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Old 11-26-2009, 05:12 PM
AKpredator AKpredator is offline
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Default Review: S&W M&P 9mm



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I could care less if a gun is made from plastic, steel or alloy. I don't really care where it is made, although Made in USA is always good! What's important is that they have total reliability, good durability, possess decent accuracy, and that they handle fast and sure.

Now, I mostly carry 1911's, because the design allows for modifications to suit your needs. But it's not for everyone and I like and use other guns. I love my Glock 34; it's the easiest pistol to shoot well out of the box; it shoots and works just as well as my $2500 Wilson 1911. My Sig P220 and I have an affinity for each other. I have never missed with it... ever.

But Glocks sling my own blood in my face from slide bite, Sig's don't handle very fast and my thumb always hits the slide release lever. Most other handguns are variations on the same two themes.

For the past year, I have been fooling with a S&W M&P 9mm in the Pro Series configuration. I don't carry it but I have loaned it out for several classes and closely monitored the gun's performance. I have also spent some quality time with the standard 9 and the Compact 9.

Here is my take:

Tech specs are here: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...egory_rn=15711

M&P is well made. They seem to be durable enough for service and hard use. Todd Green at www.pistol-training.com has put them through 50,000 rd durability tests.

Universally well liked by well-known trainers and authorities and everyone who has tried mine seemed to think it was made for them. Some call it the "Comfortable Glock".

They have splendid reliability and will function with most any 9mm. I do not say all but I have yet to see a notable problem from over 20 different makes and weights. My favorite 115 grain FMJ w/ 4.2 grains of Titegroup is running flawlessly.

Flat profile, sensible controls located in accessible but not conflicting areas. This allows for maximum handling efficiency under duress.

The option of a thumb safety, strong or ambi, placed similarly to the 1911. This is a great feature for police, military and others who like a manual safety.

With the interchangeable backstraps, it will fit any hand that still has an index finger. One of my minions, who is 5'0 and has tiny hands and fingers, handles it fine.

Hallelujah! They finally made a polymer service pistol with an extended tang. No more slide bite for knuckle draggers like me.

Cost: As always, this will be a factor for most anyone. S&W has a 40% mark up for distributors and many of their guns. The M&P is comparable, even favorable, in expense to a Glock in the same configuration. Roughly the same price, better ergonomics and better shooting than the standard XD. Mags are cheap, reliable and tough. Very smooth surfaced as well. They are $550 around here, $600 w/ night Sights.

Reliability: No real problems, yet. Some reloads are a bit touchy. Like anything mass produced, you will see problems eventually. But I would say, the Glock 9mm has a slight edge on the M&P. The XD does not.

Accuracy: the one I am using, and three others my friends are running all will shot under 2" @ 25 yards. I personally have fired groups off hand of less than 3" for 5 shots at that distance from the standard 9 and the Pro models. From barricade rest, it's not even fair. Equal to my Glock 34 and STI Trojan 9mm.

Durability: Seems good. I have seen two guns go back for broken extractor and feedway stoppages. These came from guns shooting lots of Wolf and reloads and being used very hard by competitive shooters. Service was excellent, fast and no further problems. The finish is not as durable as the Glock, even though it's stainless underneath. I have seen three different guns with surface corrosion. Not as good as a Glock Tennifer.

Handling/Ergonomics: This is a very fast handling, fast shooting handgun with good controls. It is at least equal to the 1911 and because of the tang extension and interchangeable backstraps, superior to the Glock.

Trigger: If I can't safely squeeze out .18 splits with perfect accuracy, recoil control and a smooth trigger with limited over-travel and re-set, then the gun isn't for me. This baby does all of that and more. The trigger is tuneable, smooth and consistant. Over-travel and re-set is minimal. Every bit the equal of anything out there. I can consistantly do Bill Drills in 1.85 seconds from a standard kydex hip holster. As good as it gets.

All of the above is subject to disagreements, debate and lemon laws.

Here is what one cannot argue with:

In the past month, three of my students have qualified at the Master Class level with an M&P 9 Pro Series. These are good shooters who have all been stuck in Expert for 2-5 years.


One is a dedicated Glock shooter who could not quite get his accuracy under control, even though he is a potent 3 Gun competitor with immensely strong hands. 45 yrs old, Married with kids. Electrican.

Another has gone through 5-6 different handguns in the last two years trying to find the perfect gun but has been hampered with reliability, accuracy and control issues. He likes his Trojan 9mm but always threw a couple shots. 38, Married with kids, IT Specialist.

Just last night:

A former artillery officer, 30 years old and decent shape. He has but a single Larry Vickers class under his belt and has been to only a few matches. He dropped 9 points on the 90 round IDPA classifier for a 94 second time. He previously shot a custom 10mm and a Glock 19 and has been practicing with me for a couple of years, albeit, somewhat inconsistantly. He's married w/ kids, Corporate Sales.

That makes 7 in our club of less than 25 regular shooters, including 2 of the 10 IDPA 5 Gun Masters.

The M&P is a winner folks.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:22 PM
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my problem with any high cap typle pistol was the grip for me . i guess i am one of those guys who has short funky hands with long and fat typle fringers along with a couple of broken fringer on the hands make a fat grip pistol hard for me to shoot sometimes ..that way i allways loved the 1911 style pistol with slimline grip. for that very reason...

but when we did the three month test of the s&w.m.p.40.cal with the thumb safety it was a not a bad pistol ..the guy from s&w was on the line when we where shooting saw i was haveing a little bit of a problem with the one grip baclstaps. and he stoped me and ask me to clear my weapon and hand it to him and.took one of the grips inserts and shaved it down intill my hand was comfortable with grip on the pistol and it was ugly as heck but it worked for my after that my scores went up on the range just like i was shooting my 1911 pistol..

he took out his pocket knife and shaved off areas on the insert intill it fit my hand ..i have to say that good customer service there..he did that for a couple of people on the line..just a little shaveing here and there ..that want made to right the review for my people and showed the pistol in a good light ..for up till then i was not really careing for the pistol ..

i did ask the guy if you could get the model i had in 45.acp ..he told yeah but you have to have it in 40.cal sorry he said laughing about the remake i made..
Old 11-26-2009, 09:50 PM
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I love my little M&P 9c...it's been a solid gun so far, but I only have 7xx rounds down it at the moment. I cc and oc'd it all year so far it's a great little gun it hasn't left my side since I bought it....I'm putting a 40 or 45c in the budget for next year.
Old 11-26-2009, 11:19 PM
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i think that is the pistol we might be going to in comeing year..we are looking to replace the pistol that we have ..that what in the grape vine right now ..
Old 11-27-2009, 02:00 AM
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The MP's are great pistols but I think that Glock still has an edge in reference to durability and maintenance. And I always stress im not a big fan of Glock.

We looked at the mp but at the time if something broke the gun had to go back to the factory for the repair. Glock sells parts cheap and repairs are easily made in minutes. Did smith change this policy?

I just got rid of my personal mp-9 because of this and replaced it with a Glock 17. It bumbed me out because the mp felt much better in my hand and is made here. I had zero problems...it was perfect. I think Smith has something here but found there repair policy unaceptable. I loved the MP and liked it much better than Glock. My only complaint....repair parts!

I feel like im bashing on S&W because of some other posts ive made and that is not my intention just my recent experience.
Old 11-27-2009, 02:09 PM
MarksInnerDemon MarksInnerDemon is offline
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Glock demands that any repairs must be done by a Glock Armorer... Even though the 10 yearold sitting next to me probably could fix it. I know S&W has put out lots of parts for older guns and I assume they will continue to do so. Don't quote me on that though.
Old 11-27-2009, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritepath View Post
I love my little M&P 9c...
I think they are the most accurate little compact out there. Only issues I have is the absent tang extension and they are in between a glock 19 and 26 for size but that's not a bad thing. One very accurate little pistol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hank2222 View Post
i think that is the pistol we might be going to in comeing year..we are looking to replace the pistol that we have ..that what in the grape vine right now ..
Some folks up here are looking at them in 45 ACP right now. Larry Vickers, a well known trainer, thinks 'the
M&P might be the pistol of the future... if they don't **** it up." It certainly feels good in the hands and I like the thiumb safety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flag2442 View Post
The MP's are great pistols but I think that Glock still has an edge in reference to durability and maintenance. And I always stress im not a big fan of Glock.
I agree, the Glock has an edge on most every handgun out there for parts and simplicity of maintenance. I learned the Armorers Course in like 2 hours.
Fantastic gun for service pistol... and I hate looking at them. Ooogly!
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Old 11-27-2009, 04:01 PM
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like i said in the one post i have funky hands short hand size and long fat fringers ..so it allways been a problem with the fat grip typle of semi automatics pistol..plus i hate the trigger system on the glock saight out of the box the worst trigger pull of any semi autos out there..

the thumb safety model was the biggest saleing point on the review of weapon to be used as a duty weapon..for own personal idea ..police depts should never issuse a weapon that point and shoot only typles for duty use ..for you are more likely to get shot with your own weapon ..so let me have a few seconds time frame of the bad guy trying to figure out how to make the weapon work so i can to the back up weapon or knife and least try to get something done befoe i get shot with my own weapon ..

i will find next month when i report into the new place for work ..so i check back then....
Old 11-27-2009, 05:02 PM
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I would never care to carry a weapon on duty with a manual safety and I do not consider it a safety issue. Personal preference.

Glock triggers do suck....but it is easily overcome.

I think Glocks biggest safety issue is the dissasembly process which sw has corrected as far as im concerned. Yeah I know follow the safety issues and nothing happens....but as little as people train things happen all the time.

The issue with sw parts and repairs is a problem for most agencies. If a pistol breaks and the agency is not provided repair parts and armorer training and must send it back to sw we must qualify the officer with the broken pistol on a new pistol before they can go out carrying. And when the original gun came back in im sure we would have to qualify them on that one too again for a paper trail. That is a problem and one that sw must fix if they want to be competative.

I think smith has a more well rounded pistol with more options and if they marketed it properly they could steal more customers and agencies back from Glock. I think Glock see's this and the generation 4 will be more competative with sw features.
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Old 11-27-2009, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flag2442 View Post
I would never care to carry a weapon on duty with a manual safety and I do not consider it a safety issue. Personal preference.

Glock triggers do suck....but it is easily overcome.

I think Glocks biggest safety issue is the dissasembly process which sw has corrected as far as im concerned. Yeah I know follow the safety issues and nothing happens....but as little as people train things happen all the time.

The issue with sw parts and repairs is a problem for most agencies. If a pistol breaks and the agency is not provided repair parts and armorer training and must send it back to sw we must qualify the officer with the broken pistol on a new pistol before they can go out carrying. And when the original gun came back in im sure we would have to qualify them on that one too again for a paper trail. That is a problem and one that sw must fix if they want to be competative.

I think smith has a more well rounded pistol with more options and if they marketed it properly they could steal more customers and agencies back from Glock. I think Glock see's this and the generation 4 will be more competative with sw features.
Glock does make 3lb triggers if that will help.
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Old 11-27-2009, 06:52 PM
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Yeah im going to put one in my personal gun but for work mine have to have the 5 but we used to have to carry the 8.
Old 11-27-2009, 07:22 PM
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They still can't beat the slimness of the 1911.
Old 11-27-2009, 07:23 PM
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Pass for me.

http://gunnuts.net/2009/04/30/la-she...ls-mp-pistols/
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:10 PM
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WOW!

Whelp, I guess we will have to see how S&W handles it.
Old 11-28-2009, 08:19 PM
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My first pistol was the S&W Sigma in .40S&W.
While that one is a low cost pistol, most call it a "cheap" one, it has been very reliable and durable for me. I've put several hundred factory and several hundred reloads through it with zero malfunctions at all.

Earlier this year I purchased an S&W M&P40C as a second pistol. I did have a problem with this one, the magazine latch eroded rapidly, after three full mags, such that a magazine would not stay in the well at all. I called S&W and they sent me repair parts immediately.
I made the repair, quite easily due to the design of this pistol, and I've been quite satisfied with it since. It is my go to for carry and can be a secondary if I decide to carry the Sigma.
The M&Ps are top drawer pistols in my book!
Old 12-13-2009, 12:10 AM
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My M&P9 was my first pistol. I have had zero issues with it. I have just over 1,000 rounds thru it. I have since bought a Sigma 9VE and actually like it better than the M&P I guess I like the trigger on the Sigma because it is long and heavy, but smooth after 1,000 dry fires, like a DA revolver trigger which I have really gotten the hang of. It is "cheap" compared to the M&P for sure. I don't have much to compare it to but the M&P seems to be a quality firearm and I think S&W has a winner here.
Old 11-19-2010, 10:11 AM
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It's been a year now and I see them at every match I shoot and every course I teach. Not always 9mm's but some sort of M&P. I never pass up an oppurtunity to shoot a few rounds through them, even a match now and again. Here is my take:

-The 45 ACP is the best shooter of all M&P's I have tried. It tolerates reloads very nicely and it shoots as well as I can or better. I can't say that about any of the 9mm's I have tried, even with Storm Lake barrels and other mods. With hot ammunition, it seems to exhibit better control than any factory handgun I have tried and it's better than many custom 1911's.

-A buddy has a Compact that I was thoroughly impressed with. It seems to be the exception, though. Other haven't done as well but they function fine.

-The M&P Pro 9 is a very fast handling handgun. If S&W can fiure out how to make it shoot better, it would take over Production and SSP divisions in IDPA, IPSC and USPSA. Right now, those are both ruled by the Glock 34.

-9mm's have a real intolerance to reloads. I see repeated problems with stuck casings. I haven't really seen any problems with factory ammo.

-4.2 Grains of Titegroup and 124 grain Montana Gold!

-Some initial concerns over severe malfunctions were the result of garage gunsmithing.

-Many options are available for different trigger pulls from aftermarket companies like Apex Custom. LEM types to 2.5 lb match triggers. I don't really have a preference other than it be smooth and manageable. My 45 ACP sucks but it's not hard to get used to.

-The magazines seem to be pretty good quality, so far. I have a handful of 14 rd extension mags for the 45 ACP that I rather like and they are stainless. M&P mags aren't quite as good as a Glock or USP but they don't seem to come apart much. I don't really like the elongated, curvy base pads on the 45 but that's a small gripe.

-The Warren Tactical rear sight is definitely my favorite. White outline Tritium front is all I need.

-The ergonomics are very, very good on this whole series. Controls are easy to access and appropriately spaced and ambidextrous.

-I haven't tried a thumb safety model yet. Waiting for them to offer the 45 in the Pro configuration.
Old 11-19-2010, 11:21 PM
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Since my last post on this, I've become a M&P armorer. And with a number of engineering changes, my opinion has come around.

Parts are available, it may take a couple of days but you can get them now.

I'm still not a plastic gun fan but the M&P has made an impact with me.
The design is very similar in many respects to the Glock, but actually has a great many improvements over the square child.

A local department went to it in .40 caliber, from the stainless Sig 220 and the scores went up by something like 50%. For an issue gun that needs to fit a number of people, I think it's a much better choice than the Glock.
Old 11-20-2010, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
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Since my last post on this, I've become a M&P armorer. And with a number of engineering changes, my opinion has come around.
How would you rate their durabilty?
Old 11-20-2010, 06:22 AM
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Thank you. I'll keep it in mind and check it out.
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