Survivalist Forum

Advertise Here

Go Back   Survivalist Forum > Survival & Preparedness Forum > Disaster Preparedness General Discussion
Articles Chat Room Classifieds Donations Gallery Groups Links Store Survival Files



Disaster Preparedness General Discussion Anything Disaster Preparedness or Survival Related

Advertise Here
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2010, 09:35 AM
WhatIsChazaq WhatIsChazaq is offline
Acts 13:38-39
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Buying Land...National Forest?



Advertise Here

Any thoughts on buying an established "ranch" WITHIN (completely surrounded by) National Forest? Or...for that matter, land that borders "public land"/National Forest, etc?

Sure...it's appealing to know that the bordering land won't be developed, but what kind of scenarios might go down if SHTF?
Old 01-22-2010, 09:41 AM
snowdog650's Avatar
snowdog650 snowdog650 is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 1,155
Thanks: 640
Thanked 1,370 Times in 527 Posts
Default

Personally, I think it is nearly ideal. I think your biggest issue will be hunters coming onto your land more often than if you only bordered USFS land. However, if you are able to fence it off and post signs, then it will be less of an issue. Issue won't go away, but it will be less.

As far as STHF ... I don't think it will make any difference whether you are in the middle of USFS land or not. People are going to ignore boundaries either way.

I think it is a good move.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to snowdog650 For This Useful Post:
Old 01-22-2010, 09:47 AM
Harmless Drudge's Avatar
Harmless Drudge Harmless Drudge is online now
Thirteenther
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: A once-free nation
Age: 36
Posts: 13,066
Thanks: 85,934
Thanked 38,484 Times in 9,467 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatIsChazaq View Post
Any thoughts on buying an established "ranch" WITHIN (completely surrounded by) National Forest? Or...for that matter, land that borders "public land"/National Forest, etc?

Sure...it's appealing to know that the bordering land won't be developed, but what kind of scenarios might go down if SHTF?
I live next door to state forest. out of 14 1/2 acres, my house is only 144' away from the borderline. It is my largest security concern.

But this is only the case because all of my other neighbors are bugged in. The State forest is the weakest link only because my neighbors are awesome. In any other situation, the scenario would be reversed.

My biggest security concern with the state forest pre-SHTF is that hunters might cross the line and I don't trust the idiots who hunt around here not to shoot innocent passers-by like my children. Post-SHTF, my concern would be the number of people who grab their BOB's and want to play Rambo in the state forest and stumble across a house with gardens, orchards, fresh water, electricity, heat, etc...
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Harmless Drudge For This Useful Post:
Old 01-22-2010, 10:10 AM
WhatIsChazaq WhatIsChazaq is offline
Acts 13:38-39
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

We plan for it to be a self sustainable "bugged in" location...where we grow enough to sell at the local farmers markets. I have flip flopped back and forth on this. Be a little closer to town and more exposed but have a bit more of an open "organic farm" business or hunker down real nice and secluded and export our produce to local markets?

Two out of three places for sale in Colorado under contract...I better figure this out sooner or later to get my criteria straight for the land hunt.
Old 01-22-2010, 10:14 AM
temu temu is offline
I love this forum
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Them gold-bearing hills of the Mother Lode!
Posts: 9,296
Thanks: 26,002
Thanked 25,009 Times in 7,888 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmless Drudge View Post
I live next door to state forest. out of 14 1/2 acres, my house is only 144' away from the borderline. It is my largest security concern.

But this is only the case because all of my other neighbors are bugged in. The State forest is the weakest link only because my neighbors are awesome. In any other situation, the scenario would be reversed.

My biggest security concern with the state forest pre-SHTF is that hunters might cross the line and I don't trust the idiots who hunt around here not to shoot innocent passers-by like my children. Post-SHTF, my concern would be the number of people who grab their BOB's and want to play Rambo in the state forest and stumble across a house with gardens, orchards, fresh water, electricity, heat, etc...
I'm surrounded by forest. What I have, is salt blocks. By law, my place is a baited area now, so no hunting within 400' yards of my borders. It does give you some breathing room when you confront encroaching hunters.

I wouldn't trade this place for the world!

Old 01-22-2010, 10:24 AM
WhatIsChazaq WhatIsChazaq is offline
Acts 13:38-39
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Sounds great...is that a state or federal law?
Old 01-22-2010, 10:38 AM
Cowboy Steve's Avatar
Cowboy Steve Cowboy Steve is offline
Preparing for my Family
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North Central Idaho
Posts: 258
Thanks: 239
Thanked 436 Times in 163 Posts
Default

After owning, and then selling a parcel completely suurounded by US Forest land, I'd rather own a parcel completely surrounded by good neighbors. All during the year the public lands bordering our land was open to all types of users. We were ripped off a number of times, fences were cut, and constant noise from off road toys which finally convinced us to look elsewhere.

Being surrounded by private lands adds an additional layer of security before folks can get to your place. And, if you spend the time to develop a good relationship with them they will usually give you access to their lands.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cowboy Steve For This Useful Post:
Old 01-22-2010, 10:44 AM
ComputerGuy's Avatar
ComputerGuy ComputerGuy is offline
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: BFE, OK
Age: 41
Posts: 231
Thanks: 679
Thanked 194 Times in 86 Posts
Default

Baiting laws are Federal wildlife protection laws.
Old 01-22-2010, 11:02 AM
Mtnman Mike's Avatar
Mtnman Mike Mtnman Mike is offline
Tested in the Wilderness
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado and Wyoming in the warm months on my BOL
Age: 56
Posts: 4,791
Thanks: 9,122
Thanked 16,962 Times in 3,508 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Thread Outstanding Thread 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Especially for the Many new people, here are many pics of my BOL - survival retreat > http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=84562

Which is surrounded by the million plus acre Medicine Bow national forest. There is also a few hundred acres of private land mixed throughout but two sides of my land border the national forest. Look at my homepage or the link above and my other long pic threads for Much more info if any are interested.

Security is the least of my concerns for it is very remote, rugged and covered in snow about 8 months of the year. But I still think it is an excellent survival retreat location with abundant wood, water and wildlife. There is also some land for sale across the road from my place.
Old 01-22-2010, 01:25 PM
Esi's Avatar
Esi Esi is offline
Ripper
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 224
Thanks: 148
Thanked 126 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComputerGuy View Post
Baiting laws are Federal wildlife protection laws.
No, baiting laws differ from state to state. They can also differ within the state, such as in Wisconsin, where baiting in the southern half of the state is illegal, but baiting in the northern half is legal. However they do limit the amount of bait you can put out depending on your amount of acreage. However, the kicker is that you are allowed to plant feed plots of any size in the northern and southern portions of the state. Weird huh? Make sure you check out your local laws before you put out them salt blocks.
Old 01-23-2010, 11:27 AM
ForestBeekeeper's Avatar
ForestBeekeeper ForestBeekeeper is online now
Farmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Maine
Posts: 16,060
Thanks: 18,308
Thanked 22,219 Times in 9,036 Posts
Awards Showcase
Outstanding Helpful Post 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Here baiting is very common.

We have no National Forests around here, most properties are owned by non-resident owners. Families who have a cabin on the land. Some may visit their cabin a few times a year, others may go years at a time without visiting.

Most local families 'hunt' and keep their freezers filled with game meat. Locals bait on their own land, and shoot game from their porch.

It is hunters from away who tromp through the forests here. Rarely are they knowledgeable of property boundaries, are whose land they are on.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ForestBeekeeper For This Useful Post:
Old 01-23-2010, 05:49 PM
PrepperCon PrepperCon is offline
Hiker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 668
Thanks: 497
Thanked 752 Times in 342 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdog650 View Post
Personally, I think it is nearly ideal. I think your biggest issue will be hunters coming onto your land more often than if you only bordered USFS land. However, if you are able to fence it off and post signs, then it will be less of an issue. Issue won't go away, but it will be less.

As far as STHF ... I don't think it will make any difference whether you are in the middle of USFS land or not. People are going to ignore boundaries either way.

I think it is a good move.
In this part of the world, open hostility exists between the US Forest Service and private land holders in situations such as you have presented.

The Feds want the private land owners OUT! The land holders just want to be left alone. Federal retaliation is non-stop in their endeavor to "recapture" contiguous land holdings themselves. Taxes on the private lands have been going up exponentially lately (what a surprise that the feds would sic the tax whores on the private folks).

The best example I'm aware of on this topic is the Stehekin area, at the North end of Lake Chelan. Only accessible by trail or boat, the Forest Service and locals are continually fighting a well documented battle over land rights issues. The forest service, by the way, is the "newcomer", but that should surprise no one.
Old 01-23-2010, 06:32 PM
DesertPhoenix06's Avatar
DesertPhoenix06 DesertPhoenix06 is offline
Prepared
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 259
Thanks: 179
Thanked 248 Times in 108 Posts
Default

Check out local rules & regs but, in a lot of cases (pre-SHTF) the state and/or Fed will provide subsidies to keep your adjacent property forested (never mind if you put some spruce in and call it a "christmas tree" farm; THAT is a boondoggle of epic proportions)...I have a friend who makes his land payment from all the subsidy money for his farm adjacent to a national park... worth looking at while you are shopping...until TSHTF let Uncle Sugar pay the mortgage, afterwards what diff does it make anyway...???
Old 02-08-2011, 08:41 PM
Bayou woods guy Bayou woods guy is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 695
Thanks: 2,205
Thanked 1,177 Times in 475 Posts
Default

Howdy, new guy here. I know it's an old thread, but I had to comment. I own 50+ acres mostly surrounded by national forest, and I love it. Luckily here there is very little access and usage. Hunters do tend to wander, but I have found in the past years that it's not hard to deter them from hunting the forest land around me. Keeping them off my place hasn't been too hard either. Some stern first words with pistol at hip seems to work. It's great to be able to wander and have so much more land right at your doorstep. I wouldn't sell my place for any amount of money. I think the main things to consider when owning a piece of land next to a public forest is the local crowd, the amount of usage on that land and the access. There is a lot of land next to national forest here locally that I wouldn't want to own. Every piece of land has its pros and cons. Know the area and what you're getting into.
The Following User Says Thank You to Bayou woods guy For This Useful Post:
Old 02-08-2011, 08:46 PM
hillsidedigger hillsidedigger is offline
Hunter
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,241
Thanks: 81
Thanked 797 Times in 428 Posts
Default

It's ironic but around here (an area of a patchwork of private lands and national forest lands in the Southern Appalachians) hunters are becoming very vocal, rude, threatening and militant about entering upon private lands within the national forests. It seems to be an attempt to intimidate or scare the private landowners (particularly little 80 year old widows) into simply giving their land to the national forests.

The hunters scream that: "My bear dogs can't read signs!" There's a lot of letters back and forth in the local paper each hunting season.
Old 02-08-2011, 08:58 PM
NewtoAlaska NewtoAlaska is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta atm
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Default

My lots backyard in AK is the Chugach National forest!
Old 02-08-2011, 08:58 PM
VonGhent's Avatar
VonGhent VonGhent is offline
It is what it is
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 293
Thanks: 105
Thanked 173 Times in 101 Posts
Default

I heard about this but dont know how true its or if its even real. You cant buy national forest land but you can trade other land for it, so if you bought dessert acreage for $100/ acre you can trade that for national forest acreage that would run on open market for $10k/ acre. Sounds f-ed up, I looked into it but couldnt find much on it.
The Following User Says Thank You to VonGhent For This Useful Post:
Old 02-08-2011, 08:59 PM
Bayou woods guy Bayou woods guy is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 695
Thanks: 2,205
Thanked 1,177 Times in 475 Posts
Default

And oh yeah, when SHTF, people will definitely be heading away from urban areas to national forest where they can escape and "live off the land" and looters will look for isolated rural homesteads that are known for having supplies. Rural communities will be reborn, and locals will depend on one another like they did in the past before Wal-Mart. I think that when SHTF, the further you are away from urban areas, the better. Desperate people will still show up at your doorstep regardless, though.
Old 02-08-2011, 09:04 PM
Bayou woods guy Bayou woods guy is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 695
Thanks: 2,205
Thanked 1,177 Times in 475 Posts
Default

Knowing a little about the USFS, they will "swap" land with people for some parcels of land. Making a lot of money off the deal...doubtful. They swap based on land and timber value.
The Following User Says Thank You to Bayou woods guy For This Useful Post:
Old 02-08-2011, 09:13 PM
Bayou woods guy Bayou woods guy is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 695
Thanks: 2,205
Thanked 1,177 Times in 475 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hillsidedigger View Post
It's ironic but around here (an area of a patchwork of private lands and national forest lands in the Southern Appalachians) hunters are becoming very vocal, rude, threatening and militant about entering upon private lands within the national forests. It seems to be an attempt to intimidate or scare the private landowners (particularly little 80 year old widows) into simply giving their land to the national forests.

The hunters scream that: "My bear dogs can't read signs!" There's a lot of letters back and forth in the local paper each hunting season.
Dog-deer hunting just got outlawed on national forest here. The public involvement is what got it banned. Many local "politicians" are upset about it, but it is a great case of where the citizens actually had an influence on the public land usage. There were lots of problems with the same things you talk about. Those 80 year old ladies need to have them a woods hand to take care of their place and keep out the riff-raff!
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Kevin Felts 2006 - 2012,
Green theme by http://www.themesbydesign.net