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Shotgun Forum Mossberg, Winchester, Remington, Benelli....

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Old 10-29-2009, 11:13 PM
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Default Has Mossberg quality surpassed Remington?



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Finish? Internal parts quality? other features? 590 model best?
Old 10-30-2009, 02:40 AM
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Probably not. The Rem 870 Police Magnum is tops but it's twice the price.

The 590A1 is pretty dang good. Bead sight is fine, XS tritium is better. The Ghost Rings sights are nice, especially if you do a lot of slug shooting like me.

A Rem is better suited to pistol grip stock options, because of the safety location. I honestly don't have a preference, but most cops use a pistol grip (Speedfeed or Knoxx) now along with all the feds, and most of them have gone to 14" 5+1 models.

If I had to choose and had some coin, I would get a Vanged out Rem 870 w/ Surefire LED forearm light and a Knoxx collapsible stock.

Out of the box, it would be a 590A1.
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:05 PM
wyorover wyorover is offline
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I havent had a mosberg in years seems like i liked it ok. but now its all remington for me
or a wilson/rem 870. you dont see much about the wilson on this site
a pic of mine i couldnt pic a color so i got 2
Old 11-01-2009, 09:38 PM
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I just put in and order for a Mossberg 500. I will know what its like vs my Winchester 1300 Defender I had. That was a 20ga and wanted a 12ga.

I looked at the Rem 870 express but for the price the 500 I couldnt beat. I also read there are some problems with the finish on the express models so I just went Mossberg.

I think it all comes down to what you want now or what you want to do later. I wanted 7+1 now at a good price and I couldnt pass up the $296 bucks on the 500 from Buds Gun Shop.
Old 11-01-2009, 09:59 PM
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only prob i have with the moss. is the inability to get mag extensions. with out buying a hole kit with barrel and all. other than that. no problems.
Old 11-01-2009, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannalive View Post
only prob i have with the moss. is the inability to get mag extensions. with out buying a hole kit with barrel and all. other than that. no problems.
I just bought a Mag extension from Brownells today for $38.00 and the spring for $5.00. You don't have to buy a kit. MidwayUSA is a little cheaper but they aren't in stock.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=712123

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=348588

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1...E_TUBE__8_SHOT

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...SPRING__8_SHOT
Old 11-02-2009, 03:14 AM
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Umm, Dan....to use those 7+1 mag tubes you listed, you have to also buy the 7+1 barrel to go along with them. A standard 5+1 barrel won't fit a 7+1 tube.

As I tell everyone, though, you can buy a 7+1 barrel and tube for approx $70-80 if you watch gunbroker etc. You can sell your 5+1 barrel and tube for the same thing. So if you want to extend a 5+1 500A to a 7+1 Persuader, it's pretty much a freebie. I also suggest you keep both barrels and tubes, but that's up to you.

rich
Old 11-08-2009, 11:07 AM
Katrina Guy Katrina Guy is offline
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It seems quality, across the board even with long standing reputable name companies, has taken a back burner these days. One of the reasons is to compete with cheaper foreign products whether it be firearms or most anything else. SO, tell you something you didn't already know,...just commenting on the frustration we're probably all going through as consumers these days.
Go back in time prior to the introduction of the Remington 870 Express and this thread topic would probably be laughable. Now it's possibly ligit, except as a poster commented, the Police Model shotgun.
Old 11-10-2009, 01:12 PM
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I have used the 500, 590, and 870 for work purposes. As far as firearms instruction, I prefer the Mossbergs due to the fact that the shooter can see the safety and its position when the shooter is on the line and weapon pointed safely downrange. I also can see the position of the safety as the instructor when the shooters are on the line. Not all police officers are gun guys and when they can actually visualize the safety while the weapon is in a safe downrange position, it is a good thing for everybody. I have nothing against the 870's but I think for the casual police user or casual civilian user who may only pick up a shotgun twice a year, the 500 or 590 is better. As an armorer, the Mossberg is very easy to clean and maintain and I haven't had any major problems with any of our Mossbergs. I have also never personally had any problems with my personal Remingtons or Mossbergs.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:05 PM
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I think the majority of you share my sentiment when I say that I honestly don't care what a weapon looks like (or any machine for that matter) as much as I care about the quality of the internal mechanisms.

Mossberg has always been known to make high quality, and long lasting parts which in tern of course create a well rounded, durable weapon.

Remington is known for its amazing weaponry as well, but for me personally, I prefer Mossberg.
Old 11-11-2009, 04:24 PM
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from what I've heard, a parkerized Mossberg 590 5+1 or 8+1 w/ ghost ring sights is the way to go, but I haven't been able to confirm this with my own experiences
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Old 11-19-2009, 07:08 PM
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At cheaper than dirt they sell a breaching barrel for the rem.870 made by mossberg .
Old 11-19-2009, 07:59 PM
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You really won't beat an 870 express tacs out of the box with the ext 6+1 mag tube and Knoxx... around $400 for 20ga or $475 for 12ga. That gives you about $200 in parts/labor for only about $100 more than the guns themselves.

I have 870 express tac 20ga for a couple years, Wingmaster 12ga classic my dad gave me that I've used in skeet and hunting for close to 10 seasons now, and a decent condition 870 police riot 12ga gun I couldn't pass up for only $200 at a show about 5yrs ago. I have to say that I like them all quite a bit. Not one jam or FTE in probably 6-8k rounds combined (I'll forgive one FTE from the police gun since it was used and I rushed it to the range before I had cleaned it well) - and that includes many friends of various exp levels I have taken to the range (some definitely not the best of shooting stance/grip, but still no FTEs or jams). My next will probably be a marine mag 870 to replace whichever one of mine craps out first, but the ones I have have shown zero signs of breaking down even though I only do a 5min field strip of them with CLP every 3 times to the range and only totally clean them (brushes, oil internals/trigger group, etc) about once a year (usually before hunting season).

Ask any serious (skeet/trap club) shooter, and you'll find Mossbergs just aren't as accurate. If they were so good, then why do you think they have to appeal to "HD" beginners with their pistol grip, heat shield, side saddle, etc etc junky packages? Simple answer: subpar product unless you are going for looks/cost. Yes, I've shot them, but I don't like the safety and slide release locations... firearm safety is there for a reason, - shouldn't be easy to flip on accident or while casing the gun. In the end, a man fights (or shoots at the range) with what he has and practice makes perfect, but all other factors equal, a serious skeet shooting or 3 gun match with a Moss vs a Rem will usually turn out to be a cat versus a pit bull. Don't take my word for it; go to your local private shotgun club, pay the day pass fee, shoot around, and observe/ask the club vets and pros. Likewise, check out used gun prices at shows or Gunbroker; quality holds its value (and used Mossys are usually dirt cheap compared to used Rems).

Mossbergs are *ok* entry level shotguns for the price, but when Rems are only about $50-100 more for significantly better action, accuracy, trigger grouping parts, and reliability, I'd say go for them. If you just shoot for fun, then almost any shotgun is accurate enough at stationary targets <25yd, so get whatever is cheap (Moss, Daly, NEP, Escort, etc) and mised well shoot cheap ammo and clean minimally also since the guns are so cheap to replace that they really aren't worth spending much time or $ to care for anyways. If you shoot any more seriously in 3 gun, skeet, etc (or ever plan to), you will find that Rems or Brownings (they don't really make tacs though) are usually quite accurate... and the higher end guns, esp Berettas or Benellis, are almost always dead nuts. JMO

IMO, it goes like this Benelli > Beretta/Rem > Browning/CZ >> Moss > Escort/NEP/Daly/etc. Saigas are fun as ****, but they are not in the same category or meant for the same purpose IMO. Unless you're an extremely serious or pro shooter (in which case you'd get cheap/free guns anyways), the Benellis probably aren't that much better to justify costing twice as much (both the gun and parts/accessories), but Rem vs Mossy is a landslide with the pricing being very close anyways. Just like the Rem 700 rifles, the 870 shotguns are not the absolute best, but for the $, you really can't find better quality or lower maintainence guns right out of the box.

Last edited by slyguy; 11-19-2009 at 08:35 PM..
Old 11-19-2009, 10:25 PM
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Pick wha you want I chose Remmy.
Old 11-19-2009, 10:37 PM
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Mossberg's have come allot closer, if not surpassed the 870 express price point wise as well as relibility and durability.


I've heard too much crap lately about express's have this problem or that, inclusing insta rusting.

I prefer the slide release and safety of a Mossberg anyway.


It's really only fair the compare 870 Express to Mossberg 500. By the time you get into police Magnums, Wingmasters, you;re in Browning, Benelli, etc territory.

The God's honest truth, I'd rather have a browning than either.
Old 11-19-2009, 10:43 PM
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I have a Mossberg and for me they are the best Shotgun. I prefer the control placements. You can get to the safety or the slide release without having to turn the whole gun around.
Old 11-19-2009, 11:28 PM
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I wanted a shotgun for home defense and started narrowing down my list of possible choices.

Remington was immediately crossed off the list after learning that the slide release is located at the front of the trigger guard. This of course means you have to do the unacceptable and remove your finger from the trigger to press the slide release. I will never take any Remington for home defense seriously so long as the slide release is in that god awful location.

With the Mossberg 500 the slide release is located to the rear of the trigger guard where my trigger hands middle finger can easily press. I can maintain my finger on the trigger while the slide release is pressed.

For that reason alone the Mossberg has the superior Home defense/combat design. My choice was the 8 shot Mossberg 500 Persuader.

Here's another guy's take on them who has put more time into comparing the two than I have: http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/870.html
Old 11-20-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptophylaxis View Post
I wanted a shotgun for home defense...
And that makes you exactly the sort of beginner that Mossberg markets to. There is nothing wrong with that use of a gun, and it will probably serve your needs; as I said, almost any reliable shotgun will be accurate at short ranges. Now, forget the range practice... be sure to just spend all your $ to buy the pistol grip kit, heat shield, muzzle break, optics, side saddle, and slings with your gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptophylaxis View Post
... Remington was immediately crossed off the list after learning that the slide release is located at the front of the trigger guard. This of course means you have to do the unacceptable and remove your finger from the trigger to press the slide release...
How is this "unacceptable"? Are you seriously assuming you're gonna fire your 7+1 shells, dry fire the gun since you miscounted your shots, have more home invaders to shoot, reload, and then have to hit the slide release?? If you believe that, then you either need to A) stop playing so many video games where attackers take 5 shots and/or B) quit dealing drugs or whatever you are doing that makes you think a mob of armed attackers will decide to storm your house.

Fact of the matter is that the vast majority of violent crimes aren't home invasions, and most burglars will case their marks and be sure to hit your house when there's nobody home (vacation, working, etc). If you are home, they'd quickly sneak out to avoid jail and be able to burgularize another day. Unless you are really inviting trouble to your home with gangs/drugs/etc, then the vast majority of violent crimes against normal citizens take place out in the street/alley/parking lot/etc. Why would a criminal risk entering your turf and risk violent defense from guns/dogs/etc when there are tons of unarmed, alone, and much more vulnerable people to attack/rob out in the community? The violent home burglar theory makes very little sense (except maybe to Mossberg's target market), and that's why CCW handguns are many times more likely to protect you than a home shotgun (but that's an entirely different topic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptophylaxis View Post
... I can maintain my finger on the trigger while the slide release is pressed...
Please explain your logic in this (other than the rediculous 8+ shot situation above). If you want to spew the "I need to switch from buck to slugs since the attacker is now 50yds away" bull****, then you have already defended your home, are still within buckshot rane assuming you have an accurate shotgun, and shooting someone at that range means he's well off the limits your property in 90+% of American dwellings. At that range, it's called murder, not "defense," bud. Slugs are for deer hunting, not HD. If you really do want some slugs for HD for whatever reason (rural dwelling, reason to belive ninjas are coming, etc), then just do what some police teams do and stack your shotgun mag alternating buck and slug. That is infinitely more efficient and foolproof than the mall ninja side saddle stuff.

...I can probably count the number of times I've used the slide release on my guns, and I bet it's less than a dozen times in thousands of rounds. Basically the only time is when you're out hunting, chamber a round, don't see any game, and have to unload. At the range or skeet club, if you count your shots (which you should always do with any gun for purposes of your safety and that of others), then you will probably never need to use it. In either example, you don't want to fire when you are using the slide release, hence "safety feature."

I will say it again, but the slide release is a SAFETY feature. It should not be placed where it can be hit inadvertently. On Mossbergs, both the manual safety and slide release are placed in positions where they may be flipped on accident while your hands are in the shooting positions. On Remington 870, you could potentially engage/disengage the manual safety on accident, but it'd be awful hard... the slide release? No way, you need to take your trigger hand off the trigger group to depress the slide release. The whole point of that is so that you will never inadvertently shoot the gun if you miscounted rounds.

Last edited by slyguy; 11-20-2009 at 08:12 AM..
Old 11-20-2009, 12:06 PM
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Your same logic could apply to CCW pistols but that doesn't mean that I'm only going to carry a revolver because most incidents could be handled in 6 rounds.

IMO there's no justification for the poorly design slide placement of the Remington. You can call it a safety feature if you want to see it that way but I don't. Most of the topics on this site are pretty fantastic in a sense that they are unlikely to happen but we are prepared for them anyway. I have a BOB in my trunk that's unlikely to be needed. You can poke fun at that too, its the same logic.

The bottom line is I agree that any situation involving the slide release would be farther fetched than a standard home invasion but should it be required it would make a big difference.
Old 11-21-2009, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
I will say it again, but the slide release is a SAFETY feature. It should not be placed where it can be hit inadvertently.
So you stick it in the #1 place on a pump shotgun that can possibly be inadvertently hit? On the 870, it's OUTSIDE the trigger guard on the front of said trigger guard. If you brace the gun against a vertical wall, you can hit it. If you brace on a horizontal wall (car, couch, sandbag etc), you can hit it. If you hot reload, you can hit it (that's common). If you slide it into a scabbard, you can hit it. If you low crawl with it, you can hit it etc etc etc ad nauseum.

Btw, the safety on the Rem 870 is in pretty much the exact same location as the slide release on the Mossy except the 870 safety is on BOTH SIDES. I can't quite see how the Mossy slide release is so easy to hit while the 870 safety, which again, is on BOTH SIDES, is so hard to hit.

As an aside, though, I sat here for the past ten mins trying to flip the Mossy slide release and safety with the gun in various firing positions. With the weapon shouldered, with a conventional stock, you can't hit the slide release with your hands in firing position. You would have to release your grip and twist your wrist into a rather painful position to hit it with your thumb and your middle finger has to almost have an extra knuckle to reach. At port arms, your thumb can easily reach but that's not firing position. The safety can be flipped if you intentionally move your thumb up there but that's not in firing position....and trying to flip it with the web of my hand only gained me a raw spot on my hand

Just tried a Knoxx pistol grip. Same on the slide release, but the thumb can hit it if you twist your grip far enough left out of firing position. The safety can't be flipped with a pistol grip with your hands in firing position without forcing it against some hard surface like a wall.

Quote:
And that makes you exactly the sort of beginner that Mossberg markets to.
Huh?

rich
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