking I drank around a gallon of water.
Interestingly, 3% hydrogen peroxide is what vets recommend to induce vomiting in dogs. We had a dog that got into a bottle of tums. We caught it pretty quick. The vet was unsure whether the consumed calcium would cause heart problems. So we promptly put the dog in the bath tub. We took a suction bulb of hydrogen peroxide and squirted some down her throat. A couple of minutes later, she was puking the tums.
Old 03-02-2010, 09:10 PM
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Yes, ipecac is still available although it's usage has fallen dramatically. Most people nowadays know not to induce vomiting on any acids, alkalis or petroleum products. We have used it some on O.D.'s and warfarin ingestion.
Old 03-02-2010, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfib View Post
+1

Activated charcoal is similar to regular charcoal (not the briquettes), but has been formed to be more receptive to binding with chemicals.

Spot on with the heat release info too!

Induced vomiting is currently out of favor as a solution to ingested poison due to possibility of greater damage during vomiting (already mentioned) and the possibility of a person going unconscious before they vomit risking aspiration (stuff in the lungs). Aspiration will kill very effectively...

To that point I'm not sure you can even buy Ipecac anymore. I know we haven't carried it on ambulances for over a decade.
We havent carried it for ages as well. We carry activated charcoal but in 18 yrs I dont recall using it once. I know in the ER's they use it, but after theyve passed an NG tube. An unpleasant experience in its own right
Old 06-27-2010, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123Testing View Post
Back in the 70's? I think.... I remember my Aunt's house, and she would often talk about her neighbor. The Dad worked massive hours, while the Mom stayed home to offer FULL TIME care to their daughter. If I remember the story correctly.... the little girl (I think she was a toddler, at the time?) got a hold of Draino, under the kitchen sink. Yep.... you guessed correctly... she drank it!!!! (maybe it was Lye? something about cleaning out the plumbing pipes)

I'm not sure if the Poison Control Centers existed back in the 60's or 70's? but... the parents did what they THOUGHT they should do.... and had her puking.

Being a young kid, myself, I didn't quite understand the physical handicap situation of their daughter.... nor, did I ever see the daughter, just heard the neighborhood gossip from my Aunt..... SUPPOSEDLY that stuff did MORE DAMAGE on the way up, than it did on the way down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She had to have a feeding tube in her stomach because her throat was GONE!!! NON-EXISTENT!!!!! No such thing as talking. If I remember correctly, her tongue was also gone. Something about LOTS AND LOTS of surgeries?

I wonder what ever happened to that little girl? So sad.

Hi ,my name is Ellen. I was born in 1960 and live in Washington State. I was 18 months old and swallowed drano. I am the first known living survivor of a drano ingestion. I was known as Lil' Pill back then. If you want to know more I will be glad to tell you. Drano, has ruled my life in all things, from childbearing to complications from surgeries as a small child...
Old 06-27-2010, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrviking View Post
I read the labels on the solvents and chemicals I use (yes, I really am that dull). The warnings on some solvents -- paint thinner, for example -- indicate that in case of accidental ingestion you should not induce vomiting.

It seem to me that vomiting is an intuitive response to ingesting any poison. What are the reasons for not inducing vomiting?

Thanks for indulging my curiosity.
I think you could find this pretty easily with a Google search.
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