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Old 01-22-2010, 11:37 PM
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Default What are the legal limit for perosnal gun powder?



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Is there a limit that is country wide or are there state limits? And does anyone have a link for this?
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:03 AM
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i dont think there are any might be some in certan states
Old 01-23-2010, 12:08 AM
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I was not sure... I "hear" yes ,no, but nobody can come up with anything...
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:10 AM
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My understanding is that the limit is based on the fire code in most places. There isn't an upper limit as long as the storage facility meets certain restrictions. Such as over a certain number of pounds, it must be stored in a wood box capable of resisting flame for at least one hour or some such... I have quite a bit stored here and just don't worry about it in general. At some point I should look up exactly what the restrictions are. If I do I'll post here.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:41 AM
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There are Federal Regulations on this and most likely in many State and local jurisdictions.

Dont have the link anymore but it is posted here on the forum board somewhere...here it is I found it!

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting..._handling.aspx

Beyond that amount there were some quanity/distance issues that had to be addressed and special building requirements. Having a back ground in explosives, trust me you really dont want to go there! 20 + lbs is a lot of gun powder to have on hand and in one place.

While you might be tempted to store more than the specified amount without complying with required storage requirements, I would most highly recommend that you reconsider your game plan. These rules werent just pulled out of thin air and put on paper and passed into law by some clueless idoit! These requirements were the result of lessons learned from several well documented explosive mishaps...basically written in blood, most by the US military!!!

The last time I had that much on hand, I had my residence "flagged" for 911 which is not a requirement for under 50 lbs. I just gave them a simple explanation that I reload and had a couple of 1 lbs containers of powder on hand as I shoot skeet and trap and was concerned for the safety of fire fighters should they come to my home for a fire. I figured thats was enough of a fair warning and that they didnt need to know I had a lot more than that. I also posted 1.4S hazard placard on my window to that room...that way if the neighbors home catches on fire mine is the FIRST home to get water sprayed on it by the first responding units!!! If it was my home that was on fire they then know how far to run!

The 1.4S placard sounds like a bad idea as it advertises that you have something explosive on the premiss, but I have found that very few people are knowledgable enough about hazard placards to have a clue.
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:52 AM
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I know there is a transportation limit of 25 lbs in original packaging and 50 lbs if you packed them in a wood box.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:09 AM
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My house burnt four years ago and I had 40 lbs of black powder and about 160 lbs of various modern powders on hand, all in plastic bottles (1,2,5,8 & 10 lbs) and the black powder stored in a proper floor steel containers...

The canisters melted and the powder fizzed up as they were all intact with lids in place but just a globules mess...What kept the firemen at bay was the exploding ammo...

The hoplophobes and antis wanted to impose a maximum ammo storage bill but that failed and I know that each locality has separate storage laws so check with the fire dept. and with your insurance company as to what they'll allow...
Old 01-23-2010, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
The canisters melted and the powder fizzed up as they were all intact with lids in place but just a globules mess
That is why it stipulates the original containers designed for storing powder. They are designed to do just as you described when they ignite where as if stored in another type of container it is likley to explode as it will not be able to vent pressure and just burn.

Good idea on checking with your insurance company as I am sure they have some fine print somewhere in thier policy. Generally speaking I have found the fire dept to be a poor source of info although you might find a Fire Chief that actually has a brain that just doesnt jump to conclusions and freak first at the mere mention of gun powder. The topic of gun powder doesnt seem to be a subject they are overly familar with, at least the ones I have talked to anyways. They should however have a lot of resources and info available to them on this though.

Quote:
What kept the firemen at bay was the exploding ammo...
Yes burning ammo will definitely cause a problem and a hazard to bystanders. Its not near the hazard it would be if fired from a gun but at short distances it can definitely cause serious injury making the safe stand off distances much greater than for Powder alone.
Old 01-23-2010, 08:22 AM
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Does newer ammo still cook off like that? I have been told that it doesn't.
Old 01-23-2010, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by innayat View Post
Does newer ammo still cook off like that? I have been told that it doesn't.
Why wouldn't it cook off? Has something happened to the laws of physics, thermodynamic, combustion etc. in the last 20 years?

The problem was and is that 90% of it was all reloads, everything except rimfire...
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Old 01-23-2010, 11:59 AM
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I dont think the technology thats been incorperated into many military explosives has made it to the civilian gun powder market yet. When it does ammo will become considerably more expensive. There are additives added that will do a better job of controlling the burn rate and the stability of the powder though making storage, handling and use much safer and more predictable. These additives dont always work as well in reality as they do paper. But for example, the military has just about discontinued the use of LDGP bombs loaded with H-6 and Minol in favor or PBXN-109 which is considerably less volitile when engulfed in flames and it cooks off. It however is very difficult to get around the laws of physics as previously posted.
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Old 01-23-2010, 04:05 PM
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Associations and administrations set guidelines based on their expertize. LAegislative bodies who's expertize is law uses these trade associations for their technical guidance. The governing body for fire protection is the NFPA. As part of my job, I have abide by a good chunk of their rules. Mainly with flamable liquids and electrical equipment.

The NFPA has set a reccommended limit of 10,000 primers in a home residence. Most state and local fire ordinances and fire marshal laws follow all of the NFPA suggestions.

Some states put limit on home amounts. Ny state has that as well as many other states. Blackpowder is a explosive, therefore a whole different set of laws go with that. Gunpowder is a highly flammable substance and has much looser rules about storage.
Old 01-23-2010, 04:37 PM
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I think after so many pounds of powder you have to keep it in some kind of vault.
Old 01-23-2010, 06:57 PM
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Actually that is a bad place to put it. A very tough and sealed container can act like a grenade. Gunpowder burns at atompsheric pressure. Is a sealed enviroment, it burns hundreds or times faster.

The legal way to store is in a wooden magazine. It is a wooden box that is made out of 1" thick wood. A maximum of 50lbs in each one. There is also other regs, like distances from doors and such.

IT kind of sounds like 50lbs is the maximum in a residence. Here's the short list of regs.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech...h_notes.htm/60
Old 01-23-2010, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
IT kind of sounds like 50lbs is the maximum in a residence.
For all intents and purposes thats the hard fast down and dirty rule of gun powder storage amounts. Beyond that you start running into code complience on construction of the storage facility, access security, quantity distance issues (ie...how far away a inhabited structure has to be from the storage site) just to name a few.
Old 01-24-2010, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuniticFringeInc View Post
For all intents and purposes that's the hard fast down and dirty rule of gun powder storage amounts. Beyond that you start running into code compliance on construction of the storage facility, access security, quantity distance issues (IE...how far away a inhabited structure has to be from the storage site) just to name a few.
I know that it's 50 lbs of black powder before you have to build a special/separate chamber/magazine/room whatever but I haven't found anything for the amount of smokeless powder...most of the shooters in my club have over 100 lbs and some over 200 lbs--all have been inspected by the fire dept. (most have BP caches--ours can hold up to 20kg/44 lbs) and all have household insurance...

I know lots of gun stores that will have 2K, 3K lbs of powder on their shelves but are limited to the 25 lbs in a safe for BP...
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:11 PM
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I would keep no more than 20lbs. to stay within fire code. Of course that is what my reloading manuals suggested and I don't think they were written by bunch of dummies.
Old 01-26-2010, 04:14 PM
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Yep, that's what it looks like from the link you posted:

"10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness."

But perhaps more could be in an out building or such if also properly stored?
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