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Old 12-31-2009, 02:40 PM
MaskedLady MaskedLady is offline
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Default arrows vs body armour?



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Alright, so I have heard it said from many sources that arrows will penetrate most body armor. Any one out there have studies, videos, or personal experience (ever tried it?) with this? Just curious. One of those rumors I'd like to confirm....
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Old 12-31-2009, 02:44 PM
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Kroenen117 Kroenen117 is offline
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masked lady i have a good link if you would like it pm me ( the armor ive seen tested is bear proof armor and it can withstand almost anything including arrows bullets car hits everything.) its kinda chunky im gonna go find it again. tell me if your interested.
Old 12-31-2009, 04:35 PM
Sagembob Sagembob is offline
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Not sure about arrows it seems unlikely but I have heard something similar with ice picks.
Old 12-31-2009, 05:15 PM
Brother Buck Brother Buck is offline
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Arrows will sail right through kevlar and any other ballistic fiber armor.
Ballistic woven armor relies of multiple layers of high tensile strength weave to blunt and disperse the inertial forces that would otherwise carry a bullet into the wearer.
An arrow cuts right through it. There are stab resistant vest such as used in prisons that might slow or stop an arrow but kevlar will not.
SAPI plates will.
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Old 12-31-2009, 05:20 PM
griffin71 griffin71 is offline
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I agree with Brother Buck. Kevlar panel Vs. arrow is no match at all.
Old 12-31-2009, 06:13 PM
dirtydog dirtydog is offline
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not with arrows but i have shot the 5.56 round through kevlar.My view on this bodyarmor thing and most medics will agree with me is shooting them in the pelvic region will eliminate your threat.
Old 12-31-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagembob View Post
Not sure about arrows it seems unlikely but I have heard something similar with ice picks.

How much force can a person put into using an ice pick? Imagine how much force is possible from a bow shooting an arrow...

An arrow absolutely will penetrate soft ballistic armor.
Old 01-01-2010, 01:03 AM
Aven Aven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koevoet View Post
How much force can a person put into using an ice pick? Imagine how much force is possible from a bow shooting an arrow...

An arrow absolutely will penetrate soft ballistic armor.

I think that will depend on if the arrow has broadheads or points. I think you might have a decent chance of surviving against a field point with ballistic armor. It can't slice the fibers. It's basically a bullet with a short point on the end. It will probably break the skin, but it won't be a lethal shot.

The finer the point the less pressure needed to penetrate to a killing depth. An ice pick will go into a body with less pressure applied than a thick bladed knife. An small child can kill an adult with epee/schlager. That is as long as they hit a soft spot.

Last edited by Aven; 01-01-2010 at 01:08 AM..
Old 01-01-2010, 01:09 AM
a.leecarter a.leecarter is offline
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im in the army and got some extra plates shot them with evry thing from a 30-30 to abow and yes an arrow will penitrate 7.62armor the trick is the arow cuts and a bullet pushes
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:14 AM
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I see, Uncle is still handing out quality equipment. I'm sorry to hear that.
Old 01-01-2010, 01:24 AM
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arrows will pierce body armor like an arrow will pierce a bucket of sand but a 30-06 will not
Old 01-01-2010, 01:35 AM
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heres one of the videos of this guy thats my hero.

in another video he used arrows and other lethal weapons against it.. nothing its awesome.
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:57 AM
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that would be a great suit to have if it was practical but shtf wont work
Old 01-01-2010, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtydog View Post
not with arrows but i have shot the 5.56 round through kevlar.My view on this bodyarmor thing and most medics will agree with me is shooting them in the pelvic region will eliminate your threat.
At best it puts them down but if armed they can and will still be able to return fire and they most certainly do and with more gusto because they hurt because they are wounded and are now seeking vengeance of they who shot then and they want payback! Yes, you've stopped or seriously slowed down their advancement and unless you hit one of the three major arteries running in the pelvic girdle and they bleed out they still are a threat...

Quote:
The pelvic region is “super vascular” in nature because it is where the upper femoral arteries, iliac arteries abdominal aorta are located (Spartacus Triangle). Because of this, ballistic injuries to this area have a high mortality rate. When an artery is severed, the body automatically responds by retracting the artery and shutting down the flow of blood. Though this is very serious, it is even worse when bullets, fragmentation impact, or bone spalling tear an artery. With a torn artery, the body does not automatically restrict blood flow to the extremities and continues to function as it normally would. This can lead to massive blood loss and certain death within minutes if not adequately treated.

Taken with permission from the Diamondback Tactical
You being prudent shoot the bad guy in the pelvis and they bleed out and you get either charged by the police or sued by the family or both...
Old 01-01-2010, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.leecarter View Post
im in the army and got some extra plates shot them with evry thing from a 30-30 to abow and yes an arrow will penitrate 7.62armor the trick is the arow cuts and a bullet pushes
Glad I'm hanging on to my compound, then. Too bad arrows cost a fotune....
Old 01-03-2010, 10:41 PM
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1st you must remember how they cut Kevlar to make a vest they cut the material with a reciprocating knife and sew it together. A knife ,icepick or arrow will cut through a vest with no problem.

In the UK a few years ago they had a problem with their Bobbies getting stabbed so they put a layer of chain mall in with the Kevlar problem solved. I don't think it would stop an arrow, it has too much energy and a sharp broad head.
Old 01-04-2010, 01:42 AM
theyeti theyeti is offline
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I did some reading and answers to this question are all over the place. I could not find any verifiable scientific tests and only found one forum that posted some picture results from testing its members did. I included the pictures although I could only get one set to download. After looking at all of this I would say there is a good chance a vest would stop an arrow however it is not designed to do so and some will penetrate especially with a high quality broadhead, i.e. don’t bet your life on it.

Certainly not definitive results but better than pure Internet rumor or speculation.


Here is a post concerning arrows vs. Kevlar by Beastmaster from the ArcheryTalk Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMAX
Two years ago, after our swat team encountered a subject armed with a crossbow, they asked me to do some testing. I used a vest issued to me in 1991 and shot it with Muzzy's, Stinger Buzzcuts, and Montecs from my 72lb Mathews Drenalin with Axis 377 Grain arrows. The Buzzcut got the very tip thru the vest, but it wouldn't have caused a scratch on the wearer. The Muzzy and Montec barely made a scratch on the vest. No trauma plate involved here, just the kevlar vest. I was suprised as I assumed the arrows would blow right thru, but they just didn't. This was only a level IIA vest as well.

Issue here is the number of layers. And, was the ballistic panel stretched out to be similar to one worn on a body? That has a huge difference on the performance results on both the depth of entry and the actual protection provided. That's why the NIJ for it's test uses some sort of clay or other backing with the panel stretched out and affixed around the backing material.

Also - Soft Body Armor back in 1991 had way more layers than it does now.

I'll pick on my old Level II body armor. It had 25 layers of Kevlar and was pretty thick. This body armor was also issued in 1991. IIRC, Body armor issued in late 1999/early 2000 was around 20 layers of Kevlar/SpectraShield or some other aramid. My most current body armor (Level IIIA) has about 20 layers of of Dyneema and Twaron mix, is slightly thinner (about 8 millimeters thick), but has far better protection than what I had before.

More layers for low and slow stuff like our arrows means a greater chance of stopping it. Even if it's cutting it's way in, each layer getting cut means that it's a layer that's slowing the arrow down.

Another forum that I frequent asked this same question enough to where I contacted (earlier this year) Second Chance (well, Safariland) and Point Blank.

Neither company would guarantee protection from a fixed bladed, cut on contact broadhead shot out of a modern compound bow. I do suspect, however, that they won't guarantee protection out of liability reasons more than anything else.

-Steve


Here are couple of posts concerning arrows vs. Kevlar by JD X729 from the ArcheryTalk Forum

I did a test.
________________________________________
I just tested my field points and Grim Reaper Hades fixed blade broadheads on a Type IIA vest. The first field point I shoot bounced off back towards me and landed 5 yards away from the vest. The second field point I shoot bounced off back towards me and landed 8 yards away from the vest. The Hades broadhead punched through the vest and penetrated 3.5 inches into my Morel broadhead target I was using as a backstop.

The tests were done using a Bowtech Admiral @ 61 lbs with Carbon Express Aramid KV 350s with 100 grain tips with a total weight 430 grains at 10 yards. Last time I chroned these arrows I got around 270 fps.

Pics to follow later tonight or tomorrow, gotta run now.


I shot it with 9mm, .357 Mag and .38 handgun rounds. As well as a 12 gauge 1 ounce slug and a 7mm-08.
It was only a .17 HMR not a .17 Remington that I shot at it, had a brain fart there for a minute.

The vest stopped everything but the 7mm-08 and the .17 HMR, defiantly wouldn't want to get hit with the slug, punched about 3/4 of the vest through my 3/8 plywood target backer.
It blew about a 3 inch hole in the plywood.
The slug by itself would probably do less damage passing through if it didn't hit any bone than all the extra surface the vest adds causing there to be a lot of broken ribs and punctured organs, OUCH.

Didn't even bother trying the 7mm or 300 Rem Magnums, it was obvious what would happen.
I am going to try a .44 Mag next through the pistol and rifle. I'm sure the pistol will get stopped, the rifle I'm not sure whats going to happen.


Ok, here are a couple of pics.

As you will see its been shot up pretty good with firearms first. Did that when I was hunting during rifle season, some buddies wanted to see what would happen. Had a couple of extra and older vests so I figured what the heck, that and I wanted to try it my self.

First pic, after being shoot with 2 field points that bounced off and one broadhead that punched through. I shot the vest when it was dark out and didn't have a peep on the string so the arrows didn't hit exactly where I wanted them to soooo .

Second pic, shows where the 2 field points hit, between the .357 mag and .38, and where the 3 blade Hades broadhead went through.

You can also see where all the firearm rounds impacted, I tried to spread out the rounds. Rifle rounds at 100 yards, 7mm-08 just had a new scope put on it and was just bore sighted. Pistol and shotgun at 50 yards. Didn't want to get any closer I had a close call when I shot Ballistic sheetrock / wallboard last year, had some fragments come back at me , didn't want to push my luck again.

The vest held up pretty good considering they are not designed to take multiple shots.
Attached Thumbnails
Broadhead Penetration 2.jpg   Arrow Aftermath 2.jpg  

Last edited by theyeti; 01-05-2010 at 02:41 AM..
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:56 PM
SharkHunter SharkHunter is offline
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Unless its a specific silent threat eliminationlLeave the bow to silent hunting not self defense.
Old 01-10-2010, 06:23 PM
FarmerJohn FarmerJohn is offline
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even if they have a vest on that your arrow cant go through if you aim for the armpit youl get lungs and heart as vest doest cover there
Old 01-10-2010, 11:26 PM
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Silent arrows + citizen * body armor zombie = mental mind games against zombie
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