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Old 12-14-2009, 01:24 PM
KR555 KR555 is offline
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Default American Militia, conventional tactics vs guerilla tactics, "FHTF"



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When the "FHTF", seem like American milita doesn't seem well trained, using conventional tactics. For me this seem like a death trap trying to hold off a US Federal Army well trained, well equipped, all the air support they have, and are dominated on conventional warefare. So in my view old school conventional tactics, winner goes to the one with better technology.

Guerilla tactics, it's known to be unbeatable from Vietnam to IRAQ and etc if i have not name.

Most American non military, have access to old technology, best we have are semi-auto rifle.

My Opinion Guerllia tactics well beat US government tyrants.
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Old 12-14-2009, 01:34 PM
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don't underestimate the militia.
Old 12-14-2009, 02:16 PM
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Guerilla Tactics "worked" in the countries mention only because they had ouside source of money and material and a safe haven. Even our own revolution depended on the French for $ and material. Of course as long as the "people" are with you still have a chance, it'll just take longer.
Old 12-14-2009, 02:20 PM
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There is one major difference. The US Armed forces require logistics trails from within the United States itself. Sabotage would have a significant impact on their ability to fight at least over the long haul.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KR555 View Post
When the "FHTF", seem like American milita doesn't seem well trained, using conventional tactics. For me this seem like a death trap trying to hold off a US Federal Army well trained, well equipped, all the air support they have, and are dominated on conventional warefare. So in my view old school conventional tactics, winner goes to the one with better technology.

Guerilla tactics, it's known to be unbeatable from Vietnam to IRAQ and etc if i have not name.

Most American non military, have access to old technology, best we have are semi-auto rifle.

My Opinion Guerllia tactics well beat US government tyrants.
I agree totally. After coming back from Germany and the 173rd i got stationed here in GA. I met up with a few of the militia groups here and i can tell you this.

1. They are for the most part in some of the worst shape i have ever seen.
2. Their equipment and supplies are in disarray. They insist on old outdated equipment.
3. They have an inverted pyramid system. Which means everyone is in a leadership position. Its WAY to top heavy.
4. They use old tech that can easily be used against them (ie: HAM)
5. They are extremely resistant to change. Most are Vietnam vets and are still fighting Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan vets have more practical and up to date knowledge but higher ups dont listen or have interest.
6. All of the organizations you find online are so heavily compromised that they are irrelevant. They simply can not be trusted.
7. The so called "secret" militias are to small to function effectively. The could harass but thats about it.

Eventually the sheeple are gonna get fed up. The government would paint the revolutionaries terrorists and the sheeple will go right along with it. Next thing you know families will be turning members in. At this point even wins would become loses.

The only real hope would be turning large portions of the active military. Generals, Colonels, and other field grade officers would have to turn bringing their men with them. Everyday this becomes harder and harder. If you dont think the government is planing for this your mistaken. They keep planing we keep talking. Its always the same. We're losing without a shot even being fired. You know why? Because we are already at war. Its just we dont know it yet.
Old 12-14-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
don't underestimate the militia.
Im a member of the Michigan Militia. West Michigan Volunteers . We have no intention of ingaging any United States Military in Battle. I would hope to be standing behind them with their back. Most of our member are serving now or are ex military. We are a neat blend of Army regulars, special forces, Navy , airforce and Marines. Not to mention a lot of citizens just wanting to be ready.

This Idea that we stand against the government is complete falacy. We do no such thing. We would get our asses kicked by any regular army that had full auto weapons, air power and armored divisions. We dont have full auto weapons,well most of us dont. We dont have tanks, well most of us don't. what little Navel forces we could muster are small gun boats armed with light semi auto .50 caliber rifles like the Barret and small aircraft like single engine planes. W e could never hope to engage any Military in an out right toe to toe fight.

W e believe that if ever it gets bad enough that we are fighting each other the military will divide as it did before. States taking sides. You will not see Militia opposing United States Military in any way. If we did have to defend our country from someone attempting to remove our Constitution we would have to fight a Guerilla war. Hit and run to the woods type of stuff. W e train in these types of scenarios. Small teams using cover and blending into the population. One of my cammo patterns is a jogging suit ha ha ha . Another is a homeless guy with an old beat up trench coat. Then of course is my woodland uniform, real tree, Mossy oak, snow cammo etc.

Dont under estimate us but don,t label us as anti government because we are not . The Militia is the last line of defense of our Constitution. The armed population. Kingfish
Old 12-14-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by urban View Post
I agree totally. After coming back from Germany and the 173rd i got stationed here in GA. I met up with a few of the militia groups here and i can tell you this.

1. They are for the most part in some of the worst shape i have ever seen.
2. Their equipment and supplies are in disarray. They insist on old outdated equipment.
3. They have an inverted pyramid system. Which means everyone is in a leadership position. Its WAY to top heavy.
4. They use old tech that can easily be used against them (ie: HAM)
5. They are extremely resistant to change. Most are Vietnam vets and are still fighting Vietnam. Iraq and Afghanistan vets have more practical and up to date knowledge but higher ups dont listen or have interest.
6. All of the organizations you find online are so heavily compromised that they are irrelevant. They simply can not be trusted.
7. The so called "secret" militias are to small to function effectively. The could harass but thats about it.

Eventually the sheeple are gonna get fed up. The government would paint the revolutionaries terrorists and the sheeple will go right along with it. Next thing you know families will be turning members in. At this point even wins would become loses.

The only real hope would be turning large portions of the active military. Generals, Colonels, and other field grade officers would have to turn bringing their men with them. Everyday this becomes harder and harder. If you dont think the government is planing for this your mistaken. They keep planing we keep talking. Its always the same. We're losing without a shot even being fired. You know why? Because we are already at war. Its just we dont know it yet.
Wow is that a load of crap,

1 . Equipment in disarray , not here pal.

2. Insist on old out dated equipment? you got to kidding me man. We get the best the government will allow us to own legally. I have a bravo built AR-15 . We would own rocket launchers if they were legal.

3. pyramid? W e have the same structure as the the Army. only fewer classes. Level 1 rifleman, level 2 rifleman (fire team leader) group leader or colonel as the army would call him. Division leaders and corps leaders.

4, 5 6 and 7 are all pure bull **** except the part about Iraq and Afganistan vet being more up to date. My group leader is a veteran of I raq, the first war.

But again this Idea that we are going to take on the Unites states military is a fallacy. We have zero intention to do this. Our only mission is defense of the Constitution. The Military will divide if that is ever an issue. Oathkeepers, the N.R.A and many other groups support this stance. As long as our government does not decide to remove the United States constitution as the rule of law we will NEVER fire on an American soldier. NEVER!! And if another country ever tries to do so we will stand behind our Military as the last line of defense. God bless, Kingfish
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
Wow is that a load of crap,

1 . Equipment in disarray , not here pal.

2. Insist on old out dated equipment? you got to kidding me man. We get the best the government will allow us to own legally. I have a bravo built AR-15 . We would own rocket launchers if they were legal.

3. pyramid? W e have the same structure as the the Army. only fewer classes. Level 1 rifleman, level 2 rifleman (fire team leader) group leader or colonel as the army would call him. Division leaders and corps leaders.

4, 5 6 and 7 are all pure bull **** except the part about Iraq and Afganistan vet being more up to date. My group leader is a veteran of I raq, the first war.

But again this Idea that we are going to take on the Unites states military is a fallacy. We have zero intention to do this. Our only mission is defense of the Constitution. The Military will divide if that is ever an issue. Oathkeepers, the N.R.A and many other groups support this stance. As long as our government does not decide to remove the United States constitution as the rule of law we will NEVER fire on an American soldier. NEVER!! And if another country ever tries to do so we will stand behind our Military as the last line of defense. God bless, Kingfish
I didnt know you were from GA. I dont know you. I dont know your group. However, everything i said in my post was 100% fact. You guys may be awesome special forces, ranger, judo, ninja killers but the guys i met down here were not.
Old 12-14-2009, 02:52 PM
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Fight the military heads up you die. There is no night to hide in. It's allways day from the eyes of an apache.

You fight a war against the government by fighting things that don't shoot hellfire missiles back atcha. Whole lotta critical inftastructure out there with nothing but a few cameras. Sure would cost alot of money to replace it, repair it, and garrison it to keep it from getting... shall we say... vandalized... again.

LEO's and our Soliders are us, and on our side. Fighting them, killing them, and being killed by them don't do a thing to the wicked politicos that are sending them out to die for a scumball agenda.

It's all about the money. Think about real creative ways to cost alot of it, by targeting things. Expensive, critical things. Infrastructure.

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Old 12-14-2009, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urban View Post
I didnt know you were from GA. I dont know you. I dont know your group. However, everything i said in my post was 100% fact. You guys may be awesome special forces, ranger, judo, ninja killers but the guys i met down here were not.
Do you know Enforcer? I do. He is your local leader his name is Jimmy. Im sure he will enjoy talking to you.

http://www.freepowerboards.com/usmil...s-forum-9.html

Last edited by Kingfish; 12-14-2009 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KR555 View Post
When the "FHTF", seem like American militia doesn't seem well trained, using conventional tactics. For me this seem like a death trap trying to hold off a US Federal Army well trained, well equipped, all the air support they have, and are dominated on conventional warfare. So in my view old school conventional tactics, winner goes to the one with better technology.

Guerrilla tactics, it's known to be unbeatable from Vietnam to IRAQ and etc if i have not name.

Most American non military, have access to old technology, best we have are semi-auto rifle.

My Opinion Guerrilla tactics well beat US government tyrants.
All I will say is this: If your militia is training on how to fight 4th generation warfare with 4th generation warfare, your just training for an expensive death needlessly.

Start studying the in's and out's of 5th generation warfare. Touching up with many tactical books in addition to this will put you in the correct mindset for the type of activities you can look forward to should the modern militia ever be needed.
Old 12-14-2009, 08:36 PM
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Anyone who thinks they'd stand a chance vs military has got another thing coming. Maybe they've watched Red Dawn one too many times or they've never realized that America, with mostly flatlands and millions of miles of paved roads is a tank + heli commander's dream. Either way, forget about it.

Militias might work if there were no night vision, guided artillery, air support, armoured vehicles, etc. Well, there is. Sorry.

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Fight the military heads up you die. There is no night to hide in. It's allways day from the eyes of an apache.

You fight a war against the government by fighting things that don't shoot hellfire missiles back atcha. ...
Well said^^
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:13 PM
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What makes you think that the Armed forces aren't going to suffer massive mutiny in the face of bombing downtown America? The human factor is the unknown. We as free Americans may have armored divisions on our side after all. Don't underestimate true Americans, we are proud and powerful with constitutional morals.

Live free or die.

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Old 12-14-2009, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
Wow is that a load of crap,

1 . Equipment in disarray , not here pal.

2. Insist on old out dated equipment? you got to kidding me man. We get the best the government will allow us to own legally. I have a bravo built AR-15 . We would own rocket launchers if they were legal.

3. pyramid? W e have the same structure as the the Army. only fewer classes. Level 1 rifleman, level 2 rifleman (fire team leader) group leader or colonel as the army would call him. Division leaders and corps leaders.

4, 5 6 and 7 are all pure bull **** except the part about Iraq and Afganistan vet being more up to date. My group leader is a veteran of I raq, the first war.

But again this Idea that we are going to take on the Unites states military is a fallacy. We have zero intention to do this. Our only mission is defense of the Constitution. The Military will divide if that is ever an issue. Oathkeepers, the N.R.A and many other groups support this stance. As long as our government does not decide to remove the United States constitution as the rule of law we will NEVER fire on an American soldier. NEVER!! And if another country ever tries to do so we will stand behind our Military as the last line of defense. God bless, Kingfish
Reply]
They already did it, have you not been paying ANY attention to whats been going on the last 18 months?
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:03 PM
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Perhaps it would be easier to define what type of breakdown we're talking about in regard to militia involvement and/or potential success or failure.

If we're talking about martial law being imposed on the citizens by the government....Militias would be the last thing I would want direct involvement with. Any militia or rogue type para-military group would probably be on the watch-list of every government alphabet agency in existance and high priority on rounding up said members.

I would suspect in this regard that anyone with registered firearms would be priority listed as well.

Yes, there may be gov. military personnel who may turn renegade and align with the citizenry, but ultimately the success of any militia or guerrilla type faction fighting these odds would be few & far between.

Such units or factions may prove to be successful if they are able to maintain longevity in an underground status or society using terroristic or guerrilla type assults on government personnel/facilities.

In a all out collaspe of our government/societal structure as in the former Yugoslavia, the main body of the military may splinter off into renegade units seizing whatever weaponry is available to them. Citizens would more than likely be recriuted, either voluntarily or involuntarily accordingly.

As you can imagine, this would result in a violent and bloody civil war where goals or objectives may be as basic as fighting/protecting small territorial areas.

Just my .02
Old 12-14-2009, 10:06 PM
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Do it like the apache.Create an insurgency,hit and run.Never fight against a standing army on a battlefield.Even if it means only shooting one troop and running away for few days.
Old 12-14-2009, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kingfish View Post
Im a member of the Michigan Militia. West Michigan Volunteers . We have no intention of ingaging any United States Military in Battle. I would hope to be standing behind them with their back. Most of our member are serving now or are ex military. We are a neat blend of Army regulars, special forces, Navy , airforce and Marines. Not to mention a lot of citizens just wanting to be ready.

This Idea that we stand against the government is complete falacy. We do no such thing. We would get our asses kicked by any regular army that had full auto weapons, air power and armored divisions. We dont have full auto weapons,well most of us dont. We dont have tanks, well most of us don't. what little Navel forces we could muster are small gun boats armed with light semi auto .50 caliber rifles like the Barret and small aircraft like single engine planes. W e could never hope to engage any Military in an out right toe to toe fight.




W e believe that if ever it gets bad enough that we are fighting each other the military will divide as it did before. States taking sides. You will not see Militia opposing United States Military in any way. If we did have to defend our country from someone attempting to remove our Constitution we would have to fight a Guerilla war. Hit and run to the woods type of stuff. W e train in these types of scenarios. Small teams using cover and blending into the population. One of my cammo patterns is a jogging suit ha ha ha . Another is a homeless guy with an old beat up trench coat. Then of course is my woodland uniform, real tree, Mossy oak, snow cammo etc.

Dont under estimate us but don,t label us as anti government because we are not . The Militia is the last line of defense of our Constitution. The armed population. Kingfish
Glad you brought up the cover and concealment as its not always about camo and cargo pants.
Old 12-14-2009, 10:38 PM
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we might not have the equipment to fight a conventional force... but a successful raid here, an ambush there... pretty soon you will have some nice fightin irons!


-MadMike
Old 12-14-2009, 10:42 PM
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Guerilla warfare is the only way to face a standing army, and it is surprisingly effective with good leadership. Poor weaponry isn't an insurmountable problem, it can be upgraded by seizing it from the enemy, as all guerillas have done in the past.
The US is the second army fighting in Afghanistan, and the guerillas are still going strong. They don't have to win, they just have to endure until the other side gets discouraged and goes home, the way the Viet Cong did. The same would be true here. Governments give up because they can't afford to fight indefinitely. The longer the fight goes on, the more the government loses credibility and popular support...if they have popular support in the first place.
There are always troops who go AWOL and join the other side. This is especially true when the government fights its own citizens.
Also, it is expensive for government to run a war anywhere. How much money does the government have left?
Old 12-14-2009, 10:44 PM
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HOUSTON- we have another WHAT'S OPSEC thread...

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